Question Israel / Palestine - Is this accurate ?

[rynnor]

You've got the logic the wrong way around. The Jewish vote is critical in a lot of key swing states (Florida in particular). You wouldn't get elected if you didn't "stay strong" on Israel. Certain presidents, (mainly Democrats, and Clinton in particular) have cut aid to Israel, but only when they were strong enough to do so. Its a similar problem with the Cuban issue; most American politicians aren't actually retarded and would prefer to normalise relations with Cuba but there's a key bunch of voters (once again, in Florida) who can stop that happening by their influence at the polls. If the US got rid of the Electoral College system, a lot of these issues would go away (although of course they'd be replaced by other issues we'd probably find as bad or worse).

That was my point actually Perhaps I could have worded it better

 

[opticle]

That was my point actually Perhaps I could have worded it better

I thought that was your point too.. thank you for confirming I am not senile

 

[Appollo]

If the pope says we have to go there again can we say no this time?

 

[sayward]

awwwwww Ive missed you lot ​

So glad to see you. Was starting to worry.

 

[throdgrain]

He's obviously never listened to anything by Roger Waters.

Dont start on Pink Floyd. What a bunch of sanctimonius cunts

 

[Fafnir]

End of the day though, in 1967 the Arabs wanted to wipe Israel of the map and failed. Israel is here to stay, nothing except nucelar bombs is going to change that. The world should move on. We can't go back to every dispute when countries lost territory in a war, otherwise we'd be handing back Southern Sweden and Northern Germany to Denmark, California, New Mexico etc to Mexico, large chunks of Poland to Germany and that's just a few examples in the last 150 years.

Bah since 1658 Skåne is Swedish

 

[Jeros]

If so, wtf ? No doubt far, far more complicated than that, but still.

Why are you an anti-semanite?

I bet my non-existant foreskin you hat all jewz.

You are literally seven Hitlers.

 

[Job]

I don't wish to be scare mongerer but at this rate Israel will take over the world in 2450.
They really are thieving bastards

 

[Scouse]

Well done palestine

The assembly voted 138-9 in favour [of granting the Palestinians non-member observer state status], with 41 nations abstaining

 

[Ctuchik]

Ah, but even unpleasant people can have valid opinions And if Gandhi believed poverty was a good thing, at least he didn't sit in his solid gold house telling other people it was a great idea. He quite literally walked the walk.

Gandhi never believed poverty was a good thing. He was just following his religion trying to be a good Hindu. Which basically says be poor as a student, family supporter as an adult and financially uninterested at old age...

So he was just yet another religious nut job that by sheer accident happened to have some great ideas.

 

[Zenith.UK]

Well done palestine

This is what happens when you gives countries a free and open vote on the issue. It's a small number of powerful countries who oppose the majority view. US and Israel must be spitting feathers right now because they couldn't veto this outcome.
If it was the UN Security Council, US just says "No" every time Palestine gets mentioned and since they have the power of veto, that's the end of the discussion each time.

 

[SilverHood]

This is what happens when you gives countries a free and open vote on the issue. It's a small number of powerful countries who oppose the majority view. US and Israel must be spitting feathers right now because they couldn't veto this outcome.
If it was the UN Security Council, US just says "No" every time Palestine gets mentioned and since they have the power of veto, that's the end of the discussion each time.

This might not be a bad thing. With UN recognition comes responsibilities. You play by the rules or you end up isolated. As for the UN democracy... when the UN human rights commission is made up of Libya, China, Zimbabwe, Cuba and Saudi Arabia... it loses its meaning.

 

[Scouse]

when the UN human rights commission is made up of Libya, China, Zimbabwe, Cuba and Saudi Arabia... it loses its meaning.

As it does when the great satans of the UK and US are involved too.

Torture, extraordinary rendition, war across the world, domestic facism, yadda yadda yadda...

 

[rynnor]

So he was just yet another religious nut job that by sheer accident happened to have some great ideas.

Did he? He didn't want to be ruled by a foreign power - thats fair enough but not exactly startlingly original. What he either missed or ignored was the internal tensions between hindu's and muslims which meant once the Brits left you had the partition and formation of pakistan. Many died on the march out of india and lost everything they had - the ongoing conflict has killed many people - yeah great move...

 

[Scouse]

Yes. He showed how non-cooperation was a wonderful weapon against authoritarian fucktards.

Like how if the people refused to join armed forces and follow the orders of politicians then we could have no war...

 

[Ctuchik]

If it was the UN Security Council, US just says "No" every time Palestine gets mentioned and since they have the power of veto, that's the end of the discussion each time.

Just have the invitation to the next security council meeting get "lost"...

 

[rynnor]

Yes. He showed how non-cooperation was a wonderful weapon against authoritarian fucktards.

Like how if the people refused to join armed forces and follow the orders of politicians then we could have no war...

I think that's a romanticised myth tbh - India got independance because of help during WW2 and because the empire was basically bust - it immediatly descended into chaos and over half a million indians died.

 

[DaGaffer]

Did he? He didn't want to be ruled by a foreign power - thats fair enough but not exactly startlingly original. What he either missed or ignored was the internal tensions between hindu's and muslims which meant once the Brits left you had the partition and formation of pakistan. Many died on the march out of india and lost everything they had - the ongoing conflict has killed many people - yeah great move...

Actually he recognised the issue all too well (which was one of the reasons he was assassinated by a Hindu not a Moslem, he was seen as being too accommodating of them).

 

[DaGaffer]

I think that's a romanticised myth tbh - India got independance because of help during WW2 and because the empire was basically bust - it immediatly descended into chaos and over half a million indians died.

I don't think the "help" had much to do with it (1m Indians fought in WWI for little or no thanks), but the fact that we were skint definitely did; and the Labour landslide in 1945 was a strong message from the British people that they wanted to concentrate on themselves.

 

[Scouse]

Meanwhile, the cuntish Israeli government continues with their outrageous land-grab.

So business as usual.

Of course, it'll be all the Palestinian's fault if they retailiate to this israeli aggression.

 

[rynnor]

Would a palestinian state actually help peace though? If its Hamas backed as seems likely you then have a state side by side with a state its sworn to destroy?

It looks like a step closer to a conventional war especially with the Arab spring turning into the Islamic spring...

 

[rynnor]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/30/egypt-draft-constitution-islamist-assembly

 

[Scouse]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/30/egypt-draft-constitution-islamist-assembly

So, in defence of israeli aggression you talk about the egyptian government.

Pathetic old arguments. Tom was right to post that vid.

 

[rynnor]

So, in defence of israeli aggression you talk about the egyptian government.

Pathetic old arguments. Tom was right to post that vid.

I'm not defending it - I'm highlighting the complexities of the situation.

I notice you didn't answer my question about how a Palestinian state would help peace in the region...

 

[Scouse]

[how would] a Palestinian state would help peace in the region...

For any sort of peace at all you first have to give dignity and freedom to the Palestinian people.

Without that there can never be peace.

 

[rynnor]

For any sort of peace at all you first have to give dignity and freedom to the Palestinian people.

Without that there can never be peace.

That makes a good banner but its short on practical solutions...

 

[Scouse]

Why don't you just say that you support the apartheid, the penning in and collective punishment of an entire people, because you're scared of muslims?

 

[rynnor]

Why don't you just say that you support the apartheid, the penning in and collective punishment of an entire people, because you're scared of muslims?

The more I push you for some sort of realistic solution the more ridiculous your answers become - I'll let people judge for themselves why that might be.

 

[Scouse]

The more I push you for some sort of realistic solution the more ridiculous your answer becomes

I answered your question directly. Your question was "how would a palestinian state help" and my answer was "unless they have freedom and dignity there will NEVER be peace".

That's a direct, succinct and pertinent answer to your direct question. How, exactly, is that "ridiculous"?


I've already stated clearly and multiple times my solution: Single secular state.

What's yours?

 

[rynnor]

Your answer was a statement rather than a proper answer and wooly enough to make a politician smile.

I don't think there is a solution where one side is sworn to destroy the other.

The reason Egypt's transition into a theocracy is important is that it removes a moderating influence on Hamas and the Palestinians and brings them closer inline with Iran.

While the Palestinians are being used to wage a proxy war on behalf of Iran and other hostile states theres no chance of any meaningful peace.