Is It Leagal To use a crafting macro as long as you are presant at the computer?

[Merrilow]

It's the consumer's responsiblity to read the contract and make sure they understand the T+C's before agreeing with it. Unless GoA deliberately withheld information concerning the contract you've got no argument in court.

tbh Goa's servers, they've got the power, you've read and accepted the fact that they've got this power. Give it up

Since no one knows the laws binding Goa I'd say this topic is mainly idle speculation.

 

[Maleg]

Actually if you read the whole thread you would read that Mythic apparently allows macroing when you are by the keyboard. So in some waye it actually is an issue as most players thought we were playing under the same rules.

/Shirtan

My understanding is the use of any 3rd party tool or application that directly interacts with the gameplay (i.e. performs an action) is illegal, wether it be here or in the US.

 

[cougar]

My understanding is the use of any 3rd party tool or application that directly interacts with the gameplay (i.e. performs an action) is illegal, wether it be here or in the US.

Mythic banned a guy for using Fraps.

 

[Chrystina]

contradiction?

Leaving your pet in aggressive mode in a green monsters' spawn camp is thus forbidden.

am I the only one to spot the contradiction here? in the other (now locked) thread about the afk xp'er Requiel himself said that afk xp'ing (pet on aggro in neutral mob zone) IS NOT illegal as long as you don't take measures to prevent yourself from being auto-disconnected (and of course don't disturb other players). what now? allowed or not? Gamemaster says yes, GOA website says no... getting confused now...

 

[Aremeriel]

My understanding is the use of any 3rd party tool or application that directly interacts with the gameplay (i.e. performs an action) is illegal, wether it be here or in the US.

Depends on what you mean with performs an action.

Devices like this (Nostromo, MS Strategic Commander etc) have both legitimate and infringing functions. Mapping keys to a different device to make game play more comfortable isn't a problem.
Using the programmable macro functions on those devices to automate significant portions of the game is infringing and will get you into trouble.

Edit:

am I the only one to spot the contradiction here? in the other (now locked) thread about the afk xp'er Requiel himself said that afk xp'ing (pet on aggro in neutral mob zone) IS NOT illegal as long as you don't take measures to prevent yourself from being auto-disconnected (and of course don't disturb other players). what now? allowed or not? Gamemaster says yes, GOA website says no... getting confused now...

Me too

 

[Thorwyn]

Maybe... like.. you know... use common sense and actually work for your xp/crafting points yourself instead of splitting hair and contemplating if´s?
If people were half as diligent and dedicated when playing and levelling as they seem to be when looking for gaps in the rules, we wouldn´t have the entire problem.

 

[Aremeriel]

Maybe... like.. you know... use common sense and actually work for your xp/crafting points yourself instead of splitting hair and contemplating if´s?
If people were half as diligent and dedicated when playing and levelling as they seem to be when looking for gaps in the rules, we wouldn´t have the entire problem.

Some of the points made in this thread are quite good. If you want to stay within the rules and not risk getting banned, common sense is good, but getting a direct answer from the people "responsible" for banning etc is even better. However, the thing about afk exping is confusing me, when GOA says it's illegal, but the GM says it's not illegal as such.

 

[Maleg]

Depends on what you mean with performs an action.

common sense and a little intelligence would tell you that mapping a single action i.e. a single spell / style to a different key (or button) shouldn't be a problem. Where as mapping a series of actions or having a 'tool' automatically perform an action without you pressing a key / button would be a problem.

Fact is somebody used an external tool to automate a task, got caught and banned. In this incidence the punishment may be a bit harsh for the crime but GOA have taken a stance that use of any external application in this or a similar manner will not be tollerated. IF GOA don't condone the use of such tools it is cheating. The less cheats in the game the better.

 

[Maleg]

Some of the points made in this thread are quite good. If you want to stay within the rules and not risk getting banned, common sense is good, but getting a direct answer from the people "responsible" for banning etc is even better. However, the thing about afk exping is confusing me, when GOA says it's illegal, but the GM says it's not illegal as such.

Sorry but how about just play the game? AFK leveling isn't playing the game, nor is creating a macro to automate tasks without physical interaction. Even if they're not explicitly prohibited they shouldn't be tollerated. Geez some people.

 

[Thorwyn]

Well.. my last post wasn´t aimed at you or Chrysthina. It was aimed at the fact that this thread is going on for 30+ pages and people are still discussing the circumstances where a little cheating and macroing would be tolerated and we´re constructing situation after situation after situation. This entire thread is - by now - more a philosophical excercise than a discussion.


I agree that contradicting informations are pretty confusing. However, in a situation like this I`d always tend to believe the company instead of the GM (nothing against the GM, but the probability that one person is making a false interpretation of the rules is higher than the probability that the company doesn´t know its´own rules ). And when in doubt, always go for the worst case scenario.

 

[Aremeriel]

common sense and a little intelligence would tell you that mapping a single action i.e. a single spell / style to a different key (or button) shouldn't be a problem. Where as mapping a series of actions or having a 'tool' automatically perform an action without you pressing a key / button would be a problem.

Totally agree about less cheats in the game the better. And you're totally missing my point with that post, so nevermind.

Sorry but how about just play the game? AFK leveling isn't playing the game, nor is creating a macro to automate tasks without physical interaction. Even if they're not explicitly prohibited they shouldn't be tollerated. Geez some people.

I just play the game. I've never cheated in DAoC for as long as I've played it, unless you call strafing cheating like a lot of others do. If that is cheating, then I'm guilty (towards mobs). I rarely get the time to move at all once I've been hit in RvR. Not all people who ask about the EULA etc wants to cheat, some actually do it so they can use their beloved game pad without being considered cheating.
Why are you saying "Geez some people" when you have no idea how I play the game? I know it may not be directed at me, but since you write that under a direct quote by me, it certainly seems so. I totally agree that AFK exping shouldn't be allowed, I never said otherwise. I just said that GOA's and Requiel's stands on it confuses me, since GOA says one thing and Requiel another.
For the record, Maleg, I have 2 chars who can use pets. A BD lvl 24 (I think), leveled the old fashion way with my BF and his BD in Nisse. We wanted to see for ourselves what all the fuzz was about concerning BDs. The other char is lvl 20 SM and it's autoleveled. I haven't played it more than a couple times either.
And the part of my quote you used there was directed at the Nostromo/Game Pad issue.

This entire thread is - by now - more a philosophical excercise than a discussion.

Totally agree...

I agree that contradicting informations are pretty confusing. However, in a situation like this I`d always tend to believe the company instead of the GM (nothing against the GM, but the probability that one person is making a false interpretation of the rules is higher than the probability that the company doesn´t know its´own rules ). And when in doubt, always go for the worst case scenario.

Well... I wouldn't even dream of AFK exping. Up until I read about it in that other thread, I didn't even think of the possibility, LOL... However, if Requiel is one of the persons responsible for banning people, he should know GOA's stand on such a thing, especially when it's on their website for all of us to see...

 

[Rincewald]

Taken from the 20/02/2004 Grab Bag...

See http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1347.shtml

Q: My question is regarding my Belkin Nostromo N52. It allows recordable macros which would allow me to craft without actually pressing any buttons.

Is this against the rules? My guildmates informed me that it may get me banned or my Alch skill reset. So, I have not used it yet. Please let me know.

A: Your guildmates are right on. From the head of in-game customer service: ”When we catch people using this, we first suspend the player for 5 days and wipe all of his tradeskills to zero. Second time is a ban.”

 

[IainC]

An official announcement by Goa on their news site over-rules anything I or any other Goa employee may state on an unofficial forum such as this. My understanding of the rules regarding AFK exping was wrong and I apologise for any confusion this may have caused.

 

[Aremeriel]

An official announcement by Goa on their news site over-rules anything I or any other Goa employee may state on an unofficial forum such as this. My understanding of the rules regarding AFK exping was wrong and I apologise for any confusion this may have caused.

Ta..

 

[Sycorax]

Banning is not illegal - they can terminate the contract between player and provider at any time provided they stay within the rules outlined in that contract. They did. There is no law in any EU state that says a private company such as GOA must give all persons equal access to their servers. They are privately owned servers and you pay for use of them in accordance with the EULA and CoC. If feel you don't wish to be bound by GOAs terms then you have the option of rejecting the contract, however to access the game you must have clicked I Agree which legally states your acceptance.

I agree GOA can ban him, or do pretty much whatever they like with his membership. What they can't do is keep any advance subscription he has paid. You can subscribe for up to a year in advance, no way they have the right to keep that if they ban him.

 

[NeonBlue]

I agree GOA can ban him, or do pretty much whatever they like with his membership. What they can't do is keep any advance subscription he has paid. You can subscribe for up to a year in advance, no way they have the right to keep that if they ban him.

why not?

i would say he has forfitied his right by cheating, so therefore its his own fault

again when u press the magic button "accept" u adhere to those conditions

and until someone challenges GOA in a court about this type of thing...i aint gonna say anything different

 

[Sycorax]

why not?

i would say he has forfitied his right by cheating, so therefore its his own fault

again when u press the magic button "accept" u adhere to those conditions

and until someone challenges GOA in a court about this type of thing...i aint gonna say anything different

Because the write the little boxes you click accept on. They can change them at any time in any way, and don't even have to tell you they've changed it. While the EULA and agreements give them some rights, just because they wrote it does not make it "law".
If they accept payment for service in advance, that's fine. If they terminate a contract as is their right, as expressed in the contract, that's fine. Keeping the payment for service that they now refuse to deliver is not right. The person has done nothing illegal. Payment for future service should be refunded, and the case would actually be fairly easy to win in small claims court, France or UK, or most other countries for that matter.

 

[sibanac]

Because the write the little boxes you click accept on. They can change them at any time in any way, and don't even have to tell you they've changed it. While the EULA and agreements give them some rights, just because they wrote it does not make it "law".
If they accept payment for service in advance, that's fine. If they terminate a contract as is their right, as expressed in the contract, that's fine. Keeping the payment for service that they now refuse to deliver is not right. The person has done nothing illegal. Payment for future service should be refunded, and the case would actually be fairly easy to win in small claims court, France or UK, or most other countries for that matter.

tbh it doesnt realy matter if its legal or not, nobody is going to start an international case for 60 euro's, the legal costs are just to high.
even talking to a lawyer about the case will cost you more then that.

 

[Sycorax]

tbh it doesnt realy matter if its legal or not, nobody is going to start an international case for 60 euro's, the legal costs are just to high.
even talking to a lawyer about the case will cost you more then that.

Over 100€ if he's recently resubscribed on the yearly plan.
Small claims court costs very little to lodge the complaint, and it's pretty easy to prepare yourself. I've used it, and won, several times in the past. The cost of lodging is paid for by them if you win, by you if you lose. Also, the court will usually add interest for the time taken since they should have paid.

 

[NeonBlue]

ahh well whilst i can see both sides of this argument....we aint gonna ever know till someone prooves it either way

so whos 1st?

 

[Meduza]

"Court room are battlegrounds of the rich!" (some1 famous once said that)

And yes, no1 will ever prove EULA wrong over 100 euros... Sadly, tho, cuz they would win, and would set presedence in future games.

Imo its too easy for Goa to just ban ppl if u do this and that. Imo they should name and shame so the community could take actions instead (kicking them from guild etc). And keep the name and shame up for e.g. a month or two depending what cheat the did, naming all chars on the account (with constant update so they cant delete and remake). That would be better, and Goa wouldnt do anything illegal (by banning ppl!).

 

[Danya]

They could probably sue for mental distress from the naming and shaming (especially in the US) and get more money than any settlement over banning would be.

 

[Meduza]

They could probably sue for mental distress from the naming and shaming (especially in the US) and get more money than any settlement over banning would be.

lol, probably

 

[Driwen]

Imo its too easy for Goa to just ban ppl if u do this and that. Imo they should name and shame so the community could take actions instead (kicking them from guild etc). And keep the name and shame up for e.g. a month or two depending what cheat the did, naming all chars on the account (with constant update so they cant delete and remake). That would be better, and Goa wouldnt do anything illegal (by banning ppl!).

thing is, doesnt name and shame mean they give private info out that isnt their to give out?

 

[Meduza]

thing is, doesnt name and shame mean they give private info out that isnt their to give out?

I wouldnt call account names "priv info". Those who got "named" would probably

edit: dont mean acc name, but character names ofc

 

[Driwen]

I wouldnt call account names "priv info". Those who got "named" would probably

edit: dont mean acc name, but character names ofc

well that xx cheated is info between goa and the person. Revealing it would probably be in violate of privacy or something and better worded (note im just guessing here), which is also why none of the mmorpgs companies do name and shame.

 

[Anastasia]

well that xx cheated is info between goa and the person. Revealing it would probably be in violate of privacy or something and better worded (note im just guessing here), which is also why none of the mmorpgs companies do name and shame.

The difference is that this is purely in-game information, and could be covered by the EULA quite legally.

Unlike the current "we reserve the right to take your money then refuse to provide the service you have paid for" stance that GOA (and others) currently take.

 

[Lau Cusa]

FYI

Asheron's Call had a name and shame policy - they named and shamed every player that they caught UCM'ing on the whatever server and named their main accounts too.

 

[Meduza]

woo hoo

I who thought this thread was dead

btw, whats "UCM" ?

 

[Morchaoron]