Is It Leagal To use a crafting macro as long as you are presant at the computer?

[Chilly]

I fail to see what the problem is with macro crafting. The only thing you gain is more free time for yourself.

To be fair, macroing is GOOD for goa...they get more /play and consequently more monthy subs from ppl who do, i sure as hell would never sit at my puter for 8 hours solid pressing a key ever few seconds but telling a macro to do the same thing is trivial.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Personally I don't think buffbots are very fair but they're part of the game and within the game unfortunately, unlike 3rd party macro programs.

 

[old.Sko]

To be fair, macroing is GOOD for goa...they get more /play and consequently more monthy subs from ppl who do, i sure as hell would never sit at my puter for 8 hours solid pressing a key ever few seconds but telling a macro to do the same thing is trivial.

That's the point. They need more month subs and less /play time as it eats their bandwith.
Imagine all server pop like excalibur macro crafting 24/7.
Ofc they are harsh on macro cheaters.

PS. Flimgoblin ninja modded me in other exploit thread =D

 

[Elewyth(TLSOA)]

hmmmm I was still not afk.
I have been banned for being afk while using a macro that you convinently changed to the 3rd party thing after i pointed out to you i was not afk..

Frankly I think you have crossed the line on this one as do the majority of the people here..
I am still unsure of my leagal rights in this matter and they are being looked into.
If a case is possible it will be put forward and the people here will be informed of it's progress.

You lit the fire now you can burn in it...

omg your a moron go away little boy...
1. They havnt crossed the line.. you cheated end of story..u got banned... live with it.
2. pfft you have NO legal rights.. this isnt your property..its remains the property of GOA/Mythic ergo... they can do whatever the hell the want to you seeing as they make the rules.

3. the only case you have is QQ N00b

 

[Juj]

omg your a moron go away little boy...
1. They havnt crossed the line.. you cheated end of story..u got banned... live with it.
2. pfft you have NO legal rights.. this isnt your property..its remains the property of GOA/Mythic ergo... they can do whatever the hell the want to you seeing as they make the rules.

3. the only case you have is QQ N00b

Oh i see we have one of those grown up insulting posts

 

[Teh FnoRd]

Cheesus. Can some people be more ignorant?

Juj I do agree with you on one point: It should be the same punishment on Radarusers as mocroers. instaban imo.
And no you don't have any leagal rights, read the EULA again and you'll see that Mythic(/GoA) have covered all they're bases and that you can't do anything about it.
Fair? maybe not, but you cheated and now you have to pay for it. tough tuck.

 

[Nxs]

Requiel, is there anyway GoA would ever have a tiered system, in that the punishment fits the crime, rather than a full no cheating ban,

Yes, ok this guy cheated, there must have been some time where he installed or configured some kind of 3rd party tool or hardware to assist with crafting, then some more time to kick it off and yes I agree this is naughty but its not as bad as someone exploiting a LoS bug or texture bug in RvR to gain an advantage, or even the dreaded Radar.

Juj says this was a one off, and hopefully thats the truth, surely a swift slapped wrist and a temp ban would have been more tolerant and retained a customer.

Mythic issue tempory bans and a warning before a perm ban on similar issues, I just guess GoA run a tighter ship.... maybe thats a good thing, but If I got a driving ban for jumping a red light, rather than a slap and a fine... id be a tad unhappy.

Just my two cents.

 

[NetNifty]

A good thing about removing ppl permenantly when they use 3rd party programs is that:

- It makes sure they won't cheat again, cos they can't if they can't log in
- It serves as a very good deterrent to ppl who might want to install one.

 

[ShakeyBaby]

Well if you want a "workaround" to deal with the whole "Crafting is dull and time consuming" . Go to your local toy shop, and buy a set ot Technics Lego with a robot hand.
Build it
Connect to spare pc.
Place hand over mouse button ( after positiong cursor on screen q/bar)
Set a time random program to active the index finger ( best finger when dealing with Mythic/Goa IMO )
Ding Insta LGM !!
Undectable unless they are Big Brother styling each and everyone of our bad asses !Free the Crafting Thousands !!!

 

[Mojo]

I think a slap on the wrist would have been better personally, live and let live, seccond chances etc

I would not like to see ppl making LGM using macros as it takes away form the hard manual work i and other crafters have done, but trinketing is another story, it truely does blow monkeys bollocks why cant we trinkets 10 at a time or sommit?

 

[Urme the Legend]

You used a third party program, you must have known it was illegal. You got caught, you got the punishment.

If you can't be bothered to craft the normal way without cheating, don't craft at all. Let someone else do it and buy weapons/armor etc from them.

Edit: Someone said that you get more freetime if you use a macro.. well don't play the game at all and you get a hell of alot more free time. Play the game it was intended to be played or don't play at all.

 

[Urme the Legend]

I think a slap on the wrist would have been better personally, live and let live, seccond chances etc

I would not like to see ppl making LGM using macros as it takes away form the hard manual work i and other crafters have done, but trinketing is another story, it truely does blow monkeys bollocks why cant we trinkets 10 at a time or sommit?

You can do 20 metal/wood etc in the same trinket now... check under metalworking/woodworking.

 

[IainC]

Requiel, is there anyway GoA would ever have a tiered system, in that the punishment fits the crime, rather than a full no cheating ban,

Yes, ok this guy cheated, there must have been some time where he installed or configured some kind of 3rd party tool or hardware to assist with crafting, then some more time to kick it off and yes I agree this is naughty but its not as bad as someone exploiting a LoS bug or texture bug in RvR to gain an advantage, or even the dreaded Radar.

Juj says this was a one off, and hopefully thats the truth, surely a swift slapped wrist and a temp ban would have been more tolerant and retained a customer.

Mythic issue tempory bans and a warning before a perm ban on similar issues, I just guess GoA run a tighter ship.... maybe thats a good thing, but If I got a driving ban for jumping a red light, rather than a slap and a fine... id be a tad unhappy.

Just my two cents.

We do have different levels of punishment and we do look at each case individually.
Our stance on 3rd party programs is very tough, in a different thread I stated that our policy was to terminate accounts for using 3rd party programs. I was accused of lying then....
The reason the stance is particularly tough is because there's an element of premeditation involved. You choose to download a program to cheat with, you choose to configure it to allow you to cheat and then you run it. Other things are generally more situational - you may discover a spot where mobs can't hit you back and decide to exploit it, you may discover a geometry hole to hide you buffbot in or whatever. These are moments of weakness and while we punish people for them, we generally find that people slapped once will toe the line in future when they realise that there are consequences. With people who have gone to the effort of setting out to cheat in advance then they are more likely to be 'hard core' cheaters and less put off by a short suspension. Unless there are very extenuating circumstances we will always terminate accounts that are found to be using a 3rd party program.

 

[Lorra]

Yes cancel perhaps but keep my fees NO.

downloaded one of those 30 day free trial packages (Keyboard Express 3) and made a macro that repeated itself every few seconds.

erm... sorry if im wrong but isn't that a third party program, and isnt marcoing going aginest the spirt of the game as someone not using marcos would have had to work for there skill where as you would not have, face it theres nothing u can do so go QQ some more.

 

[Mojo]

You can do 20 metal/wood etc in the same trinket now... check under metalworking/woodworking.

fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck thanks since when? if you say any patch other than 1.69 im gonna slam my head between the firedoors

 

[Juj]

erm... sorry if im wrong but isn't that a third party program, and isnt marcoing going aginest the spirt of the game as someone not using marcos would have had to work for there skill where as you would not have, face it theres nothing u can do so go QQ some more.

The big difference here is that I like any other crafter was preasant and active during the whole crafting process.
Using the macro didnt acctually speed things up because i was using a static value that had to accomodate for new items, which meant that the button was beeing pressed a little while after each "ding".
All the macro did was make the game more comfortable for me, and stop me from pressing the button twice in a row and cancel the item i was crafting (Gawd i used to hate that!)

But as I said the big difference is the afkness. A macro under non afk circumstances is like any other 3rd party program that improves the game experience without effecting or harming other gamers.

 

[Thegreatest]

Live with it, it's against the game spirit. If you did use a 3rd party program for example getting insta lvl 50, would it ruin the game for other people? Nope..But would you also whine like now when your account got banned..Probably yes..You're gaining something that other fair players will gain with a lot of more effort than you did and that's forbidden. Live with it, bay bay, have fun with any other game you're playing....

 

[SkarIronfist]

You can create trinkets, which use 20 bars instead of 2 bars for a hinge.

 

[Juj]

Live with it, it's against the game spirit. If you did use a 3rd party program for example getting insta lvl 50, would it ruin the game for other people? Nope..But would you also whine like now when your account got banned..Probably yes..You're gaining something that other fair players will gain with a lot of more effort than you did and that's forbidden. Live with it, bay bay, have fun with any other game you're playing....

Lets keep things realistic and in proportion here shal we?

 

[[AB]Shirtan]

List of 3rd party programs that heavily affect gameplay:
Windows
Mouse/Keyboard/Monitor/Network -drivers
Internet Browser

These are of course all legal as is Powerstrip, but does that mean that
I will now have to carefully read up on my keyboard drivers if I buy a new keyboard
as I don't suspect it to be long before we start to get more intelligent keyboards,
remember when joystick got autofire?
What if a cat just happened to fall asleep on a craft button?

The macroprogram in use here acted in the way I depicted above, the stream of data
was never tampered with, only was the keyboard driver written to, imo thats an
improvement of the keyboard driver, and I do believe you can schedule tasks in Windows
too.


/ Shirtan

PS. Am I in breach because i use a browser to look at the internet for what artifacts
I should go for?
PPS. Yeah I know im going to extremes.

 

[acei]

The big difference here is that I like any other crafter was preasant and active during the whole crafting process.
Using the macro didnt acctually speed things up because i was using a static value that had to accomodate for new items, which meant that the button was beeing pressed a little while after each "ding".
All the macro did was make the game more comfortable for me, and stop me from pressing the button twice in a row and cancel the item i was crafting (Gawd i used to hate that!)

But as I said the big difference is the afkness. A macro under non afk circumstances is like any other 3rd party program that improves the game experience without effecting or harming other gamers.

You using a macro gave you a advantage over other crafters and you've confirmed it made your life easier this is why you were banned for using a third party program. Whether you're afk or not is irrelevant a macro program outside of the game's macro mechanic's is illegal to use for DAOC. Several times the GOA staff have warned not to use macro program's as they're classed as third party applications. Stop whining, you took the risk and got banned simple as that.

 

[Nxs]

We do have different levels of punishment and we do look at each case individually.
Our stance on 3rd party programs is very tough, in a different thread I stated that our policy was to terminate accounts for using 3rd party programs. I was accused of lying then....
The reason the stance is particularly tough is because there's an element of premeditation involved. You choose to download a program to cheat with, you choose to configure it to allow you to cheat and then you run it. Other things are generally more situational - you may discover a spot where mobs can't hit you back and decide to exploit it, you may discover a geometry hole to hide you buffbot in or whatever. These are moments of weakness and while we punish people for them, we generally find that people slapped once will toe the line in future when they realise that there are consequences. With people who have gone to the effort of setting out to cheat in advance then they are more likely to be 'hard core' cheaters and less put off by a short suspension. Unless there are very extenuating circumstances we will always terminate accounts that are found to be using a 3rd party program.

I still feel there are different degrees of abuse with 3rd party programs that should warrent different punishments, a crafting macro is not as bad as a radar user, however its GoA's server and we all click that ACCEPT button so must face the consequences.

Thanks for the clarification here.

 

[Thegreatest]

Lets keep things realistic and in proportion here shal we?

Why? You said that you wasn't afk while using a 3rd party program which doesnt make that 3rd party program acceptable!! I mean it's like the example I gave, you gain insta lvl 50 with a 3rd party program for example but you say that you wasn't afk while using it!! And you also said that you wasn't ruining the game for other players with macro crafting, well in fact you do as you GAIN something with a lot less effort than they need to spend on...What's not realistic or what part of my reply didnt you understand?

 

[Juj]

You using a macro gave you a advantage over other crafters and you've confirmed it made your life easier this is why you were banned for using a third party program. Whether you're afk or not is irrelevant a macro program outside of the game's macro mechanic's is illegal to use for DAOC. Several times the GOA staff have warned not to use macro program's as they're classed as third party applications. Stop whining, you took the risk and got banned simple as that.

Please feel free to define what advantages i had over other crafters?

 

[SkarIronfist]

TheGreatest,

I would have to question the "spirit" of the game in certain areas. Where things are added because the are required of a game of this type i.e. crafting. So for instance DAOC has "Crafting" tick in the box of feature list.

I would be interested in seeing GOA's list of number banned on a monthly basis. Whether its an active thing, or just a case where somebody is singled out for an example.

I would raise another question?

Are the bannings being graded ... along the lines of

A. Banned for x - Will allow to re open if WOW affects our subscription base to much and we need to generate more revenue.
B. Banned for y - Not even if WOW affects our player base.

Question?

Not sure if anyone can answer this? Are there many MMORPGs in German/French. Also is WoW coming out in German or French ?

 

[Path]

When im crafting i just stand in the same place, read a book and press the same key everytime an item is made, therefore i would have the same serverlogs as that... this mean im gonna have to run around aegir every 10 minutes to prove im not afk and not get banned?

Even if GOA only used logs this wouldn't be a problem - humans aren't machines, and thus we can't synch ourselves like them (even if you tried your best to time keystrokes perfectly, a machine would always do better - unless you have a poor connection and are able to predict the delay better than your machine).

Please feel free to define what advantages i had over other crafters?

You cannot prove that someone is AFK, or "merely" using a macro program while being at the keyboard. The reverse is also true, in that you cannot prove that you were at the keyboard if you didn't produce any input, short of what the macro program did for you. As such, all usage of macro programs is regarded as being AFK, since the effect produced is the same. Other crafters need to manually press their buttons to achieve this effect; this should be obvious enough?

 

[Juj]

Why? You said that you wasn't afk while using a 3rd party program which doesnt make that 3rd party program acceptable!! I mean it's like the example I gave, you gain insta lvl 50 with a 3rd party program for example but you say that you wasn't afk while using it!! And you also said that you wasn't ruining the game for other players with macro crafting, well in fact you do as you GAIN something with a lot less effort than they need to spend on...What's not realistic or what part of my reply didnt you understand?

If my macro was giving me insta LGM then the comparison would be fine. However...

 

[SkarIronfist]

Path,

You would be surprised about how easily you can get into a pattern of listening to the "ding" and basicalling "twitching" and pushing the number 2.

Especially if you get into the "Zone", the crafting "Zone"

 

[Path]

Path,

You would be surprised about how easily you can get into a pattern of listening to the "ding" and basicalling "twitching" and pushing the number 2.

Especially if you get into the "Zone", the crafting "Zone"

Theretically, this is possible However, that you'd be able to synch it well enough to beat a computer isn't probable - unless the computer is suffering from some sort of variation in the connection causing occassional lag; even then you'd be hard pressed

 

[IainC]

TheGreatest,

I would have to question the "spirit" of the game in certain areas. Where things are added because the are required of a game of this type i.e. crafting. So for instance DAOC has "Crafting" tick in the box of feature list.

I would be interested in seeing GOA's list of number banned on a monthly basis. Whether its an active thing, or just a case where somebody is singled out for an example.

I would raise another question?

Are the bannings being graded ... along the lines of

A. Banned for x - Will allow to re open if WOW affects our subscription base to much and we need to generate more revenue.
B. Banned for y - Not even if WOW affects our player base.

Question?

Not sure if anyone can answer this? Are there many MMORPGs in German/French. Also is WoW coming out in German or French ?

Banned is banned. If we terminate your account you won't reopen it again. Speaking personally I'd be delighted if all the cheats went to play another game. On a more professional level, it isn't worth alienating the vast majority of honest players by tolerating the very small minority of cheats. We really don't need the 12€ a month that badly. We also don't single people out to make an example. If we wanted to do that we'd post on the news 'PlayerBob caught cheating and banned!' or 'X number of cheats caught today! Go us!'. People get caught cheating and punished on a regular basis - it's a rare day when I don't have to take action against at least one person, it's just that the vast majority of people who are caught don't make whinethreads about it on a public forum.