Question Israel / Palestine - Is this accurate ?

[opticle]

If so, wtf ? No doubt far, far more complicated than that, but still.

 

[megadave]

Israel are cunts and so are the west for backing them.

 

[Gwadien]

I wonder when the 'west' will actually genuinely give a fuck, it's like one of those well known dirty little secrets that no-one cares about

 

[dysfunction]

I don't think that picture is far from the truth.

Israel think they can do whatever they like because many years ago millions of jews were killed.
And most western governments turn a blind eye to their murdering ways...and more often than not shed a bad light on the Palestinians even when its clear that Israel are causing the problems

Even most of the press do the same. Quite often Israel are shown to be the victims while the Palistinians live in dumps and can't go anywhere

 

[soze]

The west should not back them but also we should not get involved, if we had no rights to get involved in Afghanistan and Iraq we have no right to get involved here. Also some of the genocides that have happened in Africa make this look small time and we seem to care even less about that.

 

[Embattle]

A picture may speak a thousand words but it tends simplify a complex issue.

 

[old.user4556]

I hate to do a really bad Tohtori special and argue for the sake of arguing, but the whole history of the world as far back as Jebus of Nasdaq was command, conquer, invade, border changing etc. It seems to be cool to stick up for Palestine at the moment. Personally I don't like what's going on.

Just look at Northern Ireland - same shit.

 

[megadave]

It's not as if the west turn a blind eye, the US give them billions in finance and a whole load of other support.

 

[Tom]

What a fucking stupid picture.

 

[SilverHood]

It's a biased picture. There has never been such as thing as "Palestine", the left most picture shows the British administered Mandatory Palestine. 1947 picture shows the UN plan for a partition of British Palestine. Right most pictures shows only Palestine controlled areas, not those under joint control, which is 50x larger.

End of the day though, in 1967 the Arabs wanted to wipe Israel of the map and failed. Israel is here to stay, nothing except nucelar bombs is going to change that. The world should move on. We can't go back to every dispute when countries lost territory in a war, otherwise we'd be handing back Southern Sweden and Northern Germany to Denmark, California, New Mexico etc to Mexico, large chunks of Poland to Germany and that's just a few examples in the last 150 years.

 

[old.user4556]

The world should move on. We can't go back to every dispute when countries lost territory in a war, otherwise we'd be handing back Southern Sweden and Northern Germany to Denmark, California, New Mexico etc to Mexico, large chunks of Poland to Germany and that's just a few examples in the last 150 years.

This.

 

[Raven]

The world should move on. We can't go back to every dispute when countries lost territory in a war, otherwise we'd be handing back Southern Sweden and Northern Germany to Denmark, California, New Mexico etc to Mexico, large chunks of Poland to Germany and that's just a few examples in the last 150 years.

That's all nice but they are still grabbing land from another foreign country and still using disproportionate, indiscriminate bombing to stop a couple of souped up fireworks, it has shown time and again that blowing up schools and shit will not stop a minority of people firing pop caps over the fence.

 

[old.Tohtori]

That's all nice but they are still grabbing land from another foreign country and still using disproportionate, indiscriminate bombing to stop a couple of souped up fireworks, it has shown time and again that blowing up schools and shit will not stop a minority of people firing pop caps over the fence.

Hmm. Sounds familiar.

 

[Wij]

Souped up fireworks? Iranian supplied rockets and missiles fired at populated areas. Not military targets. The only reason that so few Israelis died is because they have advanced missile interception systems. Even so, the fact that they can shoot most of them down doesn't make it ok. You'd just ignore it?

Frankly the Hamas leaders are stupid for letting Iran use them like that. It was always going to provoke this response.

People rightly criticise Israel for trying to dodge the issue of civilian casualties in gaza and trying to pretend they didn't happen but those same people go silent when Hamas is actually celebrating the deaths of Israeli civilians.

I'm not trying to defend Israel but people should accept that no one is the blameless wronged side here.

 

[Gwadien]

Souped up fireworks? Iranian supplied rockets and missiles fired at populated areas. Not military targets. The only reason that so few Israelis died is because they have advanced missile interception systems. Even so, the fact that they can shoot most of them down doesn't make it ok. You'd just ignore it?

Frankly the Hamas leaders are stupid for letting Iran use them like that. It was always going to provoke this response.

People rightly criticise Israel for trying to dodge the issue of civilian casualties in gaza and trying to pretend they didn't happen but those same people go silent when Hamas is actually celebrating the deaths of Israeli civilians.

I'm not trying to defend Israel but people should accept that no one is the blameless wronged side here.

Yes, but as the more advanced Nation, as they'd probably claim, shouldn't they use the defence systems, well, for defence? - IE, not retaliate in the way they do by sending shit loads of rockets over, how about actual targeted land raids and actual negotiations for peace rather than acting with knee jerk reactions?

You don't see us nuking all middle eastern countries that have links with terrorism.

Give the vast population a reason to not hate you.

 

[DaGaffer]

Yes, but as the more advanced Nation, as they'd probably claim, shouldn't they use the defence systems, well, for defence? - IE, not retaliate in the way they do by sending shit loads of rockets over, how about actual targeted land raids and actual negotiations for peace rather than acting with knee jerk reactions?

You don't see us nuking all middle eastern countries that have links with terrorism.

Give the vast population a reason to not hate you.

Oh ffs, its like The Sesame Street School of Diplomacy around here.

 

[throdgrain]

Yes, but as the more advanced Nation, as they'd probably claim, shouldn't they use the defence systems, well, for defence? - IE, not retaliate in the way they do by sending shit loads of rockets over, how about actual targeted land raids and actual negotiations for peace rather than acting with knee jerk reactions?

You don't see us nuking all middle eastern countries that have links with terrorism.

Give the vast population a reason to not hate you.

What? People kill thier citizens, and you'd have them not fight back? Really?

You're not a Labour voter are you?

 

[rynnor]

Why do stupid people always look for simplistic solutions that dont exist?

 

[Chilly]

Both sides are, have been and will be cunts: the solution is for other powers to get involved and force a truce. That's kind of what's been happening. Advanced missile defence is actually quite cunning because if it works almost 100% it reduces the average israeli's desire for revenge for last weeks/months/etc rocket attack and would hopefully lead to a warming of relations between the sides.

 

[opticle]

Both sides are, have been and will be cunts: the solution is for other powers to get involved and force a truce.

I think that's true to a point. It's an unfortunate situation when things become international and others get involved.. It's all very well forcing democracy, peace, etc. on a people - obviously it saves lives in the immediate situation - but imo at some point you have to let those countries come to those ideals on their own, or they will always fall back into old habits.

The West really ruined a lot of African countries by introducing technology (e.g. guns) and practices (alcohol) that their society just wasn't ready for - they're still recovering from that and it's going to be a very, very long time before they do.

 

[Lamp]

The only viable condition is a two-state solution. Even then, it requires a monumental effort on BOTH sides to at least attempt to be civilised and try to coincide in peace. There are extremists on both sides, and while there is a father teaching his son the old ways, politics, blind hatred and lies, there will never be peace. The site is sacred to three religions. There have been wars there for the past 5000 years.

Oh, and by the way, that map is utter dog-shit. Self-serving polarising unhelpful dog-shit. Its shit like this on the internet that really doesn't help anyone understand the issues.

 

[mr.Blacky]

That's all nice but they are still grabbing land from another foreign country

Which foreign country? There was no independent Palestine, reason being that Egypt, Jordan and Syria wanted the land and refused the two state system. Palestinians (oh lets include Lebanon too) were and are the whipping boys of them, Iran and Israel.
The rest of your post is just too silly.

 

[mr.Blacky]

The West really ruined a lot of African countries by introducing technology (e.g. guns) and practices (alcohol) that their society just wasn't ready for - they're still recovering from that and it's going to be a very, very long time before they do.

Really? this is what you believe?
You know that the oldest recipe of beer that was found is in Egypt, that is in Africa?
European (lets not say that Australia or Canada had anything to do with it) messed up Africa by drawing borders that made no sense. Tech and even practices had little effect in comparison to that.

 

[megadave]

The media reporting on the whole affair always seems very unbalanced, no where seems to have bothered reporting it was actually Israel who broke the ceasefire in the first place.

 

[Raven]

But but, poor Israel

 

[opticle]

Oh, and by the way, that map is utter dog-shit. Self-serving polarising unhelpful dog-shit. Its shit like this on the internet that really doesn't help anyone understand the issues.

Fair enough, that's why I posted it - I wanted to know how true it really was. Mind explaining what's wrong with it? That's the thing to do to stop the misinformation

Really? this is what you believe?
You know that the oldest recipe of beer that was found is in Egypt, that is in Africa?

I'm pretty sure guns have made a big difference? And I suppose I must have been thinking of the aborigines and alcohol in Australia?

And yes, I'm pretty sure disturbing a culture's natural development and introducing things - concepts, ideas, technology - that it isn't ready for can seriously fuck it up - including borders and all the shit that goes with them. I wasn't just talking about guns and beer, funnily enough I'm aware there's far more to it than that. :facepalm:

Haven't you ever watched Star Trek?

 

[Gwadien]

Did anyone actually read what I posted? - I said;

Why do they nuke the shit out of a place, why don't they just go and raid it by land and if they have the intelligence service they claim to have, they can just go in, and kill targets that will help the cause, rather than bombard innocent people.

 

[rynnor]

Did anyone actually read what I posted? - I said;

Why do they nuke the shit out of a place, why don't they just go and raid it by land and if they have the intelligence service they claim to have, they can just go in, and kill targets that will help the cause, rather than bombard innocent people.

Too dangerous for their operatives.

 

[soze]

Did anyone actually read what I posted? - I said;

Why do they nuke the shit out of a place, why don't they just go and raid it by land and if they have the intelligence service they claim to have, they can just go in, and kill targets that will help the cause, rather than bombard innocent people.

Black Hawk Down. Why risk your soldiers lives? To avoid collateral damage? "Missile attack kills 5 Palestine civilians" is better that "5 soldiers killed in failed raid to capture xxx"

 

[fettoken]

Aye, i think the history goes further back than 1946.

On a more personal note, fucking jews.