Politics Scottish Independance?

[Cemeterygates]

I do wonder how they would cope if it was to happen. Would screw up healthcare and higher education (atleast compared to how it is now) and surely would see a very large rise in enemployment (millitary wise). Would probably see a lot more scots moving down south, that or Scandanavia I would imagine.

I don't know figures, hence asking, but what is Scotlands largest source of income?

I'd hazard a guess that tourism is quite a chunk of it. (Loch Ness, Edinburgh, Rosslyn, Highlands maybe?)

 

[Job]

Whiskey must be a huge chunk of it, the distillers are in boomtown.
Wiki says Whiskey and electronics, though there biggest export has always been people,

 

[Cemeterygates]

No e, Job...

 

[throdgrain]

Its exactly the same in the rest of the UK and from the same cause - the Welfare State.

You're right of course, but there just seems to be even more of them in Scotland, and they seem so beligerently proud of it too

 

[old.user4556]

Put your Daily Mail away Throddy, it's embarrassing to read these sweeping, pigeon holing generalisations.

It's a problem for the whole of the UK, worry about what's going down on your own doorstep first.

 

[Hawkwind]

Whiskey must be a huge chunk of it, the distillers are in boomtown.
Wiki says Whiskey and electronics, though there biggest export has always been people,

They have been doing a great job marketing the premium brands in the emerging middle class economies like China and India.

Scottish Whisky - Any other Whiskey

 

[Raven]

Shame a lot of it isn't owned by Scottish companies though.

 

[DaGaffer]

You're right of course, but there just seems to be even more of them in Scotland, and they seem so beligerently proud of it too

Actually Wales, NE & NW England all have higher rates of "economically inactive" people than Scotland. On the other hand, the Scots access the NHS more than anyone else and spend a lot more per capita on Education (UK as a whole is about 8% of GDP, its thought Scotland spends closer to 10% pro-rated). Of course if they went independent they could drop defence spending down to Irish levels (around 0.6% GDP instead of the UK 2.7%), although this would have to be found as no defence spending is apportioned to Scotland at the moment. Scotland's more badly exposed to state pension provision than England (although surprisingly public sector pensions as a percentage of GDP are in decline - which is the opposite of what I thought), and they have a higher % of public sector workers (16 Scottish counties have more than the national average % of public sector workers).

I think the picture of Scottish dependence on the state is more complex than it looks; there are areas of obvious difference (education, health) but the public sector workforce and "dole" culture is a bit harder to call, because England is both better and worse than the Scottish average in these areas.

 

[Hawkwind]

Anyone have a scooby on what their defence plans are? Would the UK close all the MOD sites in Scotland? Valuable ship contracts and missiles could be up for debate again. Looked at the list of MOD property and sites and it is a huge list employing over 18000 people directly.

Just found this pdf, might be politically motivated so have to take with a pinch of salt but shows what they could miss if they vote for it.

 

[rynnor]

Actually Wales, NE & NW England all have higher rates of "economically inactive" people than Scotland.

Wales and the NE are really incredible when you look at the stats - the majority of employment is for the state and most of the private sector there just services these state employees. Scotland has no issues compared to the problems in those regions.

I was in the Northeast a couple of weeks ago and the poverty there is obvious. The lack of opportunity is pretty miserable and the area's dominated by derelict industrial sites. I have no idea how you even begin to fix that - flooding it with Public sector jobs isnt viable though - that much is clear.

 

[Jeros]

I always say to people, if you want a job, pepper everywhere and anywhere with CVs, I went out on one Sunday in york, gave out tons of CVs and applications to anywhere that was taking, got three interviews and two job offers, ended up having the job I took for 2 years before I moved away.​

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It can be done.​

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Not to mention the "staff wanted" signs are back up in shop windows so there is no point on blaming it on the economy anymore.​

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Also all this, "I'm not doing that job its beneath me", well its a lot better than being on the fucking dole. To quote a good friend of mine, I would shovel shit if they paid me.​

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[Ormorof]

York is a bit different from the likes of Hull though, where you can hand in as many CVs as you like but you might as well sit at home and apply for shiz online as you have a better chance of getting elsewhere

 

[Chilly]

I highly doubt the MOD would pull out of Scotland in an independent scenario. Westminster would still "own" the various sites and the jobs are far too valuable to the local economy for Scotland to let go. Not to mention the skills base and excellent training opportunities up there (lots of terrain types and weather variations to harden your boys up).

It's also handy for the Scots to have UK forces in their back yard - stops potential blaggers trying it on.

 

[Raven]

They would be out of Europe (with little chance of being accepted) and out of Nato so if we did pull out then they would have a problem...I doubt anyone would bother having a pop at them though to be fair.

It doesn't matter though, I very much doubt they will vote for independence.

 

[DaGaffer]

I highly doubt the MOD would pull out of Scotland in an independent scenario. Westminster would still "own" the various sites and the jobs are far too valuable to the local economy for Scotland to let go. Not to mention the skills base and excellent training opportunities up there (lots of terrain types and weather variations to harden your boys up).

It's also handy for the Scots to have UK forces in their back yard - stops potential blaggers trying it on.

I think you're right that the MoD would try to keep Scottish bases open (in the manner of the Irish Treaty Ports), but, there would be a lot of pressure on Westminster to pull all of those assets out of Scotland and create jobs in England and Wales tbh. I really don't think anyone is prepared for the levels of English backlash if Scotland declares independence, there will be an enormous amount of bad feeling about it and a definite element of (rightly or wrongly) "fuck off you ungrateful bastards", for a good while. Training is a red herring; the MoD has Wales and the rest of NATO for training.

 

[Chilly]

It's a lot cheaper to ship 1,000 troops to Scotland for a fortnight than to Norway. Or is it? Probably not much difference really - between trucks and a boat I suppose.

 

[DaGaffer]

It's a lot cheaper to ship 1,000 troops to Scotland for a fortnight than to Norway. Or is it? Probably not much difference really - between trucks and a boat I suppose.

Even cheaper to ship them to Wales.

 

[Litmus]

Or the lake district? Even Cornwall

 

[Job]

I come from the Northwest, so I now about swathes of welfare spongers, but if Merseyside decided to go for independence from England, i'd be reacting the same way...you've got no jobs and a third of you are on the dole, it just won't work.

 

[Jeros]

Heh

The Independent peoples republic of Essex

Day 1: Independent peoples republic of Essex founded
Day 2: Roiting and looting in major population centres
Day 3: Single mothers for equality launch campaign "Nun of our kids 2 be left behnd! x x x x"
Day 4: Colchester burns for "disrepesct'n" emerging chav warlord clans
Day 5: Annexed by France

 

[MrHorus]

Fuck off all you like, it's true.

Except erm, it's not.

You asserted that the entire housing stock of Scotland is council houses, which is not true in the slightest.

If you want to get digs in, at least make them factual.

*posted from my private let in Edinburgh*

 

[Jeros]

Except erm, it's not.

You asserted that the entire housing stock of Scotland is council houses, which is not true in the slightest.

If you want to get digs in, at least make them factual.

*posted from my private let in Edinburgh*

This

*posted from half a mile away from my private let in Edinburgh*

 

[MrHorus]

You're right of course, but there just seems to be even more of them in Scotland, and they seem so beligerently proud of it too

Which again, is just not true.

Yes there are a fair number of benefit scroungers and yes some of them are proud of it, but show me a former industrial city where that's NOT the case; Belfast, Hull, Liverpool and Newcastle have all suffered the same issues after the decline of heavy industry in Britain.

The vast, vast majority of those who work are resent the fucking parasites that do not and are thoroughly ashamed by the alkies and wasters that you can sometimes see hanging around city centres as they just do not paint a true picture.

Unfortunately it's what the likes of the Daily Mail and Little Englanders like to latch on to and say "Oh ho ho look at those alcoholic, benefit-scrounging jocks at it again".

I hate the chronic unemployed. I refuse to accept that there are "no jobs out there" - its bullshit.

I've worked for nearly all my adult life and I've done all sorts of work in between "real" jobs to make ends meet. I've flipped burgers (in McDonalds AND Burger King), I've scrubbed shitty toilets, I've cleaned offices, I've pulled pints and washed dishes in restaurant kitchens.

I hate not working. I hate taking from the state.

Chronic unemployment *IS* a lifestyle choice.

 

[throdgrain]

You seem to make both points at the same time

I'm not just talking about benefit scroungers. The whole nanny state thing has gone mad in Scotland even worse than here. They've made (or are making) air rifles illegal for gods sake. They let go that Lockerbie bomber on some high minded fucking lefty principle.

 

[old.user4556]

You mean the world's most hideously unsafe conviction based on a shit-load of bad evidence? That'll be exposed as one of the worst miscarriages of justice eventually, just wait and see.

 

[Tom]

Wales and the NE are really incredible when you look at the stats - the majority of employment is for the state and most of the private sector there just services these state employees. Scotland has no issues compared to the problems in those regions.

I was in the Northeast a couple of weeks ago and the poverty there is obvious. The lack of opportunity is pretty miserable and the area's dominated by derelict industrial sites. I have no idea how you even begin to fix that - flooding it with Public sector jobs isnt viable though - that much is clear.

It doesn't help that motorway links up there are shit.

 

[MrHorus]

They've made (or are making) air rifles illegal for gods sake.

And do you know WHY they would consider doing such a thing?

 

[Raven]

Because they don't want people to pursue a perfectly safe hobby?

I can't really think of any other normal idea. It can't be because they don't want criminals to buy guns because...well...criminals can buy guns.

It's not like banning pistols or tightening regulation has any effect whatsoever on gun crime.

 

[throdgrain]

And do you know WHY they would consider doing such a thing?

Yes I do, it's because a minority abuse them so the majority have to suffer.

"It's for your own good".

 

[Wij]

Yes I do, it's because a minority abuse them so the majority have to suffer.

"It's for your own good".

Like minimum alcohol pricing and any number of other things. Nanny state can fuck right off.