Politics Scottish Independance?

[Job]

It just isn't going to happen, no-one is that stupid, the Scots get huge handouts from the big money machine down south, the oil isn't worth enough and companies are hardly going to be lining up to invest in a relatively remote area with pisspoor transportation links,
I don't even understand why they would consider it, if it's some Braveheart inspired honour thing, very nice, but don't cut your nose off ..etc.

 

[Hawkwind]

I highly doubt the MOD would pull out of Scotland in an independent scenario. Westminster would still "own" the various sites and the jobs are far too valuable to the local economy for Scotland to let go. .

Personally I think were will be massive political pressure to remove most of those contracts/jobs to England and Wales. Why should the rest of the UK pay (tax payers money) for the jobs created in Scotland if they do break away from the Union. Ship building like the Type 45 Destroyers in Glasgow employing 3000 people. The QE Carrier building employs 1000 at Rosyth Dockyards. Both these contracts are with BAe companies and will contribute 230 Million each year for the next 15 years. Both could easily be moved to Newcastle/Sunderland or the South Coast. I think the question should really be why would they not do it?

As for the sites, they could gradually decommission and sell them off. Effectively 1% of Scotland.

Not to mention the skills base and excellent training opportunities up there (lots of terrain types and weather variations to harden your boys up)

As others have said - Wales would do just as well.

It's also handy for the Scots to have UK forces in their back yard - stops potential blaggers trying it on.

But will they stump up the money it costs? As for the potential blaggers, the Romans could not be arsed 2000 years ago and not much has changed

 

[Poag]

I like to think of it as job creation in the North (of england) if Scotland breaks away.

Firstly any services previously sourced off of Scotland (water leccy etc) will need to be rerouted. Secondly its now a border so needs border staff to man the check points (and machine gun nests)

Passport control, customs etc. The UK isn't in Schengen so it counts a new border with a foreign nation so new jobs to be created manning that border.

That is of course if Scotland joins Europe, again its a new country so not automatic entry. Then theres EMU, ECB membership lots of hoops to jump through and oh yes...lots of Germans sneering down their noses at the financial state of the country.

 

[DaGaffer]

I like to think of it as job creation in the North (of england) if Scotland breaks away.

Firstly any services previously sourced off of Scotland (water leccy etc) will need to be rerouted. Secondly its now a border so needs border staff to man the check points (and machine gun nests)

Passport control, customs etc. The UK isn't in Schengen so it counts a new border with a foreign nation so new jobs to be created manning that border.

That is of course if Scotland joins Europe, again its a new country so not automatic entry. Then theres EMU, ECB membership lots of hoops to jump through and oh yes...lots of Germans sneering down their noses at the financial state of the country.

No one mans the border between Ireland and NI, so I doubt we'll be setting up pillboxes and tank traps at Gretna Green any time soon.

 

[throdgrain]

Like minimum alcohol pricing and any number of other things. Nanny state can fuck right off.

Thats another one! Damn right Wij

 

[Chilly]

I like to think of it as job creation in the North (of england) if Scotland breaks away.

Firstly any services previously sourced off of Scotland (water leccy etc) will need to be rerouted. Secondly its now a border so needs border staff to man the check points (and machine gun nests)

Passport control, customs etc. The UK isn't in Schengen so it counts a new border with a foreign nation so new jobs to be created manning that border.

That is of course if Scotland joins Europe, again its a new country so not automatic entry. Then theres EMU, ECB membership lots of hoops to jump through and oh yes...lots of Germans sneering down their noses at the financial state of the country.

Lol as if we'll have machine gun nests on the border

 

[Poag]

Lol as if we'll have machine gun nests on the border

Got to guard our borders from the Scottish horde *Puts on toga and waves a golden eagle around*

Them Saxons, stealing our..everything, burning our...everything. They invade from the north, we must build a new wall!

 

[old.user4556]

I'm all for a wall to prevent a Muslim invasion from the south .

 

[Hawkwind]

I'm all for a wall to prevent a Muslim invasion from the south .

Neglected, jobless and disaffected youth. Scotland's the perfect breeding ground for the poor mans religion Doubt we'll take back all those Afghans we stuck in Glasgow.

 

[old.user4556]

Neglected, jobless and disaffected youth

I think you'll find this is an issue blighting the whole UK and indeed Europe.

There are some very good points made in this thread that Fat Alex hasn't even started to address. The NHS, defence, border control - all silent in favour for his Bullshit Braveheart agenda. No one has explained how passport control is going to work - do you need to be born in Scotland to be Scottish? What if you lived here for twenty years, but moved to England a year ago to work? Who gets to vote in the referendum? There's fuck all substance.

I've also not heard a peep about Shetlanders and Orcadians who have rejected the SNP and also have half the oil fields in their waters. If Slugface reckons he can pinch them and gift the cash to his own ends, then IMO he's sorely mistaken. Cameron won't allow it.

 

[DaGaffer]

I think you'll find this is an issue blighting the whole UK and indeed Europe.

There are some very good points made in this thread that Fat Alex hasn't even started to address. The NHS, defence, border control - all silent in favour for his Bullshit Braveheart agenda. No one has explained how passport control is going to work - do you need to be born in Scotland to be Scottish? What if you lived here for twenty years, but moved to England a year ago to work? Who gets to vote in the referendum? There's fuck all substance.

I've also not heard a peep about Shetlanders and Orcadians who have rejected the SNP and also have half the oil fields in their waters. If Slugface reckons he can pinch them and gift the cash to his own ends, then IMO he's sorely mistaken. Cameron won't allow it.

To be fair there are plenty of examples from Europe (like the split of Czechoslovakia) to help develop a roadmap (the Czech/Slovak split was more equal in terms of population, but not in terms of economics, all the money is on the Czech side), both on voting models and "division of the spoils" so to speak. I'm assuming that in any referendum the "no" camp would be highlighting all these issues.

Hadn't occurred to me about the Shetlands and Orkneys. Could they stay with England? Is that even an option? It would be fucking hilarious if it was.

 

[old.user4556]

I've got some good links at home re this discussion Gaff, mobile at the minute.

It may be a suggestion way out there, but the Danes also might have something to say about their former ownership of said isles. One things for sure, the islands have absolutely no acceptance of the SNP.

 

[old.user4556]

Have a read:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ey-could-opt-out-of-independent-Scotland.html

Granted, it's the Torygraph, but it still stands true (correction to self, a quarter of oil fields - and growing...).

 

[Ormorof]

what i never understood in UK politics is why scottish MPs are allowed to vote on matters that only affect England (seeing as Scotland and Wales have their own parliament/assembly shiznit going on)

that seems somewhat absurd to me, either have all of it in London, or have it completely seperate, this waffling around wishy washyness is just pissing everyone off

 

[DaGaffer]

what i never understood in UK politics is why scottish MPs are allowed to vote on matters that only affect England (seeing as Scotland and Wales have their own parliament/assembly shiznit going on)

that seems somewhat absurd to me, either have all of it in London, or have it completely seperate, this waffling around wishy washyness is just pissing everyone off

Its called The West Lothian Question, and its because there are issues that the Scottish Parliament doesn't control (tax, defence etc.) so they need a vote in Westminster, but it throws up all kinds of ethical issues about who really controls the English democratic process. An independent Scotland would resolve that issue. As would an English Parliament, but no-one likes that idea because they're worried about what the English would do with it.

 

[Ormorof]

so they could just "fuck shit up" and then head back north?

seems like a fair democracy

 

[MrHorus]

What if you lived here for twenty years, but moved to England a year ago to work? Who gets to vote in the referendum? There's fuck all substance.

Actually they have been fairly (and embarrassingly for them) open about that.

If you are not on the electoral roll in a Holyrood constituency then you will not get to vote.

Your man who lived here for 20 years and moved to England 1 year ago - he doesn't get to vote.
Francois who lived in France for 20 years and moved to Scotland 1 year ago - he does.

Idiots.

 

[old.user4556]

Oh I wasn't aware they had announced that, it seems there is no end to the fuckwittery of the SNP.

 

[rynnor]

I really really hope it never happens - its such a nightmare mess and however you divide things up neither side will be happy.

I also dont welcome the idea of a permanent conservative govt in the rest of the uk - its just not healthy.

 

[Wij]

I really really hope it never happens - its such a nightmare mess and however you divide things up neither side will be happy.

I also dont welcome the idea of a permanent conservative govt in the rest of the uk - its just not healthy.

Even if that were true in the short-term, the longer a party is in power, the more people end up resenting it. It would balance out again.

 

[Tom]

One good thing about a potential split of the UK though is that the Labour Party in England would become utterly irrelevant.

 

[Deebs]

One good thing about a potential split of the UK though is that the Labour Party in England would become utterly irrelevant.

I am all for that, bunch of cunts.

 

[old.user4556]

One good thing about a potential split of the UK though is that the Labour Party in England would become utterly irrelevant.

The same is true for the SNP in Scotland.

Then what?

 

[Wij]

The same is true for the SNP in Scotland.

Then what?

The SNP would then become the equivalent of the BNP surely. They might start erecting a big fence to keep dirty English out and blaming foreigners for any economic woes.

 

[old.user4556]

... and if they don't get independence (which they won't), will Slugface resign and get to fuck?

 

[DaGaffer]

The SNP would then become the equivalent of the BNP surely. They might start erecting a big fence to keep dirty English out and blaming foreigners for any economic woes.

Doubt they'll be able to square that with their need to suck on the EU teat (what's left of it). Scotland would lack a centre-right political party unless the Scottish conservatives rebrand themselves or a new one emerges, which would be inevitable after a while.

Same in England, Labour would be unelectable for a while, but a 4-5 term Conservative government is just as bad an idea as a 4-5 term Labour one (like it or not, there was good reason why Tony Blair won with a landslide in 1997). I also think the Boundary Commission would have to look at the English Wards pretty quickly anyway, so you might find Labour wouldn't be as unelectable as you think.

 

[DaGaffer]

... and if they don't get independence (which they won't), will Slugface resign and get to fuck?

No, because his ace-in-the-hole is Devo-Max, which the Scottish people probably will vote for.

 

[old.user4556]

Yes, I probably would.

Re a lack of centre-right party, the Tories need to rebrand up here anyway, there's too much thatcher resentment (I'm a Tory voter btw).

 

[MYstIC G]

Salmond's a twat but he runs rings round Cameron and Miliband.

Clearly you've not looked at his stomach, he runs nowhere.

 

[BloodOmen]

/me hides before scots get angry