Help More eBay trouble.

[Fweddy]

I didn't want to hijack Big G's thread but I've found myself on the other side of the coin to him.

Just over a week ago I bought a used camera off eBay and the shutter/mirror keeps sticking. It only happened once or twice at first and I assumed they were just one offs because the battery was getting low. But it's rapidly got a lot worse, to the point where now every fifth picture or so is ruined and the viewfinder is blocked off until I take another photo.

I've contacted the seller and he swears he never had any problems with it. It sounds like I've been using the camera a lot more than he ever did so it could be that he's telling the truth and I've just been unlucky enough to buy a camera just before part of it has worn out, or I could have been sold a dud. I'm inclined to give the guy the benefit of the doubt but it just seems a big coincidence that it only just started to show symptoms of wear 3 days after being sold. But then that could be explained by me using it a lot more.

So basically I'm not sure if I should push for a return and a refund or not. I'd hate to think I'd bought this guy's camera, wore it out and then returned it, but then I'd hate to be ripped off too. What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance.

 

[old.user4556]

Ugh, sorry to hear, few questions:

- how old is it?
- what make is it?
- how many shutter actuations?
- how much did you pay?

 

[Fweddy]

Thanks.

It's a Nikon D300. I'm not sure exactly how old it is, probably a couple of years. It's got around 38,000 shutter actuations on it and cost me £360. They're rated for 150,000 actuations so I thought it should be a fairly safe buy.

 

[PLightstar]

Had a similar problem earlier this year with a PS3, the blu ray drive stopped working. He said it was fine when he had it. But I had no way of proving it, luckily my dad's YLOD PS3 drive worked fine, so I ended up switching the drives and it works fine and my Dad couldn't be happier. But it was a let down turning up on his birthday with a half broken PS3. eBay said I could send it back for a refund, but the Seller said he wasn't going to agree with eBay as it worked at his house.

 

[old.user4556]

The D300 is known to have shutter issues.

I did some googling and found some interesting chat about the shutter sticking when the battery gets low. Have you tried charging the battery fully to see if it makes a difference?

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=161026

http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00YVaO?start=10

Getting back to your ebay problem in hand, sheesh I dunno. It looks like it's a fairly common and well documented issue, particularly with the battery juice getting low. I guess it comes down to the question of "was it sold 'significantly not as described' ?", you could argue that he knew about it and sold a dud, so you should pursue a dispute through Paypal / eBay and let them decide. Having been on the other side of it, and apologies if this sounds harsh, but I would have expected you / the buyer to have done a thorough test of the item within a day or two. In the case of my lens that threw an error for the buyer, he tested it as soon as he got it and said "excellent" in his feedback, then said he got an error on a different camera body a week later.

Would it be worth contacting the seller to see if he will meet you half way on the repair? I have this in my back pocket if my buyer comes back demanding a refund. Ring around and get some quotes, it'll probably be ~£200 I'd expect, in which case if he coughs up half then it's still a cheap camera. Failing that, pursue a dispute, but my personal opinion is that you should have thoroughly tested it as soon as you got it.

 

[Gwadien]

Camera Noob...

Can you fix it? IE would it be better for both parties if you came to an agreement to share the cost of the repair? him 99% you 1%?

 

[Fweddy]

Thanks G and don't worry, you're not sounding harsh. I thought I had tested it pretty thoroughly but as at first it was only happening when the battery was low and as the shutter count isn't particularly high I thought it was a symptom of a flat battery rather than a worn out shutter and hence nothing to worry about. But I've taken maybe a couple of thousand photos since then and it's got a lot worse. I've tried it with two different full batteries now and no joy with either.

Nikon won't give me a quote unless I send the camera to them to look at but an authorised repairer has come back with an estimate of £250.

 

[andeh]

Know nothing about cameras, but speaking generally. Presume it was described in 'good working condition' or similar, so the fact it exhibited a widely documented fault during the initial tests (suggesting it was present at the point of sale) sounds pretty dodgy and would likely be adequate grounds to return it (both 'legally' and morally). With the camera now unusable after just a few thousand exposures, I wouldn't hesitate to demand a refund (or open a dispute if the seller refuses). While the seller may be completely innocent, you have no way of knowing - whether an honest seller or devious shyster, both would likely respond in a similar manner. If you keep hold of it you'll likely waste hours negotiating with the seller for a repair/getting the camera repaired. Return it and you'll be out of pocket for the return postage...

 

[old.user4556]

I'm not so sure about that.

Honestly, 2000 actuations of the shutter is a shitload, I'm lucky if I take one picture a week just now. I'm not saying that makes it ok regarding the "did he sell a dud or not", but if it died after the second, third or maybe tenth actuation then absolutely - raise it with paypal immediately as that's almost DoA. However, "several hundred" (thousands even..) of actuations? That's a very considerable amount of use that I think you may struggle to justify should it come to a dispute. When that comes to light during investigations by Paypal / eBay (since the actuations are logged), I do not think they'll look at that favourably. I also don't think the rated actuations will add weight - does that mean you could return it if it died at 149,999? What about 120,000? Where's the cut off?

Do you see what I'm saying here? It sounds to me like you've had considerable use out of it over the week and now it's developed a fault on a mechanical wear and tear part that will fail eventually. By all means pursue a dispute, but keep in mind what I've just said if it comes to the fine detail of the investigation.

 

[Fweddy]

I've just checked and I've actually taken 1200. As it's supposed to be a pro level camera I'd expect it to be able to handle a considerable amount of use. To me it seems like it began failing at pretty much the same time as I bought it and it's only because I've taken a lot of photos that it's become obvious. Imagine if a car stalled every 100 miles and the distance between stalls decreased slightly every time. Someone who only uses it for their weekly shopping could have it six months and never know it was faulty where as for someone who used it to drive from Edinburgh to London on a regular basis it would soon become completely unusable.

I see what you're saying though and I wouldn't feel comfortable asking for a full refund when there's no real way of knowing if it was worn out before I bought it or not. I've asked the seller if he'll contribute towards the repair cost, which I think is fair.

 

[old.user4556]

It's a tough one pal, I totally understand your frustration as a buyer and I would be looking for some goodwill from the seller on it (although, not sure about the rules and such about that and eBay).

I can also see it from the sellers point of view as I was considering selling my EOS 7D body. If I had sold my EOS 7D body with 10000 actuations on it, and it started having mirror / shutter issues after 1000 further actuations by the buyer a week later, I'd be very reluctant to help them out because a) for all I know, they've taken it to Africa on Safari and have buyer's remorse b) they're simply a chancing bastard, got their use out of it and now want to return it c) if it had a fault from arrival, it would have shown up after ten or twenty shutter actuations, and not several hundred.

I'm not saying you're a chancing bastard having heard your side of the story, and that's why I think goodwill from both sides of the sale will be the most amicable solution.

 

[Fweddy]

Thanks. I really appreciate your advice on this one. I've never sold anything on eBay so it's been very helpful to hear from the opposing point of view. I've just accepted an offer from the seller for a partial refund of £100 to go towards the cost of fixing the camera. Now I'm going to have to get it posted to a repairer fast! I had to use my old camera this morning and it seemed awful after the D300.

 

[old.user4556]

I think that's a very fair resolution for both of you, a full refund was too far in my opinion. Glad it's worked out in the end.