Is It Leagal To use a crafting macro as long as you are presant at the computer?

[Path]

This is imo a borderlinecase, ban or not ban? I havent dared to actually try this setup since I dont want a ban but would be nice to know for sure what rules applies to a setup like that.

It's a clear case of abuse though; hardware hacking If your toons can XP without any input whatsoever, fine - keep in mind though that the accounts will disconnect eventually anyway; bypassing this by jamming down keys is illegal.

 

[Laston]

for christs sake how many pages is this thread again? :eek2: stop the whining and let the thread die ffs!

 

[Driwen]

No. If you had read this thread (and the related one), you will see Requiel saying that strictly speaking, exping AFK with a pet is not illegal per se since the pet is just doing something it would normally do, and does not require human intervention. However, if you are afk-exping and your pet happens to aggro someone else's pulled mob, you are in deep trouble.

Of course, don't take my word for it, look up Requiel's post for yourself to be certain.

Long time ago (dunno year), someone had pets on agressive and went afk. He came back with x amount of exp gained realising his pets had been on agressive and they had been killing the mobs around. Asked goa what they think about it and basically its similar to exping on mobs that cant hit you. Not a first offense ban kind of thing, but if you do it you will get a warning first time and second time a ban (I guess dont know goas punishments to well) or atleast something like that.
Afk exping is bug abusing (or atleast it was considered so some time ago), just like killing mobs that cant hit you.

 

[vintervargen]

better remove /stick so you cant be AFK from DL to emain !!

 

[Gear]

I read up to page 13 and can't go on. I won't say anything about the macroing and if that is 'legal' or not, however paying for a service that the other party does not supply is definitely illegal. In Greece it is ground for legal action and as this game is sold here you can even press charges against selling this game (yes, it can be done)!

To the people that talk about "pressing accept hence you get powned".... Are you completely idiots? Do you have any idea on what a binding contract is? Do you even know the term abusive?! In many ways both agreements over which you press Accept are abusive and can be easily challenged (if you have the money, the time and obviously a lawyer). Point is that it might cost you 1000 euro to take back 30, and this is what most companies take advantage of, which mostly sucks. Try however to check it out in your country, specificaly regarding your consumer rights AS STATED BY LAW, and I bet you'll get your money back.

 

[cougar]

is it legal to never let thread die?

 

[Driwen]

better remove /stick so you cant be AFK from DL to emain !!

uhm you arent actually getting rps, xp or money from doing that though and someone else is getting you there. And just running afk through some RvR zone is ok aswell as again you arent actually profitting from it and if you do happen to kill some RvR'ers than they were to dumb to attack you and actually loose.

thing is gear that when you pay you do get access to the service, but after you broken the contract they take away the access and dont refund the money you had already paid. It isnt (atleast in my view) a clear cut case of you paying something you dont have access to, as at the moment of you paying you had and by your own actions you dont have it anymore (I mean with you the cheater and not gear).

 

[Oidche]

To the people that talk about "pressing accept hence you get powned".... Are you completely idiots? Do you have any idea on what a binding contract is? Do you even know the term abusive?! In many ways both agreements over which you press Accept are abusive and can be easily challenged (if you have the money, the time and obviously a lawyer). Point is that it might cost you 1000 euro to take back 30, and this is what most companies take advantage of, which mostly sucks. Try however to check it out in your country, specificaly regarding your consumer rights AS STATED BY LAW, and I bet you'll get your money back.

Indeed.

Besides, to the people stating that you can read the EULA on the Herald: that is the EULA for the US version, written for US law. Remember, in the US you can get millions from a tobacco company claiming you didn't know smoking is bad. The law system there is really fucked up.

I'm not sure which law applies for me (I bought the game in the Netherlands, but GOA is a french company), but clicking 'accept' is in no way binding for me. If they would terminate my account, they are unbinding a contract, so they need to refund my money. Such is european law.

Regarding Juj: he cheated, got cought, got punished. I do think the punishment is too severe for a first time though, using a macro program while being at the PC does not give you an advantage over others in the same way using radar does. A 7-day suspension would have done the trick, and all would have been happy.

 

[Vesania]

I do think the punishment is too severe for a first time though, using a macro program while being at the PC does not give you an advantage over others in the same way using radar does.

An illegal crafting macro enables you to gain skillpoints and advance crafts faster and more easily than those who do not cheat, providing unfair access to normally expensive crafted items and methods of income that others don't necessarily have.

An illegal radar tool enables you to gain realmpoints and advance realm ranks faster and more easily than those who do not cheat, providing unfair access to advanced realm abilities etc.

I wish people would get it through their heads that people play this game for different reasons. Whilst some people think RvR is king and crafting is crap, there are plenty who think anything from the reverse to somewhere in the middle. Cheating at crafting gives you an advantage over crafters. Cheating at RvR gives you an advantae over RvRers. Cheating at Xping gives you an advantage over other levellers. It's all cheating. None of it is "more important" cheating. The only issue which governs a possible "grade" of the crime is intent.

This guy didn't only just use a macro while he was momentarily facing away from the pc. He didn't accidentally use it the way some people have fallen through a hole in the game. You don't go to the trouble of finding a program, downloading it and installing it and then running it, just because your girlfriend asked you to dress your son. His cheating was premeditated and may or may not have been occuring at other times than during the incident when he was caught. The balance of probablity says that he probably used it before and would have used it again if he hadn't got caught.

 

[vintervargen]

can't say i see macro'ing in pve or crafting as a chat. more like a buyscript in CS. it saves you time, but wont give you an edge when it matters (pvp).

 

[Meduza]

can't say i see macro'ing in pve or crafting as a chat. more like a buyscript in CS. it saves you time, but wont give you an edge when it matters (pvp).

omg, I agree!

 

[cougar]

macro = chat?

 

[Shike]

It's a clear case of abuse though; hardware hacking If your toons can XP without any input whatsoever, fine - keep in mind though that the accounts will disconnect eventually anyway; bypassing this by jamming down keys is illegal.

heh ok... guess Ill have to settle with doing it manually silly thing is that Chanter's focusshield just keep going until autolog and is in no need to be touched really. FoP is needed every now and then, and mentahot pretty much all the time. So it aint really hard doing this

 

[Wazkyr]

Woot, 25 sides of reading, longest post i ever seen, and yes, does macro=chat? it seems so. Still talking about crafting macros or just gone wild? (im to lazy to read all the posts)

 

[Heath]

Well...i have been tailoring on my Sorc for ages now. he is still only in the 500s. but, i would no way ever think about using a macro to do it for me. I have 3 kids, aged from 10 years to 18 months. If my wife wants me to do something to help i have to stop what i am doing and help. That is where you get an advantage over me, you level quicker than i do. And, for the person who said it doesnt matter where it counts PvE..it does...your crafting level will be higher, ie better crafted stuff..better SCed stuff over my bought/ hand me downs. that is also an advantge. And as for saying about taking GoA to court....it will be thrown out even before it reaches it..as you yourself have said in this thread "i used a 3rd party program"==cheat. And, imo all cheaters should be banned without warning. Screw what you think, i dont cheat. You accept the rules when you click the button. Tough titties if you get caught. I only got to about page 13 before i got piss bored and jumped to the end, but it seems as though most people are quite happy you got banned. So am i. Hopefully the will ban thr radar abusing twats too when they catch them. And, i hope more of them whine on here about it too so we can all see what childish attitudes they have. "I cheated, i got caught, i got banned..whah whah whah...why me...Mythic sucks....you will pay for it when WoW comes out" ...blah blah blah..same old same old. If you didnt get banned you would prolly still be playing DAoC when WoW came out anyway. Stop the whine..live with it and take your scummy cheating attitude to the next game (and get banned)..then the next game (and get banned)..etc etc etc.

Oh yeah..did i say QQ you cheating twat. and a pat on the back to the Gm's. restores your faith in the game.

 

[Oidche]

An illegal crafting macro enables you to gain skillpoints and advance crafts faster and more easily than those who do not cheat, providing unfair access to normally expensive crafted items and methods of income that others don't necessarily have.

Don't get me wrong, I said "not in the same way". Although I totally agree that any form of cheating should have severe repercussions, a perm ban the first time is too harsh. Why?

First: crafting, unlike RvR is incredibly boring. It's tempting to use a macro button because all you do is read a book while pressing "1" every 30 seconds. It's no excuse, but it's tempting.

Second: you cannot start the macro in the evening, and find you're LGM in the morning. You can only craft so much, and you can also only craft about 30 items before they go green and you're just wasting money. So you can only do semi-afk crafting.

Third: you have to earn the money to craft, which costs a lot of time in itself. In most games training crafting gives you money, DAoC is the only game I know where crafting costs money.

Fourth: while crafting, you cannot do anything else in-game, and because you still have to check up on the game you have to be semi-at keyboard. So I don't think macroers go up that much faster.

To sum this up: I think macro-crafting is not as 'bad' as radar stuff, which gives a very big advantage, much higher IMHO than macro-crafting does. yes, they are both premeditated, but we also have different punishments for robbery and murder.

Again: I think repeat offenders should be perm-banned, don't get me wrong on this. But I think resetting tradeskills would have been enough punishment already for a first time offence.

 

[Heath]

But, how do we know this guy has not used it before and have just gotten away with it so far...i cannot believe his missus asked him to sort out the nipper, so he looked for a macro program, downloaded it, set it up and then patiently sat by the pc while sorting the baby out. he must have had it in the first place...which, must mean that he has used it before. So, even if we go by the situation of being banned for a few days for the first time..and perma-banned for using it again...he must be perma banned because i cannot believe it is his first time ever using it. Saying that he has not been caught til now really does not justify the fact for doing it anyway. And, i have never been tempted to cheat/macro for anything in the game. I have played it for over 2 years now and have hard grafted my way through it all. if others like the easy option let them fook off and buy a speak and spell.

 

[Driwen]

can't say i see macro'ing in pve or crafting as a chat. more like a buyscript in CS. it saves you time, but wont give you an edge where it matters (pvp).

but then again if you could get your complete armour without any work in an instant, you would probably like that (if you are sure goa wont punish you for it). Some/most people do like to pve and some enjoy the result they get from hours of crafting, these macro's cheapen it.

edit: if your punishment is weaker than what the offender could have gained than you arent scaring people away from doing it. If you just wipe someones tradeskill as first offense than someone can use it, hope to get to lgm with it and then not use it anymore or they could use it till they get caught but have earned xx money with it. Sure you dont have to perma ban them, but just resetting tradeskill means that if you start at 0 with macroing you wont loose anything. Except maybe a litlle bit of money, but at 750 you can trinket and it doesnt cost to much to get to 750 iirc.

 

[Teiten]

Well I think GOA may have put their foot in it this time.....

mate, saying that you werent afk while using a craft macro (even if its true) is like saying that you had radar but you didnt look at it, or that the dog ate the homework.

ofc they wont belive you

 

[Meduza]

To sum this up: I think macro-crafting is not as 'bad' as radar stuff, which gives a very big advantage, much higher IMHO than macro-crafting does. yes, they are both premeditated, but we also have different punishments for robbery and murder.

That does indeed sums it up for those retards saying "perma-ban macro-crafters and raders cuz they both cheat"!

 

[Teiten]

ops, this post was longer then i thought :> sorry if i was off topic or draging up something you already heard tons of times before

 

[Vesania]

That does indeed sums it up for those retards saying "perma-ban macro-crafters and raders cuz they both cheat"!

People who don't share your opinion are not necessary retards, though you might be an exception.

 

[Aloca]

I would like to know Goas view on Fraps.

Fraps is used by quite a few people to record what you do ingame.
Thing is that it also show your computers exact fps. when running to emain you have like 110-120fps when close to amg 90-100 fps. if a fg there it drops to 80-90. if it goes below 80 it is a zerg.
Not saying i used that program

 

[Meduza]

People who don't share your opinion are not necessary retards

Ofc they r! Hence me calling them retards, retard!

 

[Iceforge]

When im crafting i just stand in the same place, read a book and press the same key everytime an item is made, therefore i would have the same serverlogs as that... this mean im gonna have to run around aegir every 10 minutes to prove im not afk and not get banned?

CBA to read through all the stuff to see if someone else replied, sorry if they did!

Req got you a short answer, he is the long one (i assume)

Humans arent very accurat, to say the least and I imagine a server log will show more like:

12:21:21:23 (Hours : minuts : seconds : 1/100 - seconds)

If you use a macro, it will probarly be the same interval down to 1/100 seconds between each hit, which tbh, is inhuman to do!

Just my guess, but I strongly assume this is one way to see if it is a macro or not...

 

[Garnet]

This thread still open?

 

[[AB]Shirtan]

1.
For the people who only post to the thread about wether Juj is whining or not should read
the thread fully before tossing around accusations, as he do not want his account back.
The discussion in question is that we get mixed signals from the herald run by mythic and
the gm's, unfortunately GOA do not run the great service of Sanya's grab bags where we can
get out questions answered in the same way. Therefore most people look towards that same
grab bag, and look puzzled when such actions are taken by the GM.

2.
"but but but he didnt just download a macro program by accident, ergo he must have used it before!!"
Have it occured to you guys that a macro prog can be used for other things than crafting in daoc???

3.
Btw as there is allways a bit of lag on the internet i would suspect that the game upload a copy of
its local time, else that kind of logs would be worthless. Does this then means that if i use
a program to set my local time after another server(which might change randomly every second)
im cheating because im using a 3rd party program that screws up the normal logs?

And yes so far this thread is still open which imo is a good thing, I for one would like to find out
what grab bags i can read and trust and which i will have to enter into rightnow to
find out how GOA feels about every topic on it.

And last but not least us who still reads this thread with interest won't get helped by posts about
if this thread are still open...

/Shirtan

PS. any chance in the future to get an open discussion with GM's about putting up a good and solid knowledge base like The Herald has, so we don't get these threads again??

 

[vintervargen]

macro = chat?

Yesterday Choka stole my E.

 

[cougar]

a bit offtopic iknow, but do you m8s think its legal to use a crafting macro as long as you are present at the computer?

 

[Eroa]

a bit offtopic iknow, but do you m8s think its legal to use a crafting macro as long as you are present at the computer?

You gonna get this thread close now when going so off topic cgr