Is It Leagal To use a crafting macro as long as you are presant at the computer?

[Meduza]

a bit offtopic iknow, but do you m8s think its legal to use a crafting macro as long as you are present at the computer?

I do not. Mythic doesnt either (if u have read the whole thread). Goa do however, and since Goa is running the euro servers, what they say seems to be Teh Law!!!!1111 (according to most ignorants in this thread).

 

[vintervargen]

what if my m8rz press my buttons while im on the WC, is that illegal?

 

[Nightchill]

"Most ignorants" (sic) who would, in fact, be right, eh Meduza?

 

[Oidche]

People who don't share your opinion are not necessary retards, though you might be an exception.

<nods in agreement>

 

[Indio]

IMO

What a shambles! This has obviously opened a huge pandora's box and has set a major precedence for DAOC game laws and in fairness to Juj I would expect many more permabans to be issued from now on.

Juj was presumably running a script which simulated a keypress on a hotbar, nothing more sinister. No interference with game code or datastream. Scripting tools are an integral part of windows. Is using a script to logon to DAOC a breach of the rules?

We all know there are 3rd party programmes available for download which can simulate the full crafting cycle, i.e. craft, salvage, walk to a merchant and buy materials, return to crafting table etc. These 'robots' DO intercept streaming data and process it into commands, not simple keypresses. How many current LGM's are guilty of using such tools?

I also hope GOA remember that handing out permabans could impact other revenue streams - Wanadoo own Mythic, they also own Freeserve, an ISP used by lots of DAOC players in the UK.

 

[Meduza]

"Most ignorants" (sic) who would, in fact, be right, eh Meduza?

me ofc!

-sigh-

 

[Killswitch]

Should know better than to get involved in threads like this...but I just HAVE to ask a question.

1) Holding down key with finger and watching TV = fine
2) Jamming down key with coin and watching TV = bannable

Thinking is that I could just knock up a little thing that you could sit on that held the button down. A single-key Ass-Keyboard(TM) if you like. I know this is a bit daft, but I DO have a point...

I would be pressing the key, so there would be no third-party software or any lack of human intervention. However, I would NOT be in a position to respond if a GOA representative decided to move me or contact me in some way. If I was asleep for example, or watching TV in the next room.

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The user must be positioned at his or her screen whenever his or her character performs an action that normally requires human intervention (activating a macro, issuing a command, pressing a button, etc.).
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This is from the EULA (or maybe the CoC I'm not sure) and seems to be a bit strong. Does this mean I can't take my wireless keyboard into the next room and hit a craft key when I hear the 'ding'? How long after being moved/contacted/whatever by a GOA GM do you have to respond before being labelled a cheater and perma-banned.

I think that AFK XPing/Crafting is BAD and can only damage the game. However, since they are talking about banning accounts and keeping up to 6 months worth of subs AND banning accounts that people might have put 100s of hours of play-time into, I for one would like some thought-out, hard, fast rules that don't leave room for any ambiguity.

I don't think the current EULA/CoC provides this (hence this absurdly long thread...)

Discuss...

 

[cougar]

such problems we have here in europe

maybe let the tribunal in Haag sort this?

 

[Laston]

tbh he did say they have other ways to see if your macroing than just sending "do you use h4xX???" so i wouldnt worry to much about it tbh just make a /afk message for what you doing :touch:

 

[Nalistah]

The EULA is not the law u know.. if they put in something like this in the EULA,
"If we caught u cheating, we will go to your house and burn it down" doesnt mean its legal.. maybe a bad exampel, but u get my point. Just because it is in the EULA doesnt necessarily mean it's 100% correct from their side.

If someone pays for 6months and they just terminate the account after 2 days for any reason, i think u have the right to get back your money. They maybe have the right to terminate your account, afterall, its their game, they can decide who they wants as a costumer or not. But keeping the money is wrong.

I think you should take this further.

Good luck!

 

[Driwen]

The EULA is not the law u know.. if they put in something like this in the EULA,
"If we caught u cheating, we will go to your house and burn it down" doesnt mean its legal.. maybe a bad exampel, but u get my point. Just because it is in the EULA doesnt necessarily mean it's 100% correct from their side.

and just because an EULA doesnt have to be binding, doesnt mean it isnt in this case .

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

You signed a carte blanche agreement with em - effectively - your chances of victory in a court with something like this are negligable at best - especially under french law (mate of mine is a lawyer).
Best bet is to get some public pressure behind you if you want to get unbanned but tbh think u'll find the community is split on this kinda thing Simple answer - dont use any third party programs - pain in the ass as this may be for some people.

Oh and i hope mythic have found a way with NF to catch all the 3rd party program users [although it sounds like it was a manual decection this time] sick and tired of being radar'ed on my non-stealth chars - so much so i've retired em from rvr until NF.

 

[Meduza]

I agree on all but this:

They maybe have the right to terminate your account, afterall, its their game, they can decide who they wants as a costumer or not.

No, no member of the european community can say the only wanna sell their products to selected customers. Thats illegal (called discrimination, even tho its not a racial thing). Its like having a sign on the door saying "Only ppl named Johnson, or Hanson, and with big ears, r allowed to shop in here" (well, thats put to the extreme, but just to prove my point ).

so in fact, they cant rly terminate ur account unless u commit an illegal act (according to the law, NOT the CoC/EULA) ie. altering the codes of DAoC (and thereby breaking interlectual property rights).

 

[NetNifty]

So your saying its illegal to ban someone from an online game?

 

[NeonBlue]

crap

u dont half talk some shit !!

 

[Spamb0t]

The intervals on a macro tool would be at the spot each millisecond making it humanly impossible to "replicate" it

a decent macro crafting program would have some random few millisecond variance between each new item crafted to not get caught..
ive been told... ;-D

 

[Meduza]

So your saying its illegal to ban someone from an online game?

yes, it is. but since none of us is gonna drag goa to court they can practically do whatever they want

Edit: this only goes for members of they european community tho (EU). they can prolly kick everyone they want in the US, since they use a fooked up law system who benefits the rich d00ds (imo )

 

[Driwen]

No, no member of the european community can say the only wanna sell their products to selected customers. Thats illegal (called discrimination, even tho its not a racial thing). Its like having a sign on the door saying "Only ppl named Johnson, or Hanson, and with big ears, r allowed to shop in here" (well, thats put to the extreme, but just to prove my point ).

so in fact, they cant rly terminate ur account unless u commit an illegal act (according to the law, NOT the CoC/EULA) ie. altering the codes of DAoC (and thereby breaking interlectual property rights).

I am not sure, but I think shops can kick people out if they dont like them. This shouldnt be based on discrimination, but if it something like they sexually harrass my employees (which afaik is only illegal if done by someone who has power over your job) or if they are just plain rude to you than you can kick them out. Atleast I would think it is allowed to refuss peoples business, if it is based on something that isnt discremination and as being a cheater has nothing to do with discreminating against any group (well except cheaters, but I doubt that counts) than it is ok.
Also note that goa does sell you the game later on they refuse to allow you being their customer due to your behaviour in their game.

 

[Melachi]

What if I had a pc the size of my house (like those old ones) and I was in my bed beside it, and so am present, (infact everyone on my street is present ) and my pillow is a sofened Keyboard with all the keys removed except the button to craft a hinge, and everytime I roll over in bed I make a hinge?

[Edit] Though I think Meduza might be on to something to an extent, that they cant ban your account unless you do something ilegal. And I dont care what any Eula/CoC says, they imo and probably by law have to return the payment for the unused months, You payed for a service you cannot recieve therefore it should be refunded!

 

[dapprman]

I am not sure, but I think shops can kick people out if they dont like them. This shouldnt be based on discrimination, but if it something like they sexually harrass my employees (which afaik is only illegal if done by someone who has power over your job) or if they are just plain rude to you than you can kick them out. Atleast I would think it is allowed to refuss peoples business, if it is based on something that isnt discremination and as being a cheater has nothing to do with discreminating against any group (well except cheaters, but I doubt that counts) than it is ok.
Also note that goa does sell you the game later on they refuse to allow you being their customer due to your behaviour in their game.

Actually, within the EU (And I beleive it is the same in the US), if a shop has an item for sale at a published price, not only must they sell it to anyone who wants it, but it must also be for that price, even if it has been mislabled. The latter can be reversed if they can show it was not a member of staff who placed the price on the article, the former can not.

The only ways a shop can kick you out (and thus refuse to sell an item to you), are if you appear to be about to steel something, damage goods, cause a loss to the shop (i.e. removing and swapping prices), do some thing illegal (i.e. start a fight), the shop has to close (this can be earlier that published, but not later) and Health and Safety (i.e. shop is too crowded). I'm not sure there are any other reasons.

 

[Laston]

errr whats the big deal? GOA doesnt tolerate cheaters and ban em... once a cheater allways a cheater imo.


And havent we gone slightly offtopic? if they find out you cheat they ban you, simple as that. and how could you craft by jamming the key down? its not possible as far as i know.

If its YOU who press the button it is allowed, thats how i read it anyway


afk xping is allowed aslong your pets dont attack other peoples pulls...

 

[Meduza]

Doesn't matter if we are off topic. We are setting presedence(sp?) here!

Other gaming companies will read this thread and know that we know that they know that what they are doing is wrong! (Lots of "know" there, ehh? )

Or maybe I'm dillusional...

 

[Sarnat]

Other gaming companies will read this thread and know that we know that they know that what they are doing is wrong! (Lots of "know" there, ehh? )

GOA has the full rights to forbid someone from playing the game if they wish to do so. One pretty damn good reason is cheating.

 

[Meduza]

GOA has the full rights to forbid someone from playing the game if they wish to do so. One pretty damn good reason is cheating.

no they cant... legally

but they do it anyway...

 

[Vesania]

no they cant... legally

but they do it anyway...

/yawn. Really, get a grip now. If that were the case, no online game would be in business. Whatever conspiracy theory you may persist with, in your delightfully entertaining ignorance, the real world just doesn't work that way. Neither Mythic nor GoA are law-breaking big boys who ignore the rules because they just fancy intimidating and bullying the poor wee innocent gamers or because they are somehow indifferent.

Are you a lawyer? No. Are you in fact well educated in the law? I highly doubt that. Are you actually just talking a load of crap in an attempt to seem knowledgeable? Seems that way from here.

But don't be downhearted; with all that bullshit so easily to hand, you can always grow up to be a mushroom farmer.

 

[Ctuchik]

no they cant... legally

but they do it anyway...

then u can look up that law and quote it (with a working link to said law) wich says they cant ban players mister smart ass!

 

[IainC]

Shops can refuse to serve somebody if they like. They're private property and they have every right to refuse to allow entrance or to serve anyone the owner doesn't like.
However we aren't a shop. We sell a service and not a product. You choose the service and it comes with terms and conditions. It's essentially a contract. You agree to those conditions in order to be able to access that service. If you don't agree to the conditions then you can't access the service and the client quits. That's why the Ts&Cs pop up when you log in and you get the 'Accept/Don't Accept' choice. It's also why every time a new account logs in from a client or the Ts&Cs change, you have to go through and scroll to the end of them again. We legally have to make you do that to ensure that you have the opportunity to decline the service if you don't like the conditions.

 

[Ctuchik]

Shops can refuse to serve somebody if they like. They're private property and they have every right to refuse to allow entrance or to serve anyone the owner doesn't like.
However we aren't a shop. We sell a service and not a product. You choose the service and it comes with terms and conditions. It's essentially a contract. You agree to those conditions in order to be able to access that service. If you don't agree to the conditions then you can't access the service and the client quits. That's why the Ts&Cs pop up when you log in and you get the 'Accept/Don't Accept' choice. It's also why every time a new account logs in from a client or the Ts&Cs change, you have to go through and scroll to the end of them again. We legally have to make you do that to ensure that you have the opportunity to decline the service if you don't like the conditions.

isnt it more of a "lease" then a contract? what i mean is that everything that have to do with DAoC europe, is legally Mythic/GOA property. we are just paying u to be able to use it..... or am i totally off here? so even if we pay our subs and lvl our characters, they are still the property of GOA/Mythic.. so if u dont want someone to use ur property u are in full right to deny them to do just that ........ i think....

 

[NeonBlue]

/yawn. Really, get a grip now. If that were the case, no online game would be in business. Whatever conspiracy theory you may persist with, in your delightfully entertaining ignorance, the real world just doesn't work that way. Neither Mythic nor GoA are law-breaking big boys who ignore the rules because they just fancy intimidating and bullying the poor wee innocent gamers or because they are somehow indifferent.

Are you a lawyer? No. Are you in fact well educated in the law? I highly doubt that. Are you actually just talking a load of crap in an attempt to seem knowledgeable? Seems that way from here.

But don't be downhearted; with all that bullshit so easily to hand, you can always grow up to be a mushroom farmer.

LOLOL well said !

 

[Meduza]

/yawn. Really, get a grip now. If that were the case, no online game would be in business. Whatever conspiracy theory you may persist with, in your delightfully entertaining ignorance, the real world just doesn't work that way. Neither Mythic nor GoA are law-breaking big boys who ignore the rules because they just fancy intimidating and bullying the poor wee innocent gamers or because they are somehow indifferent.

Are you a lawyer? No. Are you in fact well educated in the law? I highly doubt that. Are you actually just talking a load of crap in an attempt to seem knowledgeable? Seems that way from here.

But don't be downhearted; with all that bullshit so easily to hand, you can always grow up to be a mushroom farmer.

Nope, not a lawyer... If so I wouldnt drive the reck Im driving. I do, however, hold a candidate degree in what may translate as business law, which do, however, give me some insight in the law system Imo ofc...

Shops can refuse to serve somebody if they like. They're private property and they have every right to refuse to allow entrance or to serve anyone the owner doesn't like.

I bet u haven't discussed this with Goa's legal department. Cuz that is as wrong as it gets. A shopowner did that in my country (Denmark) and was in the danish supreeme(sp?) court ruled against and got a fine. I dont say danish law equals rest of european union, but we have, however, implemented most directives agreed between the European Union.

However we aren't a shop. We sell a service and not a product.

Once again, this cant have been discussed with Goa's legal department. I take it, it is ur opinion, and not that of Goa ? I surely hope so, cuz to correct u, a service and product is treated the same way legally. And if u (=Goa) think u can ban players from left to right, then ur wrong - legally. Maybe the community itself says "right on, damn cheaters!" (and me too for that matter), but its not legal to deny some from playing ur game and not others on that account they have bought.

To those of u not caring to read this whole thread, Im not the one banned And as said many times be4, nomatter what u (=Goa) do, none of us cares that much to sue(sp?) u.