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nalistah
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- #361
just read the fucking facts and hard data above.
just read the fucking facts and hard data above.
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Appollo
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- #362
1 button infils <----- for all those ppl who wonder why Sb's call us 1 button winners!
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-RG-Jaond
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- #363
if you play ALOT donttouchpoopy you can be just a skilled 1buttoninfil like Elajt
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BidAccount
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- #364
What facts and hard data?
All I see are the opinions of the same few paople.
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-RG-Jaond
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- #365
Stop the spamming and show me the list of 10 infil disadvantage you could make in 3min now
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nalistah
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- #366
why do i get the feeling that im talkin to a wall?
Its just an oppinoin that infils get 2.5spec points?
is it just an oppinion that u can choose to spec dmg type? etc etc etc etc etc etc.....
OMG u are not for real
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BidAccount
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- #367
Right - found 10 minutes free.
Specially for Jaond:
PLEAS NOTE - LIST EXISTS PURELY AS AN EXCISE TO SHOW THAT ANY CLASS CAN LIST ITS WEAKNESSES BUT BY DOING SO IT DOES NOT MAKE THE CLASS WEAK.
1. Infiltrators, whilst having access to str/dex and str based weapons, do not have access to slow weapons in the str/dex line. This places them at a frontloaded damage disadvantage compared to SBs, who also are able to utilise the ‘permahaste’ effect to gain slow weapon speed damage at the same speed as faster thrust weapons. (Disadvantage addressed by introduction of slower weapons in 1.64)
2. The thrust line is a poorly constructed one, and selected by infiltrators for two reasons – the level 50 style and use of the infiltrators primary stat towards weponskill.
3. Infils armour is crush vuln and thrust resistant. Only 2 midgard classes may spec thrust (and both also get slash in the same spec line), whilst crush remains a very popular midgard choice, and the damage type of preference for Hibernian classes facing Albion. Infiltrators do not have an advantageous armour resistance like SBs or NS.
4. Vanish is a bugged, and mostly useless, class specific RA.
5 T.o gain an evade based stun Infils must spec in thrust to 50. Thrust has 2 viable styles, 1 evade reactionery and 1 rear positional. SBs gain a 2 stage evade reactionery stun at 39 spec in offhand line – allowing them to select either axe or sword and still gain a relatively easy to use stun for 450 spec points less.
6. The 0.3 extra spec points is mostly eaten up by needing to spec 50 thrust for an evade based stun – this leaves 350 spec points to create the balanced spec intended by mythics allocation of these additional points. Norse SBs (current race of choice since evade cap) have 150-200 more HPs, plus access to 2H weapons – whilst opinion on these varies, CS spec’d SBs do favour these.
7. DW is far less reliable than LA. Whilst tests have shown for equal spec the damage over time is comparablet, DW is unreliable in a sustained fight. A SB will land all poisons faster than an Infil, thus gaining an advantage, whilst the infils percentage chance to swing places them at the vaguaries of the random number generator – sometimes this will favour them, sometimes it will not fire for a whole fight.
I don't expect Nalistah to understand this, but I repeat - this was a quick exercise to show any class can list their weaknesses, but thit does not make that class weak. This list is not exhaustive, nor is it a discussion of the Infil class. However I do fully expect some moron (Nalistah) to misunderstand this and misquote an element.
Specially for Jaond:
PLEAS NOTE - LIST EXISTS PURELY AS AN EXCISE TO SHOW THAT ANY CLASS CAN LIST ITS WEAKNESSES BUT BY DOING SO IT DOES NOT MAKE THE CLASS WEAK.
1. Infiltrators, whilst having access to str/dex and str based weapons, do not have access to slow weapons in the str/dex line. This places them at a frontloaded damage disadvantage compared to SBs, who also are able to utilise the ‘permahaste’ effect to gain slow weapon speed damage at the same speed as faster thrust weapons. (Disadvantage addressed by introduction of slower weapons in 1.64)
2. The thrust line is a poorly constructed one, and selected by infiltrators for two reasons – the level 50 style and use of the infiltrators primary stat towards weponskill.
3. Infils armour is crush vuln and thrust resistant. Only 2 midgard classes may spec thrust (and both also get slash in the same spec line), whilst crush remains a very popular midgard choice, and the damage type of preference for Hibernian classes facing Albion. Infiltrators do not have an advantageous armour resistance like SBs or NS.
4. Vanish is a bugged, and mostly useless, class specific RA.
5 T.o gain an evade based stun Infils must spec in thrust to 50. Thrust has 2 viable styles, 1 evade reactionery and 1 rear positional. SBs gain a 2 stage evade reactionery stun at 39 spec in offhand line – allowing them to select either axe or sword and still gain a relatively easy to use stun for 450 spec points less.
6. The 0.3 extra spec points is mostly eaten up by needing to spec 50 thrust for an evade based stun – this leaves 350 spec points to create the balanced spec intended by mythics allocation of these additional points. Norse SBs (current race of choice since evade cap) have 150-200 more HPs, plus access to 2H weapons – whilst opinion on these varies, CS spec’d SBs do favour these.
7. DW is far less reliable than LA. Whilst tests have shown for equal spec the damage over time is comparablet, DW is unreliable in a sustained fight. A SB will land all poisons faster than an Infil, thus gaining an advantage, whilst the infils percentage chance to swing places them at the vaguaries of the random number generator – sometimes this will favour them, sometimes it will not fire for a whole fight.
I don't expect Nalistah to understand this, but I repeat - this was a quick exercise to show any class can list their weaknesses, but thit does not make that class weak. This list is not exhaustive, nor is it a discussion of the Infil class. However I do fully expect some moron (Nalistah) to misunderstand this and misquote an element.
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Elric IA
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- #368
Why when all alb armour is slash neutral and certain classes are crush resistant (all chain wearers like minstrels, clerics, etc.)?
Crush is good for Friars, Tin-cans and infils though
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Puppetmistress
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- #369
I dont really understand the 'thus' if you include races into the equation as well as buffbot. How big is this weaponskill-difference in practice for a norse SB versus an Alb Thrust infil Briton?
Thats no disadvantage on itselves, it becomes an disadvantage after str/con debuffs or armour-weakness. Dont include it double.
Correct. This one is true. Remember the bolt part
Yes
Yes, however your offhand swings all the time which is easier for an extra set of poison to land.
Matter of opinion and semantics. All of a sudden you exclude race into the equation, but you include armourtables. What exactly IS the hp-difference when you choose a Norse SB over a Lurikeen NS ? It's not 5% for sure then anymore.
Correct, however, think back to the bold quote #3 and notice how you're RESISTANT to most infiltrators and nightshades. I mean: You say most spec thrust/pierce. You happen to be resistant to this.
ROTFL. Sorry, this is so 'looking for downsides'. Might as well add as downside that Norseman are uglier then Britons. I mean, X-Bows? Throwing Knifes?! The damage it does is ridicilious, both. Whining about the costs made me even smile more. ROTFL
This has nothing to do with the Shadowblade but with Midgard Realm. According to your own reasoning in point #6 where you make 2H a Midgard-ability.
Yes, but your chance to swing offhand is still 100% even with 1 in LA. The penalty in CD/DW is that your offhand doesnt swing every time. Also creating lower haste dps profit because if offhand doesnt swing you dont benefit from haste-effect.
As you see, most points are VERY mild and abit turned towards the point where it suites the SB or not.
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jua-
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- #370
just some things i wanna say. Dont plainly throw the argument sbs with enervating lose so much weaponskill and infs ns just hald since they are str/dext. Think of the styles that each use. A higher to hit bonus style is harder to evade than a low to hit. Garrote achil are crappy to hit styles, so overall even with half ws lost infs get evaded a lot that goes as well for nightshades too. Another thing is that infs dmg is heavily dependant on the left hand when striking in each attack. Those are unstyled hits therefor they are evaded easily. As far as the infs owning and all, well most infs are 50 dw nowdays, they dont pa but they do better dmg over time. Dont forget the 50 dw style has really good to hit bonus so it doenst get evaded that easily. As far as the dragonfang its a really good style, but its counterable with ras. Even in shorter duration df sbs/ns wouldnt stand a chance you either purge it or loose. Infs need the 9 secs tho to take out tanks such as warriors heroes/hunters (with full ras)and so I am sure you guys can take out some of our tanks too so....
You guys dont know how hard hunters are for us if they are well build, sbs and ns are not the only stealthers around you know
as far as slash infs they might have good styles and weapons but the disadvantage is that they loose twice as much weaponskill from enervating poisons.
I am sure you guys can take out some of our tanks too so....You guys dont know how hard hunters are for us if they are well build, sbs and ns are not the only stealthers around you know
as far as slash infs they might have good styles and weapons but the disadvantage is that they loose twice as much weaponskill from enervating poisons.
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Xandax
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- #371
Also remember the dex/qui. of thoese classes - thus they swing faster then norse. Regarding Kobolds I'd think the HP is much closer, other then the 5%.
Remember that LA-users *loose* damage by simply equipping the off-hand weapon, and *have* to spec high in LA just to get that loss dimnished, while a DW/CD can spec nothing and still get 100% damage with a %swingchance on off hand, *and* retain the 100% main hand damage.
That is something LA simply can not do. Both weapons might swing each time, but they do so for less damage per swing.
Add to this the allready lower spec points and you get an apparent flaw in reasoning that the one class that needs to spec off hand high to keep damage has less spec. points then one that doesn't.
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BidAccount
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- #372
That infils get 2.5 spec points is fact.
That they can spec 2 damage types is fact.
Neither of these support your assertion that infils are overpowered, or dragonfang is unbalancing. Now if you've got hard data to support this then post it, if not stfu.
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behatch
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- #373
Originally posted by jua-
just some things i wanna say. Dont plainly throw the argument sbs with enervating lose so much weaponskill and infs ns just hald since they are str/dext. Think of the styles that each use. A higher to hit bonus style is harder to evade than a low to hit. Garrote achil are crappy to hit styles, so overall even with half ws lost infs get evaded a lot that goes as well for nightshades too. Another thing is that infs dmg is heavily dependant on the left hand when striking in each attack. Those are unstyled hits therefor they are evaded easily. As far as the infs owning and all, well most infs are 50 dw nowdays, they dont pa but they do better dmg over time. Dont forget the 50 dw style has really good to hit bonus so it doenst get evaded that easily. As far as the dragonfang its a really good style, but its counterable with ras. Even in shorter duration df sbs/ns wouldnt stand a chance you either purge it or loose. Infs need the 9 secs tho to take out tanks such as warriors heroes/hunters (with full ras)and so
You guys dont know how hard hunters are for us if they are well build, sbs and ns are not the only stealthers around you know
as far as slash infs they might have good styles and weapons but the disadvantage is that they loose twice as much weaponskill from enervating poisons.
stealthers arent supposed to be able to kill tanks
DW+df is overpowered nerf
nerf....
yee they loose wep skill like sb do..nerf
scouts can be hard as they specc 42 shield and have evade+ip so if u try high rr scout u can die without purge,but dependant on how often he blocks your mainhand attack,if ur useing doublefrost you loose end really fast(if blocks at lot at start)
lol hunters hard? as far as i'm aware they get wtfpwd in melee
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Carlos Bananos
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- Thread starter
- #374
And how did you come to this conclusion?
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behatch
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- #375
Originally posted by -RG-Jaond
Stop the spamming and show me the list of 10 infil disadvantage you could make in 3min now
maybe next week u'll get there list,if its possible to come up with 10
maybe 2 or 3
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behatch
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- Thread starter
- #376
why do u think assasins dont get grps? then die fast.
why do tanks get grps? they dont die fast and do good dmg
why are tanks called tanks? because tehre ment o be hardest class in the game. assasins arent.
but if assasins are supposed to be able to kill tanks then....
nerf hero,pally,arms,merc,champ,savage,
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lorric
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- #377
ive killed plenty of tanks just dont attack the RR6+RR7 tanks and expect to win unless your buffed and they arent.
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heists
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- #378
imo we should, if there is any class that should be good in 1vs1 its stealthers, pure tanks solo in emain without grp support should die easy
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old.anubis
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- #379
healers also shouldnt be able to kill tanks
but they can ^^
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BidAccount
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- #380
Originally posted by behatch
maybe next week u'll get there list,if its possible to come up with 10
Hmm - well in 10 mins without seeing Jaonds post I knocked out a quick half dozen.
Maybe you should check before posting crap next time.
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Driwen
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- #381
stealthers can pick their targets and set the situation where the fight start, thats why they should be good in 1vs1. Imo almost every class should win vs every other class if the situation is favourable. stealthers unless they use cs/bow (minstrell stun, dd, mezz) they shouldnt win a fight vs a non stealther (except maybe mages/support class). Off course thats more talking about how the game should work in my opinion than how it is.
Anyway stealthers should be good in 1 vs1 as they get the drop on somebody, but out of stealth they should vunerable. Ow and a pure tank solo should have a chance of killing a stealther that is if the stealther makes a mistake or if the stealther is an archer and the tank a shield tank
.edit: donttouchpoopy twohander isnt that nice except for a PA as you will get evaded more than if you would dualwield (it seems that DW'ing decreases evade chance of your opponent). Also DW'ing will increase your damage (over time) than if you go twohander.
Now sure having a twohander is nice, but it isnt a wise choice to have it equiped except for a hard opening hit (PA), because vs defensive tanks their shield will be higher specced than parry so better to half their shield than parry and you will be doing more damage when dualwielding.
And having vanish bugged is hardly a disadvantage vs SB's as sb's have an even shittier class specific RA, besides it can be used at times just not all the time.
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behatch
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- #382
most of your threads are crap bull sht
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behatch
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- #383
comes as commen sense tbh
but an infil kiling a warrior 1Vs 1 is wrong,if assasin so uber and elite after savage nerf i want to see 2sb and 1warrior grps
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witte-
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- #384
what's that for bs
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lorric
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- #385
Originally posted by behatch
comes as commen sense tbh
If i can with luck kill armsman/pallys why wouldnt a infl be able to kill a warrior, only alb tank that worrys me is a merc/reaver and by worry i mean i wouldnt attack em at all from choice
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BidAccount
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- #386
Fair enough - thats your opinion.
Still - haven't had any response to the challenge to post cold, hrd data to back up any assertion that the infil is overpowered.
Guess there isn't any.
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knoll
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- Thread starter
- #387
well this is a scenario that arent uncommon when my purge is down face various inf hit he evades im DF'ed and stunned if im lucky i can manage to hit 1 blow when stun dropps but hey im stone dead.
ok u say u dont land DF every fight and thats pure BS perhaps 1 out of 10 fights i dont get DF'ed.
imagine your WS dropp to 800 how often do u think a inf evade your attack then doesnt take a genious to figure that out does it and u still claim it aint over powered.
i do 140 dmg main hand SZ specced various rr5+ inf do the same using DF even though it fails and of course eventually it lands and fight is over.
ok u say u dont land DF every fight and thats pure BS perhaps 1 out of 10 fights i dont get DF'ed.
imagine your WS dropp to 800 how often do u think a inf evade your attack then doesnt take a genious to figure that out does it and u still claim it aint over powered.
i do 140 dmg main hand SZ specced various rr5+ inf do the same using DF even though it fails and of course eventually it lands and fight is over.
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ztyx
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- #388
regarding Dragon Fang?
It gives a 9 sec stun effect directly after an evade.
http://www.camelotherald.com/styles/style.php?s=60&line=2
There you have it
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BidAccount
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- #389
Wow - genius....
So - you have dozens, nay hundreads, of logs to back that up then?
It would be unkind of me to suggest you are an assmaster.
But then again, I'm not that kind.
So - you have dozens, nay hundreads, of logs to back that up then?
It would be unkind of me to suggest you are an assmaster.
But then again, I'm not that kind.
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lorric
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- #390
no but unlike u hes had 8realm ranks of geting fucked over by infs?