Is It Leagal To use a crafting macro as long as you are presant at the computer?

[Juj]

Since when was this a whinethread?
This trhead was started to find out the legality of macroing while sitting at the computer..
I only did this because i was informed that what i did was completly leagal.
What the thread has become is a disscusion on the same subject.

The fact that the thread touches on a few of GOA's many shadowy manerisms does not make it a whine thread.

 

[acei]

Please feel free to define what advantages i had over other crafters?

FFS If you use a macro program it means several things are automated how you cannot see this as a advantage is beyond me. Macro programs are designed to automate repetative tasks. You may have still had to press a couple of buttons but you avoided the majority of keys by using a macro program.

 

[Olgaline]

fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck thanks since when? if you say any patch other than 1.69 im gonna slam my head between the firedoors

since 1.68

 

[sibanac]

Since when was this a whinethread?
This trhead was started to find out the legality of macroing while sitting at the computer..
I only did this because i was informed that what i did was completly leagal.
What the thread has become is a disscusion on the same subject.

The fact that the thread touches on a few of GOA's many shadowy manerisms does not make it a whine thread.

The fact that you got banned for it must have been a hint it was not allowed

 

[Teh FnoRd]

I only did this because i was informed that what i did was completly leagal.
What the thread has become is a disscusion on the same subject.

informed from where? GoA and Mythic have allways been very clear that using a 3rd party program that affects the game is forbidden and that those cought will be punnished.

 

[Urme the Legend]

fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck thanks since when? if you say any patch other than 1.69 im gonna slam my head between the firedoors

1.68.. or 1.67.. not 1.69 :wub:

 

[Juj]

The fact that you got banned for it must have been a hint it was not allowed

Do you always accept what you are told by another person?

 

[Teh FnoRd]

Do you always accept what you are told by another person?

I only did this because i was informed that what i did was completly leagal

 

[Juj]

How does asking more people about a subject equal accepting what im told from antoher person?

jeeeez

 

[SkarIronfist]

Requeil

Don't be so presumptous to know what you will be told to do if your business model is affected by a serious migration to other titles. I agree that it is unlikely that Bans will be switched countermanded.

You currently have a strong grip on the French/German market. WoW may be 1st serious contender you have in that market place.

Also if you are actively going after cheats, then how can not saying anything be good, if your goal is to remove all cheating ? It should be shouted from the tree tops that x no. have been banned in a month. I don't need to know the names, I just would interested in numbers.

Or is it the case that cheating is more prevalent than we are aware ?

 

[Xplo]

why don't GOA gogo ban al nostromo users then? xD
or half of the crafting community? xD

Radar users on US get a 7 day suspension, here you get a full ban for just using a macro, when we use radar will they come to our house and chop off our balls?

 

[Urme the Legend]

when we use radar will they come to our house and chop off our balls?

You could always wish they did... tbh .. it isn't "just" a macro.. it's a cheat/thirdparty program... that is doing something that wasn't implemented in the game at the beginning..

 

[Xplo]

it's just that the vast majority of people who are caught don't make whinethreads about it on a public forum.

This isn't a whine thread, its common sense, at least a warning should be given before totally suspending an account.
And i'm shure you're board of direction at Wanado will give a slap on the wrist when you perma ban to many people when the next generation of mmorpg's will come out in europe.

Money talks bullshit walks.

 

[Urme the Legend]

This isn't a whine thread, its common sense, at least a warning should be given before totally suspending an account.
And i'm shure you're board of direction at Wanado will give a slap on the wrist when you perma ban to many people when the next generation of mmorpg's will come out in europe.

Money talks bullshit walks.

You get a warning when you press Accept each time you login? ... it's like driving drunk.. you don't get a warning when you get caught

 

[Svendoc]

when we use radar will they come to our house and chop off our balls?

roflmao

Well lets face it of the 2 cheats, Macro crafting and Radar I know which one players hate more, yet do we see here of any bans or measure GoA take to combat it ? I have not.

 

[Shike]

This isn't a whine thread, its common sense, at least a warning should be given before totally suspending an account.
And i'm shure you're board of direction at Wanado will give a slap on the wrist when you perma ban to many people when the next generation of mmorpg's will come out in europe.

Money talks bullshit walks.

heh... you have an odd attitude to this tbh

What makes you think that the silent mass out there (that dont use irc or post on FH) which is an enormous majority btw, think that cheaters that get caught shouldnt be banned? And tbh, at least I rather see cheaters getting caught and then banned and kicked out from the game than given a second chanse tbh, once a cheater on purpose; always a cheater in my opinion. One day a macroer, next day a speedhacker, third day a radarer. With a warning/suspension, there is NOTHING that can ever guarantee that the player in question wont give it a shot with this new hack, the new radar even though he once was caught macroing and warned for it. The difference between this macroer and the normal noncheating player is: The macroer took one step which wasnt allowed and thus broke a "holy" rule, to not cheat in a MMORPG. He shouldnt have done this and deserve nothing but the treatment followed upon his own actions that he himself chose to take.

Online gaming is a funny thing, we are all hidden behind computers, we have a virtual personality, some of us think we have the possibility to do something we normally normally wouldnt (hopefully) do in real life and thus fall for the temptation to give it a try and break a license agreement but Id say, the normal gamer _know_ it is indeed wrong to do so and wont even give it a thought. Those normal gamers kinda need to be protected by the gameprovider before the cheaters become too many, otherwise it in its turn will cause /cancels. The cheaters dont need to be protected from the normal players and treated with silkgloves if you get what I mean.

Juj, you claim you thought you wasnt infact breaking the EULA by using a macro (3rd party program that interfer with how DAoC behaves) because you was told so by someone else, I'd suggest you simply read the EULA in next game you play tbh and trust less of what others say. If you had done this, you would have seen at once that it is not allowed to use 3rd party programs, GOA have stated so in their news on www.camelot-europe.com aswell iirc. The case is crystalclear to me, you cheated when you thought you could do what you did and deserve a ban, lesson is also crystalclear. Read what you agree with when you press ok to login, if one has questions when the EULA might be fuzzy, why not ask rightnow and get a formal answer from GOA so you are in no way under the threat of a ban instead of trusting people that obviosly dont know? I would have asked rightnow, I have done so in the past when we had an issue that needed a straight answer that held 100% truth and not speculations.

gaaaaaaawd I can rant I know sorry and I understand if nobody even bother to read everything

 

[Thorwyn]

Please feel free to define what advantages i had over other crafters

Why would you use it if it didn´t give you an advantage? The advantage in your case was, that you were able to take care of your son AND craft at the same time. Another crafter in the same situation would have been forced to stop crafting.

And i'm shure you're board of direction at Wanado will give a slap on the wrist when you perma ban to many people when the next generation of mmorpg's will come out in europe.

No, that´s definitely NOT gonna happen. Because that would damage the faith and the confidence amongst the customers even more. If they´d handle direct competition on the market that way, they´d basically bow down to all the "oh well, they caught me using Radar but nevermind, I`m gonna switch to WoW anyways because DAOC sucks big times" attitudes. Cheating has to be treated with all consequences, because only a cheatfree environment will satisfy the playerbase.

Slaps on the wrists and warnings are useless. They only ENCOURAGE people to try and use cheats untill they´re being spotted.

And Juj... about taking legal actions etc.etc.: I hear this threat every day from customers who´re not satisfied with our software and want to go as far as International Court in Den Haag and UN if neccessary.
It´s good for a laugh, nothing more.

 

[Thegreatest]

If my macro was giving me insta LGM then the comparison would be fine. However...

Ok, I know you got what I mean but you're still trying to talk around it instead of giving a direct reply. Here you are then:

What about using a 3rd party program that automatically kills mobs for you, lets you sit down and regenerate hp/power/endurance and when you're rested automatically keeps going on with killing mobs? I've heard about such program, it excists. Isn't this the same as macro crafting? Now to the unfair point: When xping with such 3rd party program you're doing less effort than other players to gain levels, thus it's unfair, thus i'ts forbidden.

I hope you got it now.

 

[Juj]

Why would you use it if it didn´t give you an advantage? The advantage in your case was, that you were able to take care of your son AND craft at the same time. Another crafter in the same situation would have been forced to stop crafting.

Good point...

And Juj... about taking legal actions etc.etc.: I hear this threat every day from customers who´re not satisfied with our software and want to go as far as International Court in Den Haag and UN if neccessary.
It´s good for a laugh, nothing more.

Exactly the attitude you could expect from a GOA representative.

 

[Thegreatest]

Good point...




Exactly the attitude you could expect from a GOA representative.

Where did you get from that Thorwyn is a GOA representative...djeez

 

[Thorwyn]

Exactly the attitude you could expect from a GOA representative.

...has nothing to do with attitude mate. It´s just that threatening companies with law suits seems to be en vogue and - at the same time - they´re almost always lacking even the most hypothetical prospect of success. I`m not trying to stop you, go ahead and try if you want and have enough money to do it.
But posting the intention on a board as a display of how serious you´re taking the issue will get you nowhere. It´s just considered a verbal /flex on the other side.

 

[dapprman]

Juj, you claim you thought you wasnt infact breaking the EULA by using a macro (3rd party program that interfer with how DAoC behaves) because you was told so by someone else, I'd suggest you simply read the EULA in next game you play tbh and trust less of what others say. If you had done this, you would have seen at once that it is not allowed to use 3rd party programs, GOA have stated so in their news on www.camelot-europe.com aswell iirc. The case is crystalclear to me, you cheated when you thought you could do what you did and deserve a ban, lesson is also crystalclear. Read what you agree with when you press ok to login, if one has questions when the EULA might be fuzzy, why not ask rightnow and get a formal answer from GOA so you are in no way under the threat of a ban instead of trusting people that obviosly dont know? I would have asked rightnow, I have done so in the past when we had an issue that needed a straight answer that held 100% truth and not speculations.

Lets get several points very very straight.
1. Juj was using an automated key press program to do an individual key press, not a macro program.
2. The EULA (the legal part of the document) states programs that interface with the game. The tool he was using is a windows application that interfaces with windows, not the game.
3. The EULA is weak. It might be water tight in French, but it is open to abuse in English.
4. Just because the ToCs are refered to in the EULA, that does not mean they are legally binding, that is of course, unless French law differs from UK law on those ares (there are differences in the legal systems).

I'm not condoning Juj, and originally he just wanted to let things lie, however a number of us do feel he has been mistreated and mi-handled by GOA, and before you harp on about hacks and programs that directly affect the game read point 2 again.

I agree with Shirtan, the way the rules have been interpreted infer that upgrading your graphics drivers and gaining a visual performance, or speeding up zone laoding, will get you a ban.

The English version of the EULA needs rewriting.

And dont; forget, goign agaisnt the spirit of the game is not necessarilly cheating. Abusing zone walls (remember all those necros hiding their pets in bridges) gets only a warning despite the fact the player gets a far greater advantage, and running round killing mobs in other people's fights is not agaisnt the EULA< but most certainly agaisnt the spirit and is more than likely going to go unpunished.

I agree with some one else's comments ealier. GOA ought to produce monthly figures of people banned, with a break down for which offences - complete with differentiation between crafting macros, keyboard assists (as in this case), radar, etc ....

 

[Thorwyn]

Where did you get from that Thorwyn is a GOA representative...djeez

err... of course I`M NOT!! a GoA representative!
I just happen to work in the same industry.

 

[Thegreatest]

You won't have a chance against GoA cause you accept their rules before starting the game. In these rules they clearly state that "GoA can ban your account whenever they like to" (of course not exactly this but it comes down to the same). Good luck but you can better spend the money to pay a lawyer etc for something else.

 

[liste]

well, a cheater who whines about being punished, after openly admitting that he cheated.

I'm certainly entertained

 

[SkarIronfist]

I think people need to be a little be careful of being a bit to wound up by this problem.

I am sure that a very small percentage of the posters for and against this problem, can trully take the moral high ground and say they have never downloaded a game, music or film over the internet, and have not broken international copyright law.

The only reason GOA/Wanadoo are protected from this problem, is due to the monthly payment system. I am sure GOA/Wanadoo themselves are well above reproach and all there pc/servers are running with legimate software. So that that they can trully take the moral high ground

I personally would give the guy a break. A slap on the wrist. Remembering that you are not banning the character you are banning the account. A simple matter to set a warning flag, that any more breaches of trust will not
tolerated and it will be asta la vista baby.

To be honest its only a game, which most of us take a bit to seriously.

 

[Darzil]

Why does this give you an advantage ?

Very simple. I'll explain.

Crafters (like myself) get asked to salvage a lot of kit, and frequently people want to sell or part trade DF seals with you. Now, I tend to offer a good % less than what I'll have once I finish trinketting, cos it's boring, and I have better things to do with the time.

However, if you're not having to spend your time doing the trinketting, you can take on the jobs for a smaller %, because time is now irrelevant. So, you get more money than other trinketters, and end up better off.

That sounds like an advantage to me.

Darzil

 

[Juj]

Why does this give you an advantage ?

Very simple. I'll explain.

Crafters (like myself) get asked to salvage a lot of kit, and frequently people want to sell or part trade DF seals with you. Now, I tend to offer a good % less than what I'll have once I finish trinketting, cos it's boring, and I have better things to do with the time.

However, if you're not having to spend your time doing the trinketting, you can take on the jobs for a smaller %, because time is now irrelevant. So, you get more money than other trinketters, and end up better off.

That sounds like an advantage to me.

Darzil

Acctually no...

As mentioned before although a macro was in use I was at no time afk.
Meaning that I use as much time and infact at times more time due to the fact that the key is depressed at regular intarvals and not at the time of the "ding".

However all this said and done.. I'm quite happy with the advantage that is gained by myself using this macro as was mentioned a little higher up. When i say happy, I mean that I agree it does give me an unfair advantage compaired to other crafters in the same situation.

 

[Sugah]

I have to agree that with goa on this one. I've spent the past few weeks leveling up a Spellcrafter. Hes at 976 skill as we speak and i can 100% say that i have been there and pressed every single key stroke myself. I've also ran the trade skill quest probably 20-30 times so people who macro craft really annoy me. Lets hope to see more macro crafters gone and i pray that goa gets the radar detection ASAP.

 

[Kreig]

Server log:

1200:01 UserX presses key 1
1200:30 Item is made
1200:31 UserX presses key 1
1201:00 Item is made
1201:01 UserX presses key 1
1201:30 Item is made
1201:31 UserX presses key 1
1202:00 Item is made
1202:01 UserX presses key 1
1202:30 Item is made

Rinse and repeat...wtfpwnd

Normally GOA tell you what your crime was when they terminate your acc, I take it you got "3rd party program usage" or something along those lines.

If thats the case just make a few macros with random time differentials, cut/copy/paste mix it all around, perhaps make a few various different selection of preset macros. They couldnt prove shit imo

Apart from the fact that just because there are xxx secs of time intervals doesnt prove either that its a macro. I can sit at my pc and bang off a few Ks of hinges nps with consistancy, baring in mind that about 200 bars fills my char with hinges ( few bits of junk/loot etc) which isnt a great deal, to which you have to sell anyway so....