Politics So...Europe then?

[caLLous]

Still, strong work on making up your mind beforehand and sticking to your guns. You really showed those people you accuse of not being able to think for themselves!

You think Leave voters would've been like "oh well, we tried" had Remain won the vote? No, because both sides have beliefs and the fact that the vote went one way or the other does not change those beliefs. I still disagree with the decision, I think it's fucking daft but it's going to happen. And I also absolutely lack confidence in the people in charge of the negotiations.

 

[Gwadien]

Has anyone noticed that the most of the Brexit campaign Facebook groups are on a campaign of 'remove Sadiq Khan as Mayor of London, because of his views on Brexit and Trump?'

His views on Brexit and Trump? Bullshit, because he's Muslim.

I'd also like to point out that on social media (you know, the platform which has far more relevance than the traditional media) is far more right-leaning, and that spurts out a lot of bullshit.

 

[Raven]

Still, strong work on making up your mind beforehand and sticking to your guns. You really showed those people you accuse of not being able to think for themselves!

That doesn't even make sense. I changed my mind based on information, that information is that libtards are desperately sore losers. That is the point, people should be open to change their mind...

I made my mind up at the polling booth, it was pretty important and was not something I was willing to make a hard decision on until the last minute. LOTS of bullshit was flying from both sides, in equal measure.

 

[caLLous]

You made up your mind about the super-important issue, then the results were announced and other people who'd also made up their minds about the super-important issue didn't agree with the outcome. So, fuck the super-important issue, you thought you'd just troll the people who you agreed with 24 hours earlier and spend the next 8 months finding them "hilarious". Got it.

 

[Job]

There is little debate about the downside of staying in the EU..imagine if Farage was pro EU and was campaigning to join it...he would be destroyed by all sides for wanting to join such a basketcase of economies, debt, inequality, unchecked immigration..
Forget Brexit and spend a bit of time considering how utterly fucked up the Eurozone is.

 

[caLLous]

I wouldn't join it now either but I think it's batshit crazy to be walking away. Basically chucking 40 years of international relations in the bin and starting over, with no guarantees of anything. It could be wonderful, it could set the UK back decades on the international stage, it'll probably be somewhere in between.

 

[caLLous]

I could find several occasions in this thread alone where you and similar morons stone walled any debate or thought simply because "an expert" had said something, therefore it must be true...that's the point, you are too fucking stupid to think for yourself, you can only regurgitate what the media have told you to.

You and your late edits. There really isn't much point replying to you before the edit timer runs out, just in case you add something. Impossible

I've shared articles with opinions of "experts" maybe, but you loudly proclaimed that the Pound would bounce back to 1.45 USD within a few weeks of the vote. It then plummeted further and hasn't been over 1.28 USD since early October. Brilliant foresight, you really have your finger on the pulse. And then, for the most part, all you've done since then is smugly mock Remain voters and make snarky little comments in agreement when other, better-versed Leave voters post.

Ignoring your trashy insult (seriously, what's up with it being ok for you to be a complete dick to people and then you run away crying when it happens to you?), I'm sorry I don't conform to your ridiculously inaccurate stereotype but my mind was made up from day one, from my own experiences and with my own opinions.

 

[Job]

I wouldn't join it now either but I think it's batshit crazy to be walking away. Basically chucking 40 years of international relations in the bin and starting over, with no guarantees of anything. It could be wonderful, it could set the UK back decades on the international stage, it'll probably be somewhere in between.

There are no guarantees either way and it's bets off for Le Penn winning in France..I doubt it myself!, but you know...Trump.
If she did win, there would be nothing left to leave.

 

[Deebs]

I am still glad I voted to leave. Totally fed up with our current crop of politicians aka cunts. The only thing I am worried about is the breakup of the UK.

 

[caLLous]

I am still glad I voted to leave. Totally fed up with our current crop of politicians aka cunts. The only thing I am worried about is the breakup of the UK.

What on earth makes you think that aspect is going to improve post-Brexit? If anything the situation will deteriorate because (like it or not) there will be no oversight from Brussels.

 

[Raven]

Ignoring your trashy insult (seriously, what's up with it being ok for you to be a complete dick to people

But I am not a complete dick to people, just you. I treat people exactly as they treat me. You seem to have had a problem with me for some time, following me around with little snipes, no idea why, some sort of infatuation maybe? Bizarre really. There are plenty of remainers and EU supporters of remain that I get on with too.

Yeah, I was wrong about the USD bouncing back, happy (or not!) to admit it...but then I am capable of changing my mind based on evidence.

 

[Deebs]

What on earth makes you think that aspect is going to improve post-Brexit? If anything the situation will deteriorate because (like it or not) there will be no oversight from Brussels. Expect draconian surveillance from the off.

Did I say anything about an improved post-brexit? No. Fact.

 

[Scouse]

You and your late edits. There really isn't much point replying to you before the edit timer runs out, just in case you add something. Impossible

He changes the substance of what he posts in response to responses all the time.

Watch it. He'll be calling you out for being on the "refresh" button next. Like people who accuse other people of doing the sort of shit they get up to....

 

[Job]

There is no doubt our relationship with Europe is going to be rough from now on, every deal is going to be a duel and the papers will denounce everything as sour grapes, it will also spread across the EU as countries watch the deals we get , each with their own take on it.
If they come down hard they will hand victory to the right...too soft and it will cause unrest in competing countries.
Either way, they are fucked and we are in the driving seat.
It's not about cold hard economic facts, but all about the EU having to play it's hand in front of the world.

 

[Scouse]

Yeah, I was wrong about the USD bouncing back, happy (or not!) to admit it...but then I am capable of changing my mind based on evidence.

Some people call that being proved flat out wrong. But I like your spin

 

[caLLous]

Did I say anything about an improved post-brexit? No. Fact.

So you're fed up with the current situation but you voted for a future situation where the level of fuckery could be even worse at Westminster and there are less safety nets. Ok.

But I am not a complete dick to people, just you. I treat people exactly as they treat me. You seem to have had a problem with me for some time, following me around with little snipes, no idea why, some sort of infatuation maybe? Bizarre really. There are plenty of remainers and EU supporters of remain that I get on with too.

Ah yes, that must be why you changed your mind on the probably the biggest political decision you'll ever make, because you get on royally with so many Remain voters and you're so respectful of their views. Give me a fucking break, you're just an angry troll.

Yeah, I was wrong about the USD bouncing back, happy (or not!) to admit it...but then I am capable of changing my mind based on evidence.

You didn't change your mind, you dug your heels in and made sarcastic posts about not being an expert if I remember rightly.

Watch it. He'll be calling you out for being on the "refresh" button next. Like people who accuse other people of doing the sort of shit they get up to....

And then he'll say he didn't reply sooner because he has a life, you know.

 

[Deebs]

So you're fed up with the current situation but you voted for a future situation where the level of fuckery could be even worse at Westminster and there are less safety nets. Ok.

Ah yes, that must be why you changed your mind on the probably the biggest political decision you'll ever make, because you get on royally with so many Remain voters and you're so respectful of their views. Give me a fucking break, you're just an angry troll.

You didn't change your mind, you dug your heels in and made sarcastic posts about not being an expert if I remember rightly.

And then he'll say he didn't reply sooner because he has a life, you know.

No I voted for a Great Britain in control of itself.

 

[Raven]

But I didn't change my mind before the vote, I hadn't made my mind up until I got to the booth. And as stated, pretty much the only reason I support Brexit now is due to the way remainers have behaved since and the actions of the EU. I am also sure that the UK will do perfectly fine without the protectionist, corrupt, bloated and creaking EU. It does not want to reform, it is run by people who's entire existence is to keep the club together. It's sinking, whether you like it or not. Like any empire that reaches the limits of expansion, it's doomed.

I have also previously stated that I would love to see a fully federal united state of EU but only if it was transparent and democratic...which it is far from being so fuck it.

 

[Jupitus]

I am in a similar position on this to Callous, in that I voted remain and believe we should have done and yet respect the result and hope desperately that May and co make a decent job of it. As for Raven, though, on this topic he really is getting a bit boring with every positive bit of news being used as a barb towards us who argued in line with what alot of 'experts' were saying that leaving the EU would be bad for our economy.

Sterling has bombed and not recovered, and underlying the positive news about growth predictions being revised there is still an undercurrent of significant uncertainty about inflation which in turn could lead to a sharper than expected hike in interest rates. Combine inflation with low wage growth and a more expensive mortgage and spending soon starts to slow down.

Oh, and by the way lest you have forgotten, before the vote it was never made clear that to leave would take a minimum of 2 years to even start... 'BREXIT' hasn't happened yet...

 

[Raven]

So spend months getting moaned at for not jumping onboard the dOOOmtrain, then pointing out that actually things aren't nearly as bad as the experts claimed is somehow bad? Riiight.

 

[caLLous]

No one says you have to jump on any train, just don't change your vote on this massive decision because you don't like those who aren't optimistic about the future expressing their thoughts.

 

[Jupitus]

So spend months getting moaned at for not jumping onboard the dOOOmtrain, then pointing out that actually things aren't nearly as bad as the experts claimed is somehow bad? Riiight.

Well, before the vote it was a discussion regarding what would be the best choice during a period when people were making up their minds. Post-vote it becomes a bit pointless.

@Deebs - I see you have agreed with Raven but I think he is overstating that somewhat. FWIW, BTW, I actually agree with your reasons for wanting to leave, my vote was purely based on the economical risks involved.

 

[Deebs]

Well, before the vote it was a discussion regarding what would be the best choice during a period when people were making up their minds. Post-vote it becomes a bit pointless.

@Deebs - I see you have agreed with Raven but I think he is overstating that somewhat. FWIW, BTW, I actually agree with your reasons for wanting to leave, my vote was purely based on the economical risks involved.

No I agreed with noone. My views and reasons for voting how I did are my own.

 

[Raven]

Well, before the vote it was a discussion regarding what would be the best choice during a period when people were making up their minds. Post-vote it becomes a bit pointless.

@Deebs - I see you have agreed with Raven but I think he is overstating that somewhat. FWIW, BTW, I actually agree with your reasons for wanting to leave, my vote was purely based on the economical risks involved.

But post vote all we seem to hear is OMGRACISTS from remainers and OMGYOUWILLBEPUNISHED from the EU...so frankly, fuck the lot of them.

Idiots still believe over 50% of the UK is racist, its ridiculous. It doesn't progress anything and all they seem to be intent on doing is shitting in their own bed and cutting their noses off to spite their face. It's as if they want us to fail. It's childish and not even remotely helpful to anyone.

Lets be honest, within the EU there are perhaps 4 countries that actually matter to the productivity and economic well being of the EU. The UK, Germany, The Netherlands and France. The 3 remaining are no more likely to fuck about for decades getting trade sorted out as we are, it would be self defeating for everyone involved, the damage to their economies from being dicks would be catastrophic.

 

[Raven]

No one says you have to jump on any train, just don't change your vote on this massive decision because you don't like those who aren't optimistic about the future expressing their thoughts.

Erm...I didn't change my vote...unless there has been a second ballot that nobody told me about?

 

[caLLous]

Idiots still believe over 50% of the UK is racist, its ridiculous.

Idiots might, but Remain voters don't. As has been said *many times* in this thread and elsewhere - not all Leave voters are racists but I expect that the vast majority of racists voted to Leave.

It doesn't progress anything and all they seem to be intent on doing is shitting in their own bed and cutting their noses off to spite their face. It's as if they want us to fail. It's childish and not even remotely helpful to anyone.

See my earlier post. You have an idea in your head of what Remain voters want and it's not accurate in the slightest. Being pessimistic for the future does not mean that Remain voters want everything to burn. But you get your jollies by shouting REMOANER and RACIALIST so knock yourself out.

This is absolutely a coincidence and not at all a consequence of a certain type of person feeling more emboldened than they might have before 2016 because of a vote that had NOTHING AT ALL to do with immigration and how foreigners are perceived. "Why might they feel emboldened?" I hear you ask. Well, maybe because the team that a certain type of person voted for in the referendum "won". Once again, clearly not saying that Leave voters are all racists.

Erm...I didn't change my vote...unless there has been a second ballot that nobody told me about?

Oh ffs, go mad on a single misplaced word why don't you. You voted Remain and then all of a sudden you became a full-on Leave advocate. I'm sure you said you wish you had voted Leave in the first place but I genuinely can't be bothered to trawl through your contributions to this thread.

 

[Raven]

...but I am not a leave advocate...to keep hassle to a minimum I would have preferred us to remain, but we aren't remaining so lets try moving on.

Its not like it actually matters one way or another in the long term, to us plebs, not really. What is done is done, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it now. We work to gain what we can and then we give it all up to pay for someone to look after us when we are old. Moaning about the outcome wont change the outcome. Growth and positivity should be celebrated because the short term benefits do trickle down. Bitching and moaning only leads to division within society, that is more dangerous than any Brexit vote. And like sensible people keep saying, there is no reason why we cannot have a continued good relationship with the EU (It appears that it is the EU that is actually adverse to this, not the individual countries within the EU), both socially and with trade, just like we have done most of the time for the last couple of thousand years.

I know our local tax dodger likes to bleat on about some perceived reduction in his "personal net worth" or whatever bollocks is the buzzword this week but at the end of the day he will still end up having to sell whatever he has to pay for someone to wipe his arse and bring him cups of shit tea when he is old. Short termism is a complete waste of time.

 

[Scouse]

within the EU there are perhaps 4 countries that actually matter to the productivity and economic well being of the EU. The UK, Germany, The Netherlands and France. The 3 remaining

4 "that matter" leaving 3 remaining countries? 7 in total? There are 28, according to the UK government.

Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the UK.

So, unless your positon is "fuck the little people - they don't matter" then you need to recount.

Being pessimistic for the future does not mean that Remain voters want everything to burn.

You forget m8. Raven's a prepper. He wants everything to burn. - hence his oft-posted "fuck 'em all"... So, like his accusations of other people "sitting on the refresh button" - he accuses everyone else of wanting everything to burn. Because why would the UK majority think differently from him? He's certainly representative of the common-sense working man and not an outlier, right?

Right?

 

[Raven]

No, Scouse, 4-1 = 3 and always has and generally always will.

Nobody gives a shit about the economic output of Slovenia, neither us nor the EU...all they do is provide a cheap workforce to generate more profit for the corps, that is their function within the EU, shitty but an unfortunate reality of the EU machine, tow the line or essentially become owned by EU debt like Greece, Spain and Italy. To pretend otherwise, while plucky, is generally retarded. If they wanted to spread the wealth as it were then they would pay them a decent wage...but they don't because...profit.

(and yes I was silly enough to click the "show ignored content" and saw your usual misinformed gibberish, but at least I don't need to put up with page after page of you creating arguments to muddy the waters and deflect from your idiocy)

 

[Scouse]

No, Scouse, 4-1 = 3 and always has and generally always will.

Ah. I get your post now. Was only skimming. Fair enough. But I get the Slovenians give a shit about their rapidly increasing economic output and quality of life, improving cultural values etc. etc. they've got from being a member of the EU.

And I do to. Like a lot of people I think the European project, whilst imperfect, is in principle a force for good. The longest period of European Continental peace is testament to that.

I don't feel a deep emotional need to watch it all burn down and be rebuilt whilst sitting in my shed (or ditch?) whilst eating baked beans.



Oh. And btw - my reducing net worth and the lack of freedom of movement that Brexit will bring about will mean that the government is probably going to have to pitch in with funding the wiping of my piss and shit-stained body when I'm older because A) I'll be worth less and B) social care will be more expensive.

Shame. Because up until Brexit I was bang-on to being totally self-sufficient until I died, whereupon any remaining wealth (in the absence of kids, that I've never wanted) was to be distributed to charities of my choosing. But hey-ho...