Is It Leagal To use a crafting macro as long as you are presant at the computer?

[Balbor]

macroing is illegal because mythic and GOA havn't found a way to make money out of it yet.

The resion you can alt-tab is becasue they reaslied that they would have band lots of customers with 2 accounts if they didn't.

 

[Elewyth(TLSOA)]

have to agree with req on this one...u cheated = ban ...end of story.

never ever use anything that isnt available via this game.

 

[Aremeriel]

Use of the ingame /macro command is not use of a 3rd party program and is not therefore infringing.

Maybe I should ask the question I asked in my first post again, seeing as this thread now have your attention.
What about keybinding "gadgets", like MS Sidewinder Strategic Commander or Nostromo speedpad? are they considered 3rd party? After all, you must have a program to run it, but then, so may you have to with some of the mouses with more buttons too...

 

[Tafaya Anathas]

I am the GM who dealt with this case.
For the usual reasons I'm not going to comment on the specifics.

All I will say is that the use of 3rd party programs will get your account terminated instantly.

No warnings. No 'slaps on the wrist'.

Use of the ingame /macro command is not use of a 3rd party program and is not therefore infringing.

The only other thing that I will say is that we use multiple different means to detect afk crafting and not merely server logs. We don't terminate an account unless we are 100% sure that an offence is being committed.

I will not tolerate any cheating on my servers.

While it's ok to not tolerate cheating, the difference between macrocrafting and for example radar using is too large to be handled equally (permaban) imo.

 

[cougar]

No warnings. No 'slaps on the wrist'.

good! no 3 day ban for radars ala mythic

 

[Darzil]

Nostromo isn't illegal as long as you're only doing one key = one keyboard key stuff.

The moment you use it's hit this key, then wait, then hit it again functionality, you're cheating. It's been clarified in a few articles on both Mythic and GoA news.

Oh, and I think I've seen proof numerous times that half the population on Prydwen aren't radar users. If they were, I'd not have seen so many zergs pretty much wiped by single Hib / Mid PBAoE groups whilst standing outside keeps !

Darzil

 

[Juj]

I am the GM who dealt with this case.
For the usual reasons I'm not going to comment on the specifics.

All I will say is that the use of 3rd party programs will get your account terminated instantly.

No warnings. No 'slaps on the wrist'.

Use of the ingame /macro command is not use of a 3rd party program and is not therefore infringing.

The only other thing that I will say is that we use multiple different means to detect afk crafting and not merely server logs. We don't terminate an account unless we are 100% sure that an offence is being committed.

I will not tolerate any cheating on my servers.

hmmmm I was still not afk.
I have been banned for being afk while using a macro that you convinently changed to the 3rd party thing after i pointed out to you i was not afk..

Frankly I think you have crossed the line on this one as do the majority of the people here..
I am still unsure of my leagal rights in this matter and they are being looked into.
If a case is possible it will be put forward and the people here will be informed of it's progress.

You lit the fire now you can burn in it...

 

[Path]

talk to ur bank say they have withdrawn cash from ur account, even tho u dont subscribe anymore

Which is also illegal and goes to show how much character you have, I suppose.

 

[IainC]

Maybe I should ask the question I asked in my first post again, seeing as this thread now have your attention.
What about keybinding "gadgets", like MS Sidewinder Strategic Commander or Nostromo speedpad? are they considered 3rd party? After all, you must have a program to run it, but then, so may you have to with some of the mouses with more buttons too...

I answered this question before in another thread but I'll repeat myself here.
Devices like this have both legitimate and infringing functions. Mapping keys to a different device to make game play more comfortable isn't a problem.
Using the programmable macro functions on those devices to automate significant portions of the game is infringing and will get you into trouble.

 

[Aremeriel]

Nostromo isn't illegal as long as you're only doing one key = one keyboard key stuff.

The moment you use it's hit this key, then wait, then hit it again functionality, you're cheating. It's been clarified in a few articles on both Mythic and GoA news.

Hmmm.. from what i know of them, you have some buttons acting like a shift button thingie and some buttons acting like number buttons (which can be "shift"ed, with the shift button thingies). I guess using shift1+num5 on a nostromo or sc to get F8 on key would be ok, but is pressing shift2+4 for /assist playername or /loc ok or is that considered 3rd party macro?

 

[Flimgoblin]

I think if it did:

/assist playername
debuff
stun (queuing it in the spell queue)
wait 3 seconds
dd

it'd be bad

 

[sibanac]

Hmmm.. from what i know of them, you have some buttons acting like a shift button thingie and some buttons acting like number buttons (which can be "shift"ed, with the shift button thingies). I guess using shift1+num5 on a nostromo or sc to get F8 on key would be ok, but is pressing shift2+4 for /assist playername or /loc ok or is that considered 3rd party macro?

one press off a button (not counting shift keys) should never do anything that cant be acomplished not using the device

e.g : shift + 4 does a /assist playername is ok
but shift +4 does "/lastattacker" + mezz isnt allowd

 

[Cozak]

Server log:

1200:01 UserX presses key 1
1200:30 Item is made
1200:31 UserX presses key 1
1201:00 Item is made
1201:01 UserX presses key 1
1201:30 Item is made
1201:31 UserX presses key 1
1202:00 Item is made
1202:01 UserX presses key 1
1202:30 Item is made

Rinse and repeat...wtfpwnd

Normally GOA tell you what your crime was when they terminate your acc, I take it you got "3rd party program usage" or something along those lines.

When im crafting i just stand in the same place, read a book and press the same key everytime an item is made, therefore i would have the same serverlogs as that... this mean im gonna have to run around aegir every 10 minutes to prove im not afk and not get banned?

 

[Etzel]

You may not use any third party software to modify the Game to change Game play.

I think you're misunderstanding 'modify the game' here, this isn't just straight hacking files, speedhacks modify the game without touching files, just like macro programs modify the game because they are interacting with the environment in a way not specifically intended.

As for how they caught you, are you certain you haven't replied to cus3tomers3 in th3e tim3e honour3ed macr3o way3?

BTW every MMO i've ever played is on 1 month renewal for a reason......

 

[IainC]

When im crafting i just stand in the same place, read a book and press the same key everytime an item is made, therefore i would have the same serverlogs as that... this mean im gonna have to run around aegir every 10 minutes to prove im not afk and not get banned?

The short answer is no Cozak.

 

[Tafaya Anathas]

When im crafting i just stand in the same place, read a book and press the same key everytime an item is made, therefore i would have the same serverlogs as that... this mean im gonna have to run around aegir every 10 minutes to prove im not afk and not get banned?

I assume they are using proper timestamp in the log, if not, ph34r

 

[Sortbane]

The intervals on a macro tool would be at the spot each millisecond making it humanly impossible to "replicate" it, so each time you hear the ding you're not pressing it at the same time as the last... and most peeps occasionally (sp?) look at the screen or just keeps an eye on it sometimes while turning a page looking for the blue /send text that might pop sometimes

 

[Shike]

When im crafting i just stand in the same place, read a book and press the same key everytime an item is made, therefore i would have the same serverlogs as that... this mean im gonna have to run around aegir every 10 minutes to prove im not afk and not get banned?

you are a human, not a machine, you cannot press down a key in an exact interval like a machine can thus you are revealed in this way as a noncheater like the original poster was found to be a cheater.

Juj you tard, you cheated, got caught and GOA chose an accounttermination as a proper punishment. Whats the problem? You wanna cheat and not get punished if caught? Get real. Whats next, ppl get caught with radar and come crying about a ban??? wtf.. i was using radar but wasnt afk..! can i get a suspension instead pleeeease? whaaaaa... QQ...


All cheaters should get instabanned imo, but im harsch regarding this subject and simply hate everything that has to do with cheats, be it something as silly as a craftermacroer, or a radaruser.. both are shit worth in my book.

 

[Cozak]

Okis thank you for replies no longer scared to craft

 

[dapprman]

I am the GM who dealt with this case.
For the usual reasons I'm not going to comment on the specifics.
The only other thing that I will say is that we use multiple different means to detect afk crafting and not merely server logs. We don't terminate an account unless we are 100% sure that an offence is being committed.

I will not tolerate any cheating on my servers.

Shame none of the RvR cheats seem to get caught. I take it the only hacks you can spot are crafting ones ?

And I still insist that automating a keypress (not a combination) through a progam that interacts with Windows, not the game itself, is not covered by the EULA.

 

[AccidentProne]

On a related topic, what would be goa's view on the use of Powerstrip?

Basically, I've got a fairly knackered old monitor on which I'm unable to increase the brightness to a reasonable level. This means that I can barely see anything at night time in game. To get around this, someone recomended that I use a program called Powerstrip in order to increase brightness.

Now I'm just wondering whether this would be considered illegal use of 3rd party software, in which case I'll have to resort to only playing during daytime hours.

 

[SkarIronfist]

Requiel,

Why don't you GMs actually deal with real issues in the game, like Radar. Maybe because its a lot harder.

As a poster pointed out earlier, if crafting wasn't so god damm boring it wouldn't be a problem and didn't follow the same boring path and is so easily exploitable.

Maybe change your crafting model to skill tree like Eve (You don't even have to play the game to skill up), or SWG crafting.

Did you ever wonder why Mythic put sounds into the game for when the crafted item is finished, it can't have been for just atmosphere?

It was so you could sit at your computer reading a book, with 1 finger (thinks about which finger) waiting to hear the sound of the item finishing, instead of having to watch a bar cross a screen. Personally I would say that is an issue of usability.

Given that, if I am at my computer Requeil reading a book and pressing a key when I get the crafting sound, does that mean I am AFK? Maybe because I was not attentive enough to reply to a pm within the necessary 10 seconds.

When I was spell crafting, I read 2 books getting to 1025 (Plus fried a Radeon 9700 pro). But I see now I was obviously afk.

How can you prove that the difference between someone reading a book and listening for a sound and someone using a macro. Maybe the person has put a varaible time delay into the macro'ing program, between button presses ? Are your looking for someone requesting resources from there inventory which are not there?

Jui - Maybe GOA have done you a favour. At least you have no qualms about restarting on WOW and play with the knowledge of no going back. I know my partner would see a Ban on my accounts as a bonus for her, she wouldn't get so mad about seeing the back of my head for 4 hours a night "Mmmmm maybe if I wasn't so god damm ugly - comes the comment"

 

[Juj]

Juj you tard, you cheated, got caught and GOA chose an accounttermination as a proper punishment. Whats the problem? You wanna cheat and not get punished if caught? Get real. Whats next, ppl get caught with radar and come crying about a ban??? wtf.. i was using radar but wasnt afk..! can i get a suspension instead pleeeease? whaaaaa... QQ...

Not the same thing you know it as well as I do....

 

[Apathy]

On a related topic, what would be goa's view on the use of Powerstrip?

Basically, I've got a fairly knackered old monitor on which I'm unable to increase the brightness to a reasonable level. This means that I can barely see anything at night time in game. To get around this, someone recomended that I use a program called Powerstrip in order to increase brightness.

Now I'm just wondering whether this would be considered illegal use of 3rd party software, in which case I'll have to resort to only playing during daytime hours.

Indeed. I used PowerStrip on one of my computers ages ago. It was the only way I could play since the monitor was constantly dark in DAOC. Hurrah for no in-game gamma control!

As for macrocrafting, I expect a high percentage of hingers use a macro of some sort. They are probably just slightly smart enough to make the macro record human movements over time and then repeat them.

If I were to do it today, I would record seven macros of myself making a various number of hinges each time. Then I would schedule the macros to run in a random order. CONSIDER YOURSELF TRICKED, GOA! Mwahaha. Ha.

But really...it's a shame you are all mostly poor little kiddies or unemployed types because I imagine that EULA/CoC/etc type law cases would be superfun to litigate. The only reason GOA get away with things like this is because none of you can afford to do anything about it.

a.
*

 

[IainC]

On a related topic, what would be goa's view on the use of Powerstrip?

Basically, I've got a fairly knackered old monitor on which I'm unable to increase the brightness to a reasonable level. This means that I can barely see anything at night time in game. To get around this, someone recomended that I use a program called Powerstrip in order to increase brightness.

Now I'm just wondering whether this would be considered illegal use of 3rd party software, in which case I'll have to resort to only playing during daytime hours.

We're splitting hairs now. There are many 3rd party programs running on the average computer that do not in anyway affect gameplay. Powerstrip as I understand it modifies the gamma settings of your monitor and doesn't interfere with DAoC gameplay.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Why don't you GMs actually deal with real issues in the game, like Radar. Maybe because its a lot harder.

People using macros to craft with is a real issue in my book.

Might not ruin your RvR in an immediate and obvious way like the radar-ho's do but it's still cheating and as dull as crafting might be if someone puts on a program and leaves it overnight and bing are LGM compared to someone working at it for weeks/months it kinda cheapens the whole thing.

 

[Juj]

Requiel,
Jui - Maybe GOA have done you a favour. At least you have no qualms about restarting on WOW and play with the knowledge of no going back. I know my partner would see a Ban on my accounts as a bonus for her, she wouldn't get so mad about seeing the back of my head for 4 hours a night "Mmmmm maybe if I wasn't so god damm ugly - comes the comment"

Hehe my partner is overjoyed!

I'm kinda enjoying the ban in that i am spending game time with my son.
I just dont like the way GOA have handled this. I always fight for equality, and giving a 3 day ban for someone stealing a relic to getting an account terminated for using a macro to craft while sitting at the computer is definatly not right.

 

[Aussie]

I fail to see what the problem is with macro crafting. The only thing you gain is more free time for yourself.

 

[Jaapi]

hmmmm I was still not afk.
I have been banned for being afk while using a macro that you convinently changed to the 3rd party thing after i pointed out to you i was not afk..

What's the difference? If you're AFK you have to use the same 3rd party program anyway, so in either case you're banned for using a 3rd party program.

On the other hand a straight out ban seems really harsh compared to 7 days suspension from Mythic for radar users.

 

[SkarIronfist]

Filmgoblin,

You have raised some fair points. But I would point out the money that is required to generate LGM, isn't that a time sink enough.

I would also ask the question?

When a buffbot or a 2nd character is running on another computer either as a buffbot or tagged onto a zerg while going on "another" 4 - 8 hour ML raid, isn't that wrong, since its providing someone with an advantage while being unattended ?

I think its all comes down to your view point on macro'ing. To reduce the impact of a boring task, I don't have a problem with. Especially when its a widely appreciated time sink, you still have to come up with the money. I personally can't remember the last time I put in some serious time into RVR due to TOA commitments, oh wait yes I can 21st February 2004.

I can appreciate the GOA stand point on the complete ban on macroing programs. But I think that its very harsh that someone gets a perma ban for the crime of macro crafting, while in the US they get a 7 day ban for "Radar" abuse, within the very holy grail of RVR.