Question Israel / Palestine - Is this accurate ?

[old.user4556]

It goes back long before Christ, but don't let that get in the way of a few hipsters and memes saying "ZOMG FREE PALESTINE".

 

[Gwadien]

Black Hawk Down. Why risk your soldiers lives? To avoid collateral damage? "Missile attack kills 5 Palestine civilians" is better that "5 soldiers killed in failed raid to capture xxx"

I'm not being funny, but that's a completely self-centred view, The 5 soldiers die, they signed up to die by who ever their country tells them two, the 5 Palestine civilians did not.

 

[soze]

I'm not being funny, but that's a completely self-centred view, The 5 soldiers die, they signed up to die by who ever their country tells them two, the 5 Palestine civilians did not.

Try being the leader of a country and telling your citizens that you value the live of one civilian casualty more than risking a squad of your soldiers. It seems like as long as you do your best to minimize collateral damage then you are doing your job. It is the same with every country.

 

[ileks]

Did anyone actually read what I posted? - I said;

Why do they nuke the shit out of a place, why don't they just go and raid it by land and if they have the intelligence service they claim to have, they can just go in, and kill targets that will help the cause, rather than bombard innocent people.

A ground offensive would surely have been a massive escalation... What is this "raid it by land" that you are going on about?

 

[Job]

Fucking drop a nuke on the whole place and call it the second coming..

 

[DaGaffer]

I'm not being funny, but that's a completely self-centred view, The 5 soldiers die, they signed up to die by who ever their country tells them two, the 5 Palestine civilians did not.

To paraphrase George Patton, "the objective is not to die for your country, the objective is take make the other son of a bitch die for his". No military could function if it put the lives of the enemy before its own men (and yes Palestinian civilians are the enemy since Hamas don't put on uniforms and they hide amongst the population and don't forget the Palestinians voted for them). In addition, Israeli troops generally don't "sign up to die" since every able-bodied Israeli man and woman does compulsory military service.

 

[Embattle]

I'm not being funny, but that's a completely self-centred view, The 5 soldiers die, they signed up to die by who ever their country tells them two, the 5 Palestine civilians did not.

Although technically it involves conscripts.

 

[Gwadien]

A ground offensive would surely have been a massive escalation... What is this "raid it by land" that you are going on about?

Well, they have a infamous secret service, why can't that be used to take people out quietly, why make a big song and dance out of it?

It's like pow, just to let you know Mussies, we're still here, and we still own you.

 

[Job]

Did you see that program that showed all theyoung Israelis who go to India to get fucked out of their minds on drugs after serving in the military..its a right of passage for most of the kids

 

[DaGaffer]

Did you see that program that showed all theyoung Israelis who go to India to get fucked out of their minds on drugs after serving in the military..its a right of passage for most of the kids

I've met them, all over the place, Thailand, New Zealand, Argentina. Absolute wankers to a man. Israelis travelling alone were generally all right, but the squaddies were cunts.

 

[mr.Blacky]

I'm pretty sure guns have made a big difference? And I suppose I must have been thinking of the aborigines and alcohol in Australia?

And yes, I'm pretty sure disturbing a culture's natural development and introducing things - concepts, ideas, technology - that it isn't ready for can seriously fuck it up - including borders and all the shit that goes with them. I wasn't just talking about guns and beer, funnily enough I'm aware there's far more to it than that. :facepalm:

Haven't you ever watched Star Trek?

Yeah I did and even then I wondered what they were smoking
What you and the writers were doing was confusing symptoms with causes. Alcohol is an escape from reality, same as other mushrooms drugs etc. Tech doesn't cause it reality does. Having no power how your future is going to be is the main cause I believe.
As for guns well guns were not an invention of the Europeans, first one to use it were the Turks who kicked European ass. Ideas like the white mans burden caused more problems but the idea of a noble savage as what you seem be stating are almost as bad and are rooted in the same principle.

 

[Punishment]

The west should not back them but also we should not get involved, if we had no rights to get involved in Afghanistan and Iraq we have no right to get involved here. Also some of the genocides that have happened in Africa make this look small time and we seem to care even less about that.

You do realise who put them there after WW2 right ?

I think it's fair to say not being involved is kinda off the table.

Personally i think they are a bunch of cunts the way they have annexed Palestinian land

 

[Punishment]

Black Hawk Down. Why risk your soldiers lives? To avoid collateral damage? "Missile attack kills 5 Palestine civilians" is better that "5 soldiers killed in failed raid to capture xxx"

So you are saying their lives are worth less than a british soldiers because of where they come from ?

 

[Job]

We didnt put them there..they sailed in and we fought battles to stop them..eventually the UN rolled over and let them steal the land.

 

[Aoami]

Fucking drop a nuke on the whole place and call it the second coming..

The second coming of Jesus? I think you're missing a fundamental point there.

This whole mess irks me so fucking much because it just seems to be about people taking sides and no one talking about how the problem could be solved. Israel get shit for being the aggressors and having Americas backing. It's true, they're being cunts. But the Palestinian 'state' democratically voted in Hamas. Basically Islamic fundamentalists with a militant wing full of nutters. Cunts.

 

[Zenith.UK]

End of the day though, in 1967 the Arabs wanted to wipe Israel of the map and failed. Israel is here to stay, nothing except nucelar bombs is going to change that. The world should move on. We can't go back to every dispute when countries lost territory in a war, otherwise we'd be handing back Southern Sweden and Northern Germany to Denmark, California, New Mexico etc to Mexico, large chunks of Poland to Germany and that's just a few examples in the last 150 years.

The next nuke used in anger will be on Jerusalem.
I don't approve, but it will be a scorched earth plan. "If we can't have it, no-one can" Since Jerusalem is sacred to every major religion in the region, it's a surefire way to piss EVERYONE off.

 

[SilverHood]

I'm not being funny, but that's a completely self-centred view, The 5 soldiers die, they signed up to die by who ever their country tells them two, the 5 Palestine civilians did not.

But they voted for Hamas. People get the government they deserve.

 

[dysfunction]

Yes but why do you think the voted in Hamas?

Desperation to deal with Israel any way they can? Or

Because they think Hamas would be diplomatic and be able to broker a peace deal?

 

[soze]

So you are saying their lives are worth less than a british soldiers because of where they come from ?

Yes if I am a British General I have a duty of care for my men. And I have 3 choices. 1, a missile strike on a military target which has the possibility for collateral damage. 2, An invasion, I put 1000 of my men in danger to capture one guy and get accused of being heavy handed because lets face it I just invaded the country. 3, send in the SAS. 2 helicopters go in, they get lucky with one pot shot and down a helicopter and boom I need to go in after them.

As I said my Duty of care is too my soldiers so the missile is the only viable option there. But if the guy is hidden next to a school my job then becomes not dropping it when the school is in but timing it after school closes but before everyone gets home from work.

You do realise who put them there after WW2 right ?

I think it's fair to say not being involved is kinda off the table.

Personally i think they are a bunch of cunts the way they have annexed Palestinian land

Yes I do but we still do not have the rights to just storm in there and tell them how to live. The UN are meant to be the World Police not England. Aside from the fact that currently Israel could probably give us a run for our money we simply have no business going in there telling them how to act. If we start invading every time someone is a bully we are going to need a much bigger army.

 

[DaGaffer]

Well, they have a infamous secret service, why can't that be used to take people out quietly, why make a big song and dance out of it?

It's like pow, just to let you know Mussies, we're still here, and we still own you.

I'm sure they're doing that as well. Military strategy involves using your whole toolkit as and when necessary. But the "big song and dance" part is also necessary. Israel knows it can't win in the court of world opinion, so if you can't be the victim, the alternative approach is to be the badass scary motherfucker who no-one messes with. The message Israel are sending to Gaza is "vote Hamas in again and we will fuck you up". Will it work? Probably not. But letting Hamas fire rockets and not fire back because of some ridiculous idea of "fairness" isn't a plan any Israeli is going to vote for either, because if Hamas get away with it unapposed this time, that's a green light for bigger and better rockets next time.

 

[throdgrain]

Aye, i think the history goes further back than 1946.

On a more personal note, fucking jews.

Racist. ?

 

[throdgrain]

So you are saying their lives are worth less than a british soldiers because of where they come from ?

Of course they fucking are. Christ there are some fucking childish schoolchild mentalitys on the thread.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So you are saying their lives are worth less than a british soldiers because of where they come from ?

I don't think they are from a neutral point of view, but that POV changes depending on the country.

As a Finn, the lives of israeli and british soldiers are equally important, but if i was british then i'd probably side with the british being more important.

Racist. ?

Wouldn't it be equal to all races/sexual preferences if hating someone because of X isn't racist, but just hating?

 

[old.Osy]

None of it matters. My hair still grows, birds are still chirping. Unfairness and injustice are present all over the world in relative quantities. Not gonna lose sleep on a particular case.

And yes, of course i'm being subjective.

 

[Scouse]

Yes I do but we still do not have the rights to just storm in there and tell them how to live. The UN are meant to be the World Police not England.

Lol.

The UN would LOVE to deal with Israel. Love to. They pass resolution after resolution against Israel.

But to what end? Oh, yes, the US and UK veto it (actually, the UK tends to "abstain" from the vote - lol).

So it seems we ARE telling them how to live - by lending support to a country that runs a violent apartheid system against a prisoner population we say "it's fine - murder who you like - we'll keep the UN at bay for you"...

We're cunts.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Unfairness and injustice are present all over the world in relative quantities

Even next door to you in any likely case.

 

[Scouse]

Of course they fucking are. Christ there are some fucking childish schoolchild mentalitys on the thread.

That's not true tho throddy.

Palestinians are human beings, just like our british soldiers.

I could argue that their lives are more valuable than our lads' because they've not been moronic enough to sign a "I'll kill anyone I'm told for a paycheck" charter.

But it would be wrong to do that - just because people in the army are murderous idiots doesn't mean that their lives have no value.

 

[throdgrain]

Dont be such a fucking hippy Scouse. Our servicemen sign up to do a job, to defend and protect the interests of our country. And If we didnt have them we would be in a bad state in no time at all. Dont kid yourself otherwise.

Consequently ; they are trained men and women who are paid to serve our country, so they are more valuable than cillivians of another country. Pretty straightfoward.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Consequently ; they are trained men and women who are paid to serve our country, so they are more valuable than cillivians of another country for the british.

Fixed it.

 

[Scouse]

don't you dare deviate from our idiot monkey mindset. Chimps fight territorial battles where they murder others of the same species and we should stay like that. I, for one, think anyone who can envisage a better way of doing things should STFU because they're obviously fucking dumb. Things will NEVER change - and I'll help that lack of change happen - starting with calling people who wouldn't murder other people and can see war for what it is (such as Einstein) hippies, in an effort to dismiss their more enlightened views

Fixed for you m8


Edit: Toht has, with his "fixed it" post above given perfect weight to my argument - it's a monkey-like territorial mindset that humans have. It's retarded and that way of thinking needs to die if we're ever going to have peace...

Nothing will end war until the people themselves refuse to go to war