Is It Leagal To use a crafting macro as long as you are presant at the computer?

[Teh FnoRd]

Juj is a real life friend of mine,and he is NOT back in game

Not talking about the same dude I reckon.

Hi Fiver! Haven't seen ya on inna while :| I miss fiddling with dem kobbies.

 

[Anastasia]

does that mean that radar users will get insta banned as well (Mythic just gives them a few days suspension to start with) and will afk XP'ers (see Albion thread) also get banned? or will they get away with a slap on the wrist and no cookies?

Do you seriously think Requiel / GOA wants to ban ALL the cheats (and thats cheats by their definition - afk buff bots, afk crafters / xpers all the way up to radar users and source-code thieves)?

I really, really doubt it. This thread is doing a fantastic to help GOA not ban cheats. The word of mouth from all the self-appointed guardians of whats true, pure and holy in DAoC is far more effective in spreading the word that GOA are tough on cheats than actually banning people could ever be. Which also has the added bonus (for GOA) of not losing subs revenue.

GOA have a huge dilemma - they don't want cheats, but they also don't want to ban anyone. Its total hypocrisy for Requiel or anyone else from GOA to say that they wont tolerate cheating at all. They'll tolerate as much cheating as is financially acceptable. I'm not saying that cheating is a massively widespread problem, but if it was a significant proportion of the subscribers (say 7 or 8%), there's no way GOA are going to ban them all. Not when a single thread like this gets 4000+ views and 12+ pages of feedback.

You're not employed by GOA, are you Juj?

 

[Nyssa]

Directed to many people posting here at this moment, including me

If your and my company treated us the same way that goa did, we should all get fired!

 

[NeonBlue]

Juj is a real life friend of mine,and he is NOT back in game

read the post again PROPERLY pls...and ull see who i was replying to and why !

 

[Fiver]

read the post again PROPERLY pls...and ull see who i was replying to and why !

cba to read it all again sorry if im wrong

 

[Fiver]

Hi Fiver! Haven't seen ya on inna while :| I miss fiddling with dem kobbies.

Not in your alliance anymore.And i joined Aesir's Blade

 

[NeonBlue]

cba to read it all again sorry if im wrong

hehe nps...i was replying to Hansa about that speedhacker who got banned...Jujara or something?...but is now back in game...or his account is

 

[Draylor]

GOA have a huge dilemma - they don't want cheats, but they also don't want to ban anyone

Totally wrong.

If GOA dont ban people for cheating they lose far more accounts as people get sick of the cheats and quit.

See Mythics post on camelotherald yesterday - where they say basically exactly the same thing.

 

[IainC]

Totally wrong.

If GOA dont ban people for cheating they lose far more accounts as people get sick of the cheats and quit.

See Mythics post on camelotherald yesterday - where they say basically exactly the same thing.

What he said.
The vast majority of our players do not cheat, would not dream of cheating and most don't like to see other people cheating. We can either pander to the small minority of people who do cheat and alienate our honest players or we can make a better game environment for those that just want to play the game fairly.
Other games have made the mistake of tolerating cheats or not punishing those who break the rules. Most people don't have fond memories of those games. It's not something we want people to associate this game with.

 

[Anastasia]

Totally wrong.

If GOA dont ban people for cheating they lose far more accounts as people get sick of the cheats and quit.

See Mythics post on camelotherald yesterday - where they say basically exactly the same thing.

Easy thing to say, difficult thing to prove. Until we see lists or numbers of those people banned, we'll never know. The only real fact here is the total number of people with a current active sub. GOA will always want that number as high as possible (natch). If banning x cheaters means that y people renew that otherwise wouldn't , then x must be lower than y to make commercial sense (gross oversimplification, I know, but the basic principle remains).

Or do you really believe they'd ban an unlimited (potentially) number of accounts?

 

[Morphius]

I dont see why your all putting subs into this argument,

People get banned so they lose £8 a month , if any of u dont use quick login u see over 20,000 people play each day its not gonna make the slightest difference.

If people like the game that much and get banned then they will buy a new account and wont cheat it on it again.

As for "INSTA BAN" some say good some say bad , you say no use of 3rd party programs there is no rule against some machine which physically presses the button is there? it aint a program. There is nowhere in the EULA/CoC which says about keyboard pressing machines which aint a software thingeh. GoA dont have cameras by all PC'S which play daoc and if they banned someone for doing this ( i know their isnt but if there was ) and the non-ban thing GoA would be in shits wouldnt they? and then they would have to un-ban , bt they have the no un-banning rule. And as for instant banning on all cheating , I think nearly every player in the game has used a hole at one stage so you gonna ban all of em? cos thats cheating ur goign out of the designated areas specified and created by goa.

Imo juj should stay banned as he is in the wrong in this case , but if he hadnt admitted to using a 3rd party program hwo do GoA know he doesnt have this liddul machine pressing buttons etc....

Think about that meights

 

[Draylor]

Or do you really believe they'd ban an unlimited (potentially) number of accounts?

No, but I can hope they will.

Roll on 1.70 when (hopefully) we'll see more bans relating to radar cheats etc. Just now the actual use of these tools is probably fairly low: but the amount of whine they generate is out of control. And all the whines achieve is encouraging more people to use them uke:

 

[Meduza]

Which is also illegal and goes to show how much character you have, I suppose.

I dont see ur point.

Lets say Juj had payed for 6 months.
Lets say GOA knew of him cheating.
Lets say present payments shows Juj pays 6 months ahead each time.

Then GOA wanna make an example. They wait till Juj have payed for next 6 months, and then ban him the week after. To make a statement!

Juj then wants at least 5 months payment back, but then u say "which is illegal". Well, tada... Not from where I'm sitting it is! Much rather the opposite!!!


FYI: Juj is a made up name in this example

 

[NetNifty]

It's illegal because Juj agreed that he will forfiet the time left on his subscription which he had paid for if he goes against the TOS. He has paid for the service already and used one month of it already, and its his fault that he got banned.

 

[Belomar]

I will not tolerate any cheating on my servers.

I love this statement, and I think it bodes very well for when Requiel & Co gets their sticky little fingers on the new radar detection technology in NF.

 

[Meduza]

I love this statement, and I think it bodes very well for when Requiel & Co gets their sticky little fingers on the new radar detection technology in NF.

Dont thinh there is such a thing as a "radar detection technology". What Mythic did was prolly e-mailing the creator of the most common radar and asking him for his radar log files. Afaik everyone using his radar (forgot name, look it up on google if u need it) "reports" back to him and he can at any given day tell u how many used his radar and who. I bet Mythic either payed him a nice sum of cash, or maybe a few free accounts with the chars he wanted, ml's, artis, etc...

Dont rly think Mythic want to risk sweeping through the client PC with analysis tools... Could give them a nice lawsuit on their hands.

Well, I donno, just dont think there is such a tool.

 

[Meduza]

It's illegal because Juj agreed that he will forfiet the time left on his subscription which he had paid for if he goes against the TOS. He has paid for the service already and used one month of it already, and its his fault that he got banned.

Illegal my ass. "Juj"s cash imo!

 

[Pin]

Dont rly think Mythic want to risk sweeping through the client PC with analysis tools... Could give them a nice lawsuit on their hands.

Why would there be a lawsuit on their hands? You click the [Accept] button on the EULA every time you play, and after 1.70 it states that you agree to them searching for applications which interfere with the game.

 

[NeonBlue]

Why would there be a lawsuit on their hands? You click the [Accept] button on the EULA every time you play, and after 1.70 it states that you agree to them searching for applications which interfere with the game.

will be interesting to see how many people will agree to that...and how many darent press " I accept"

 

[Darksword]

Yes cancel perhaps but keep my fees NO.

Perhaps this person was a GOA representative in disguise.

hmm i aint no lawyer and aint read rest of the thread yet, but thats entwapment and im quiet sure that its illegal 2 use any information gathered from that without telling the person exactly who u r and why u need it, though as i said i aint no lawyer <Shrugles>

 

[Shike]

And they are not the same person.

umm, i talked to nikon-smidsy on IRC, and afaik he is the old Jjuura, and hes back ingame afaik as Jjuura now too.. this is what I understood from talking to the guy himself so I dunno.. dont really care either since he got banned for what he did once.. if he do it again, hell get banned again aswell..

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Anything done to catch and execute cheaters is fine in my book. All the morally high-ground defending purist knights who fear their pc's being scanned probably have a good reason not to want it scanned at all.

Really, attacking a GM because he states that he doesn't accept cheating on his servers is silly. Sure, they won't catch everyone using a radar. But they'll catch a bunch, and wouldn't it just suck is it was your ass that got banned?

Willing to take the risk?

Side note; 'banning' doesn't necessarily mean 'deletion of the account', so for all you know, the people unable to login because they got their cheating ass kicked are still paying for an account they can't login with anymore. Now that would be hilarious.

 

[NeonBlue]

umm, i talked to nikon-smidsy on IRC, and afaik he is the old Jjuura, and hes back ingame afaik as Jjuura now too.. this is what I understood from talking to the guy himself so I dunno.. dont really care either since he got banned for what he did once.. if he do it again, hell get banned again aswell..

hmm interesting...

so they only ban for a certain amount of time depending on the crime ?

i was under the impression that if u cheated...and u got banned...that was it.

So question has to be asked...why ban someone...then reinstate the account...at a later date?

Maybe a case of they done their time and paid for the crime...so heres a 2nd chance?

suppose GOA can only answer that 1, but certainly would be interesting to hear the reasoning behind it

 

[Hanni]

We really don't need the 12€ a month that badly.

Great maijt.. You really know how to run a profitable business..

You just keep on thinking like that, and wait till you see a very competent competitor, then you'll be damn sure needing those 12 Euro's a month.

Imo, the perfect GOA quote, no clue how to run a business

 

[NetNifty]

So your saying its better for GOA to take 12€ a month from a cheater and risk them making other ppl leave costing them even more €s?

 

[NetNifty]

Illegal my ass. "Juj"s cash imo!

It's not "Juj"'s cash once he clicks accept and agrees not to cheat and that if he does he loses the time he just paid for.

 

[Morchaoron]

Great maijt.. You really know how to run a profitable business..

You just keep on thinking like that, and wait till you see a very competent competitor, then you'll be damn sure needing those 12 Euro's a month.

Imo, the perfect GOA quote, no clue how to run a business

if theres a 'very competent' competitor who allows cheating im not going there anyway...

QQ perhaps?

 

[judas]

Why would there be a lawsuit on their hands? You click the [Accept] button on the EULA every time you play, and after 1.70 it states that you agree to them searching for applications which interfere with the game.

so if the EULA would say Goa that the right to kill you w/o the risk to get charged for it that would be ok as you pressed [Acept]?

in the EU you cant just go around these rights using a "EULA" or such ateleast not from what i have read it issues like this.

as for Requiel if you still read this thread: i read somewere that Goa atm knows very little of this new anti cheat technology but will ask anyway.
Will Goa be using this new technology next patch and will it search for 3rd party programs running thats not only for radar usage, but also macroing(macro crafting). afaik it wont as it uses somekind of technique sending decoy packets that triggers the radar program and some how shows its running :>

 

[Aadia]

We really don't need the 12€ a month that badly.

I think everyone noticed that when they have some sort of problem that needs goa intervention. Why on earth do you think everybody calls RightNow RightNever?

Could it be due to the fact that you don't indeed need the money you all toggle off the ppl? No matter if they cheated or not. The support and info and resolving things you get from Goa is shite. I guess now we all have the answer.

Goa doesn't NEED the money.

 

[Aadia]

As for what anastacia said earlier in this thread.... cba to find the post back again about banning ppl and competition.

Take this for example: Goa has loads of accountpayers atm as sadly enough there's truly not a single other mmorpg that speaks to anyone.
Now purely hypothetical speaking: WoW comes out... Ofcours alot of ppl that used to be with DAoC go ofcours to WoW (i mean you can't really ignore the fact that alot of ppl are getting more and more unhappy with goa/mythic)
We ignore the fact itself here that we've seen in the past that alot of ppl leave the game for another one and after a few months come back as the other game wasn't really THAT.

So, WoW comes out, alot of ppl leave for that (and just for the sake of it let's say at least 50% cuz everyone i've talked to and seen ingame IS gonna leave for WoW).

Now let's look at the economy statistics then: Goa has a huge market now with ppl having 2 accounts, new players coming in once and a while. The permanently banning of ppl is prolly the same as 2nd accounts and new players.
What happens when WoW (or let's say another game comes out that ppl have been waiting for): Alot of ppl will go to that other game (even new players that got held up with old DAoC players not to activate an account with goa), apart from those new players that early 50% goes to the same game leaving goa.
I'm sure you all see that that new game will have a bigger market then goa will have then.
And this is what anastacia is saying (if i understood it well ) What is goa gonna do to regain the lost marketfield? Unban the ppl they had before? (Though i'm sure they have moved to WoW too) Or Unban the ppl that should have just gotten a tap on their fingers instead of perma ban? (Though i'm very sure they will never return to goa)

And ofcours you can say that mythic will come up with new patches/new expansions - but you can't honestly say that you can keep stretching a game as at some point ideas run out.

Now regarding to the first poster here: Wether he did or didn't do something illegal and wether you are in favor for punishing so badly or not. Comparing to radar users he's been done wrong to get a perma ban.