Question Israel / Palestine - Is this accurate ?

[Raven]

He is no different to Bono and co. Have a good moan about the wrongs of the world, sell a few records off the back of it. Then go back to his big house in the country to bath in milk or whatever.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You're right Toht. Everyone's lying. Nobody writes from the heart.

Especially Lennon. He was a cunt all right.

Well everyone IS lying to some degree every day almost

That aside, you can't deny there's a certain level of over-exaggeration and message input for fame/money. Just because he's lennon doesn't matter.

 

[Scouse]

He is no different to Bono and co. Have a good moan about the wrongs of the world, sell a few records off the back of it. Then go back to his big house in the country to bath in milk or whatever.

Yours and DaGaffer's arguments are the same as the arguments that people use against me when I argue that capitalism is shit.

People try to tell me that I should give all my money away and go live like a poor hermit before my opinion can be "valid".

It's demonstrably incorrect. No human cuts off his nose to spite his face. That would be madness. Saying that Lennon should have given all his wealth away before his intellectual position is "allowed" is a childs argument.

People can compaign for systemic change whilst living within that system. In fact there is no realistic alternative.

 

[old.Tohtori]

If you've got more money then you need and aren't helping the world with it, you're a hypocrite and shouldn't talk about saving the world.

 

[Scouse]

If you've got more money then you need and aren't helping the world with it, you're a hypocrite and shouldn't talk about saving the world.

I guess Lennon's many charitable works and the stuff he wrote about during his solo career count for nothing then?


Are you guys fucking blind or something?

 

[DaGaffer]

Yours and DaGaffer's arguments are the same as the arguments that people use against me when I argue that capitalism is shit.

People try to tell me that I should give all my money away and go live like a poor hermit before my opinion can be "valid".

It's demonstrably incorrect. No human cuts off his nose to spite his face. That would be madness. Saying that Lennon should have given all his wealth away before his intellectual position is "allowed" is a childs argument.

People can compaign for systemic change whilst living within that system. In fact there is no realistic alternative.

Nah, sorry, bullshit. You can't argue for no possessions and all that other baloney but somehow its only for other people. You give me John Lennon, I give you Gandhi, now there was a man who walked the walk. Lennon was just another intellectual poseur. I have far more respect for Bill Gates frankly, who doesn't try to browbeat us with A-level quasi-communist hippy mystical bollocks and just gets on with using the fruits of capitalism to improve the sum of human happiness.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Charitable isn't the same as making the world better as much as you can when you're sitting on more money then you can wipe your arse with.

No one is saying you should live like a hermit, but giving 1% of your extra money to charity doesn't make you a god.

 

[Raven]

Yep, you can't ask those with little to give it all up and still hold on to a huge amount of wealth.

 

[Scouse]

Nah, sorry, bullshit. You can't argue for no possessions and all that other baloney but somehow its only for other people. You give me John Lennon, I give you Gandhi, now there was a man who walked the walk. Lennon was just another intellectual poseur. I have far more respect for Bill Gates frankly, who doesn't try to browbeat us with A-level quasi-communist hippy mystical bollocks and just gets on with using the fruits of capitalism to improve the sum of human happiness.

How about me then Gaff?

Do I have to give away my non-rich person's belongings before my opinions are valid?


You're talking bollocks. Bill Gates is showboating. He's got so many billions in the bank that he's not even leveraging. He said he'd give 95% of it away (which he hasn't) - which either way would still leave him with over a billion dollars in the bank.

Yeah. He's making a real sacrifice to his lifestyle there, old billy m'lad.

Edit:

giving 1% of your extra money to charity doesn't make you a god.

Yep, you can't ask those with little to give it all up and still hold on to a huge amount of wealth.

= Bill Gates.

Yeah. You fucking LOVE him.


Pull your heads out of your asses. People can hold intellectual positions regardless of their wealth.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Scouse for you to say that people should live a hippie life, yes, you should live on what you need(food, drink, transport, basic luxury like xobx etc, some fun money) and give the rest to the poor/charity/whatnot.

 

[Raven]

They can yes. But they can't ask everyone else to give up everything without doing so themselves. ofc they can bang on and on about the wrongs of the world, so long as they don't mind everyone calling them hypocritical douche bags.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I didn't mention bill gates, just because me and raven(for example) might agree on a matter doesn't make us agree on everything on that matter or on "the same side".

Agree on the above though, you can hold views all you want, but if you don't walk the walk then you're a hypocrite.

 

[DaGaffer]

How about me then Gaff?

Do I have to give away my non-rich person's belongings before my opinions are valid?

Are you a. rich? b. famous enough that people listen to your opinions? No? Then who cares?

You're talking bollocks. Bill Gates is showboating. He's got so many billions in the bank that he's not even leveraging. He said he'd give 95% of it away (which he hasn't) - which either way would still leave him with over a billion dollars in the bank.

Yeah. He's making a real sacrifice to his lifestyle there, old billy m'lad.

Edit:

= Bill Gates.

Yeah. You fucking LOVE him.

Bill Gates never claimed poverty and "equality" was a good idea, so he has no reason to impoverish himself. No hypocrisy involved at all. And as far as I'm aware, he isn't dead yet so the 95% thing is moot (since he said he'd give the remainder to the Gates Foundation on his death). Oh, and not only is he giving his own money away, he's managed to get more than a few billionaires to do the same.

Pull your heads out of your asses. People can hold intellectual positions regardless of their wealth.

They can, but hypocrisy will always undermine their argument.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's easy to resolve really Scouse; what do you do for the good of humanity?

 

[Scouse]

Are you a. rich? b. famous enough that people listen to your opinions? No? Then who cares?

Why do we bother talking on a forum if nobody cares about what anyone says then?


Do only rich and famous people have "valid" opinions, Gaff?

If that's the case, then you should put more stock in Lennon's argument.

They can, but hypocrisy will always undermine their argument.

And as I've said many times. That's a child's argument.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Nawt to do with being rich, or holding an opinion, but about being a hypocrite if you preach something you don't do yourself.

It's wore then someone trying to convert you to a religion since atleast they practice it

 

[DaGaffer]

Why do we bother talking on a forum if nobody cares about what anyone says then?

Do only rich and famous people have "valid" opinions, Gaff?

If that's the case, then you should put more stock in Lennon's argument.

What I meant was, if you gave all your possessions away, the world wouldn't notice, if John Lennon had, they might. Whether you like it or not, fame does bring influence, so while their argument is no more or less valid, it is more influential, and their hypocrisy is subsequently more damaging.

And as I've said many times. That's a child's argument.

No, saying you smell of wee is a child's argument (which you do, obviously). Pointing out that actions can and do speak louder than words, is not.

 

[Scouse]

No, saying you smell of wee is a child's argument (which you do, obviously). Pointing out that actions can and do speak louder than words, is not.

Yet nobody has even taken the time to even try to counter my point that it would be a real sign of madness for a human being to destitute himself. Whilst that fact stands I say that a rich man that argues, against his own position, for systemic change is displaying an admirable trait, one not worthy of derision.

Is the fact that humans can think one way and act another a sign of normal humanity, not of hypocricy? Is everything so simply dismissed in a black-and-white manner? Is there no room left for nuance in human thought and behaviour any more?

 

[Tom]

You're right Toht. Everyone's lying. Nobody writes from the heart.

Especially Lennon. He was a cunt all right.

He's obviously never listened to anything by Roger Waters.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Is the fact that humans can think one way and act another a sign of normal humanity, not of hypocricy?

Yes it's humanity, yes it's hypocrisy.

It's not a sign of madness either, it would be standing for what you believe in and to fight for what's right. Turtle power.

 

[Ctuchik]

Pointless discussion.

I can't think of a single person that has more money then they need that haven't donated more then most people will make in their lifetime (dictators and the likes excluded for quite obvious reasons). And is someone here really childish enough to claim that isn't enough just because they still have "to much money"?

It's easy as an average joe to sit and barf over those "filthy rich capitalist pigs" because we don't have the ability to put our money where our mouths are..

Sure we might donate to charity but what we do is laughable compared to what the "rich and famous" do as charity isn't ONLY about how much money you give away, it's just the easiest thing to measure.

 

[DaGaffer]

Yet nobody has even taken the time to even try to counter my point that it would be a real sign of madness for a human being to destitute himself. Whilst that fact stands I say that a rich man that argues, against his own position, for systemic change is displaying an admirable trait, one not worthy of derision.

Is the fact that humans can think one way and act another a sign of normal humanity, not of hypocricy? Is everything so simply dismissed in a black-and-white manner? Is there no room left for nuance in human thought and behaviour any more?

There's a difference between beggaring yourself and giving your wealth away to the point where you're just another prole like the rest of us. The reality of course is that most of humanity wouldn't think you were being noble or principled, they'd think you were a fucking idiot.

 

[Wij]

Nah, sorry, bullshit. You can't argue for no possessions and all that other baloney but somehow its only for other people. You give me John Lennon, I give you Gandhi, now there was a man who walked the walk. Lennon was just another intellectual poseur. I have far more respect for Bill Gates frankly, who doesn't try to browbeat us with A-level quasi-communist hippy mystical bollocks and just gets on with using the fruits of capitalism to improve the sum of human happiness.

Gandhi was also a right old racist who believed poverty was a good thing.

 

[DaGaffer]

Gandhi was also a right old racist who believed poverty was a good thing.

Ah, but even unpleasant people can have valid opinions And if Gandhi believed poverty was a good thing, at least he didn't sit in his solid gold house telling other people it was a great idea. He quite literally walked the walk.

 

[Wij]

He also preached celibacy yet slept in a bed with his grand-niece and other young girls.

 

[DaGaffer]

He also preached celibacy yet slept in a bed with his grand-niece and other young girls.

But may or may not have done the nasty. Wasn't that a test of his celibacy? Which he said he passed...

 

[Wij]

Yeh right. Building up the wank bank at the very least.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Somehow I don't see myself learning any accurate information from this thread. But then, thats not why I'm really on FH I guess

 

[Draylor]

Stick to Wijs posts and you wont go far wrong.

As for the rest its just a shame the 'bashing head on a wall' smiley disappeared

 

[opticle]

I think aspects of Communism definitely have their merits. Unfortunately the "human condition" many people live in, particularly those who seek positions of power and authority, including Stalin, means that those merits achieve fuck all.

Which is a shame.

To quote Douglas Adams:

“And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.”

Cue the Vogons