Infils = 2 button class

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by nalistah
not only on exc QQ

http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?threadid=85989

its a fact that the style is overpowered on a 50% evading class. Dont try make it sound that its not, it just dont hold

You have proof? Hard data?

No - didn't think so. Just your usual unsubstantiated rambling opinion.

Like I said - don't see well informed players whining, just the usual couple of boardtrolls.

(And btw get facts right - infils are not a 50% evading class. They are one of many classes with a 50% evade cap. What're you're implying and the facts are two very different things)

 

[belth]

cba digging up the thread on VN of the evade rate of a savage with the 25% evade buff active. Suffice to say, he didn't cap.

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
You have proof? Hard data?

No - didn't think so. Just your usual unsubstantiated rambling opinion.

Like I said - don't see well informed players whining, just the usual couple of boardtrolls.

(And btw get facts right - infils are not a 50% evading class. They are one of many classes with a 50% evade cap. What're you're implying and the facts are two very different things)

go write your list n00b until then stfu you got nothing to come with

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by belth
cba digging up the thread on VN of the evade rate of a savage with the 25% evade buff active. Suffice to say, he didn't cap.

you are sure you want to keep this point as I have seen enough good tests which disprove that. Savages CAP(!!!!) at 50% with and without evade buff, carlos had a thread in his sig which proved that, but as he removed it i cant show you the thread but here are some of the data in that thread:

Attacker: Level 1 Viking - WeapSkill: 9
Evader: Level 50 Savage - 202 Dex / 168 Qui - Evade IV

Log Link

Results:

Attacks: 534
Evades: 272 (50.9%)
Parries: 124 (47.3%)

this is without evade buff I think, but evade 4 vs level 1 and capped evade.

Qomwen - Level 50 shaman 694 Weaponskill, 35% bonus hammar

Boilian - Level 50 savage, 345 str, 299 con, 325 dex, 220 quick, 35% bonus armor

Attacking from behind so that parry would not count. Evade buff[21%] was up the whole time...

Attack : 208

Hits : 93 (44.7%)

Evades : 94 (45.2%)

Misses : 21 (18.4%)

shaman and 21% evade buff and no still no cap. So are you sure you want to claim that savages do go above the 50% cap?

 

[skile]

Detaunt only affect missrate? Not evade-rate? Might be wrong. But spamming detaunt might not be that effective.

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
Lets get this absolutely clear though - lots of people complaining about dragonfang=

- 2 well known SB boardtrolls
- a number of clueless ex shadowzerk players who rolled a tank with stealth and now want revenge

I don't see lots of informed players complaining, just the same old handful of names with repeated postings.

I wonder if you really are so ignorant as youi make yourself out to be or you are simply trolling - I lean to the latter just out of respect for my fellow games, but I am not sure.

Saying that only 2 trolls and former SZ "out for revenge" complain about DF and overpowered infils etc, is well, one of the most stupid thing I've seen in this thread.

I will not even start to rebuttle such an accusation, because I'm sure people like you will not accept anything other then the things that make you and your class stand out on top.

Sheezz

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by -RG-Jaond
go write your list n00b until then stfu you got nothing to come with

Then as I've asked about 6 times - gimme the damn link to Haldars original list!

And while I'm doing that - you may want to find that hard data or proof that you must have to assert that DF is overpowered?

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by Xandax
I wonder if you really are so ignorant as youi make yourself out to be or you are simply trolling - I lean to the latter just out of respect for my fellow games, but I am not sure.

Saying that only 2 trolls and former SZ "out for revenge" complain about DF and overpowered infils etc, is well, one of the most stupid thing I've seen in this thread.

I will not even start to rebuttle such an accusation, because I'm sure people like you will not accept anything other then the things that make you and your class stand out on top.

Sheezz

Lets look at this objectively shall we?

Identify where most of the Df whines come from (clue - start with checking Jaond and Nalistah posts).

Set up the hypothesis - is DF overpowered?

Look for hard data, proof and evidence from those making the assertion.

Well - shall we? Or shall we just troll and post mindless 'Nerf Df' threads. Hint - mythic always asks for data and logs to support assertions.

 

[Freppe^^]

elajt is cute ;DDDDDD

 

[leorin]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
Lets look at this objectively shall we?

Identify where most of the Df whines come from (clue - start with checking Jaond and Nalistah posts).

Set up the hypothesis - is DF overpowered?

Look for hard data, proof and evidence from those making the assertion.

Well - shall we? Or shall we just troll and post mindless 'Nerf Df' threads. Hint - mythic always asks for data and logs to support assertions.

Aye and Nalistah is skilled as a dead fish

 

[Freppe^^]

Duja remember!

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
Lets look at this objectively shall we?

Identify where most of the Df whines come from (clue - start with checking Jaond and Nalistah posts).

Set up the hypothesis - is DF overpowered?

Look for hard data, proof and evidence from those making the assertion.

Well - shall we? Or shall we just troll and post mindless 'Nerf Df' threads. Hint - mythic always asks for data and logs to support assertions.

It's the 9sec stun that is overpowerd......................
The 2.5 spec points..................................................

Need no logs and data just "vanligt jävla bonnförnuft"

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
Lets look at this objectively shall we?

Identify where most of the Df whines come from (clue - start with checking Jaond and Nalistah posts).

Set up the hypothesis - is DF overpowered?

Look for hard data, proof and evidence from those making the assertion.

Well - shall we? Or shall we just troll and post mindless 'Nerf Df' threads. Hint - mythic always asks for data and logs to support assertions.

So anybody that belives DF is overpowered is
A) one of the two named "trolls" (or "trolls" by your definition)
B) a SZ out for revenge.

DF alone might not be overpowered, place it on a assassin (high evade) class that does loads of damage, with 2.5 spec points enableing them to get 50 thrust withouth giving up anything.

Then I'd say it is overpowered in that combo on infils.... does this make me A or B?

 

[old.Nol]

sb's and infils both suck hind tit.

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by Xandax
So anybody that belives DF is overpowered is
A) one of the two named "trolls" (or "trolls" by your definition)
B) a SZ out for revenge.

DF alone might not be overpowered, place it on a assassin (high evade) class that does loads of damage, with 2.5 spec points enableing them to get 50 thrust withouth giving up anything.

Then I'd say it is overpowered in that combo on infils.... does this make me A or B?

Or a rear stun style at 50 spec for a class that loses nothing to take it to 50?

Or an anytime stun style at 42 spec that all shield spec classes can easily attain?

or baseline ranged castable stun?

Or ranged AE stun?

All of these are easier to use/more effective than DF. Shouldn't these be nerfed first?

So come on - open challenge. You believe its an overpowered ability - post your hard data and we'll forward it on to mythic. Unless of course you have nada.....

 

[andruril]

Re: Re: Re: Give skalds stealth or remove it from minstrels

Originally posted by Haldar
maybe this will be a discovery to u, but Skalds are on Rogue hp/damage table.

i just talked to a skald ingame, he said that

his hp unbuffed is 1387
his hp buffed is 1950
his WS buffed is 1424

my stats are 1504, 2128, 1488. And infis can break 1550 WS.

so giving Skalds stealth is completely justified

The day i see a stealthed troll skald loom up at my at 1850 distance i'll shit myself laughing

 

[vintervargen]

ppl STILL dont realise df is overpowered? jeeeeeeeeez

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
Or a rear stun style at 50 spec for a class that loses nothing to take it to 50?

Or an anytime stun style at 42 spec that all shield spec classes can easily attain?

or baseline ranged castable stun?

Or ranged AE stun?

All of these are easier to use/more effective than DF. Shouldn't these be nerfed first?

So come on - open challenge. You believe its an overpowered ability - post your hard data and we'll forward it on to mythic. Unless of course you have nada.....

they arent easier to use/more effective, because you (being the mong you are) are comparing stealth-wars with normal rvr. You cant, its an ENTIRELY different ballgame.

Infils have df, and its way too much compared to hunter/sb/ns/ranger.

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
Or a rear stun style at 50 spec for a class that loses nothing to take it to 50?

Or an anytime stun style at 42 spec that all shield spec classes can easily attain?

So come on - open challenge. You believe its an overpowered ability - post your hard data and we'll forward it on to mythic. Unless of course you have nada.....
or baseline ranged castable stun?

Or ranged AE stun?

All of these are easier to use/more effective than DF. Shouldn't these be nerfed first?

If they castable stun were on a stealther class, then yes. (oh wait ..... ) But on a non-offensive class that have all but zero defences but healing ....

If Savages had DF I wonder if you would think it overpowered then?
But I am not waiting for a nerf to infils - i know it will likely not come - to many customers for Mythic to even care about balancing that class, or other heavy played Alb. classes for that matter.
Instead I'll wait for the nerf to the BDs, Healers or SMs in patch 1.66.

Dark Age of Infil-a-lot will evolve down the path, that has been started as of late.

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by Xandax
If they castable stun were on a stealther class, then yes. (oh wait ..... ) But on a non-offensive class that have all but zero defences but healing ....

If Savages had DF I wonder if you would think it overpowered then?
But I am not waiting for a nerf to infils - i know it will likely not come - to many customers for Mythic to even care about balancing that class, or other heavy played Alb. classes for that matter.
Instead I'll wait for the nerf to the BDs, Healers or SMs in patch 1.66.

Dark Age of Infil-a-lot will evolve down the path, that has been started as of late.

Savages are already overpowered. Expect a little more 'balancing' for these in the future either on the RA front, or damage output front.

If savages had the hits, armour, defense etc of an infil - then no it wouldn't be overpowered on them. With savages already significant arsenal of abilities then to add to them in any way would be going further down a road where they are already far ahead of any other tank class..

 

[jox]

Originally posted by Arnor
they arent easier to use/more effective, because you (being the mong you are) are comparing stealth-wars with normal rvr. You cant, its an ENTIRELY different ballgame.

Infils have df, and its way too much compared to hunter/sb/ns/ranger.

Well said Arnor

And donttouchpoopy, plz, shut it, we are so tired of your stupid comments.

 

[Haldar]

donttouchpoopy

http://forums.barrysworld.com/showt...rpage=25&highlight=disadvantages&pagenumber=5

here's original one. took me 30 seconds to find it. ever heard of search function on this board?

1. SBs have no str/dex based weapons, thus our weaponskill is lower.
2. SBs have only one damage type (slash) while our counterparts in other realms have access to 2 types (slash and thrust)
3. SB weapons are str based, thus str/con debuff hurts us more than our counterparts in other realms -- as majority of them specced thrust line which is str/dex based.
4. SB set of RAs is worst between all assasins.
5. SB natural enemies may spec thrust line as main weapon and get an evade-based stun in it, while SBs are unable to do it as our stun is in offhand line and 2nd in chain.
6. Our unique advantage (extra hp) is worse than extra 0.3 spec Infiltrators got and more-less equal to unique ability of Nightshades (cold-based insta DD at 20 sec timer). Bear in mind that extra hp value is exactly 5% (any other amount of hp comes from extra con - as SBs may be Norsemen), and 2h weapons ability is not a Shadowblade ability, it is Midgard ability.
7. SBs are unable to spec damage our counterparts in other realms are weak to while they retain this possibility.
8. SB ranged weapons are throwing knives which have range same as NS DD (1200) but less than Albion Xbow (1500), they are costly (0.5g each top tier throwing knife) and their damage is approx. 50% lower than damage from Albion Xbow (cap is 118 while Albion Xbow cap is over 200).
9. SBs got worst buffbots. Base set of buffs is roughly same, set of double buffs is roughly same, but in the realm of special buffs Cleric (67 AF+9 hp regen, 50 Enh spec) > Druid (20% haste+2.2 dps dmg shield, 50 Nurt 20 Nat spec) >> Shaman (2.8 dps damage shield, 48 aug 24 cave spec)

and there's a #10 now.

10. Damage of SB's offhand weapon is based on the left axe spec, thus making low-LA specs less viable then low-CD/DW specs due to increased damage variance.

Lets get this absolutely clear though - lots of people complaining about dragonfang=

- 2 well known SB boardtrolls
- a number of clueless ex shadowzerk players who rolled a tank with stealth and now want revenge

I don't see lots of informed players complaining, just the same old handful of names with repeated postings.

if u add numbers of exc, pryd and vn posters complaining about Dfang, u'll get a really great number. And if u point that all US players sucks and euro perform much better....remember that same sucky americans whined and got LA nerfed...instead of adapting.

You have proof? Hard data?

yes.
give SBs option to spec str/dex based thrust line with long stun based on evade!...and a decent RA would be nice too.

parity cant be achieved unless this is changed.




belth
One thing you SBs are forgetting when comparing LA "nerf" to Dragonfang... Massively overpowered LA affected larger scale fights more than just meaningless 1v1's. Slam and Annihilation are much bigger "issues" than some reactionary stun which only one class can use well.

agree. LA has/had a much larger impact on global scale RvR than Dfang. This means that same global RvR will not suffer much if Dfang gets nerf. Heck, maybe they'll remove Drang and add something instead...say, increase Crossbow damage for Armsmen.

 

[Haldar]

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=57705359&replies=4

dual-wielding halves evade rate of opponent. Poor critblades..

 

[-RG-Jaond]

donttouchpoopy im waiting

Hmm 3min.........

 

[witte-]

QQ

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by Arnor
they arent easier to use/more effective, because you (being the mong you are) are comparing stealth-wars with normal rvr. You cant, its an ENTIRELY different ballgame.

Infils have df, and its way too much compared to hunter/sb/ns/ranger.

Simply, no - very wrong.

When theres a 'stealth only' server your point becomes valid. Until then I play on an RvR server, so I am involved in keep takes, scouting, grouping with non stealthers, grouping with stealthers, soloing etc.

Its realm v realm, so you're talking about realm balance v realm balance, not the solo stealth only world you want to exist in.

(edit - ty for list, now gimme more than 3 mins to look at it! I know - initial comment facetious, but I do have a job and a life to fit in around this game and these boards)

 

[behatch]

Originally posted by Haldar
donttouchpoopy

http://forums.barrysworld.com/showt...rpage=25&highlight=disadvantages&pagenumber=5

here's original one. took me 30 seconds to find it. ever heard of search function on this board?

1. SBs have no str/dex based weapons, thus our weaponskill is lower.
2. SBs have only one damage type (slash) while our counterparts in other realms have access to 2 types (slash and thrust)
3. SB weapons are str based, thus str/con debuff hurts us more than our counterparts in other realms -- as majority of them specced thrust line which is str/dex based.
4. SB set of RAs is worst between all assasins.
5. SB natural enemies may spec thrust line as main weapon and get an evade-based stun in it, while SBs are unable to do it as our stun is in offhand line and 2nd in chain.
6. Our unique advantage (extra hp) is worse than extra 0.3 spec Infiltrators got and more-less equal to unique ability of Nightshades (cold-based insta DD at 20 sec timer). Bear in mind that extra hp value is exactly 5% (any other amount of hp comes from extra con - as SBs may be Norsemen), and 2h weapons ability is not a Shadowblade ability, it is Midgard ability.
7. SBs are unable to spec damage our counterparts in other realms are weak to while they retain this possibility.
8. SB ranged weapons are throwing knives which have range same as NS DD (1200) but less than Albion Xbow (1500), they are costly (0.5g each top tier throwing knife) and their damage is approx. 50% lower than damage from Albion Xbow (cap is 118 while Albion Xbow cap is over 200).
9. SBs got worst buffbots. Base set of buffs is roughly same, set of double buffs is roughly same, but in the realm of special buffs Cleric (67 AF+9 hp regen, 50 Enh spec) > Druid (20% haste+2.2 dps dmg shield, 50 Nurt 20 Nat spec) >> Shaman (2.8 dps damage shield, 48 aug 24 cave spec)

and there's a #10 now.

10. Damage of SB's offhand weapon is based on the left axe spec, thus making low-LA specs less viable then low-CD/DW specs due to increased damage variance.

Lets get this absolutely clear though - lots of people complaining about dragonfang=

- 2 well known SB boardtrolls
- a number of clueless ex shadowzerk players who rolled a tank with stealth and now want revenge

I don't see lots of informed players complaining, just the same old handful of names with repeated postings.

if u add numbers of exc, pryd and vn posters complaining about Dfang, u'll get a really great number. And if u point that all US players sucks and euro perform much better....remember that same sucky americans whined and got LA nerfed...instead of adapting.

You have proof? Hard data?

yes.
give SBs option to spec str/dex based thrust line with long stun based on evade!...and a decent RA would be nice too.

parity cant be achieved unless this is changed.




belth
One thing you SBs are forgetting when comparing LA "nerf" to Dragonfang... Massively overpowered LA affected larger scale fights more than just meaningless 1v1's. Slam and Annihilation are much bigger "issues" than some reactionary stun which only one class can use well.

agree. LA has/had a much larger impact on global scale RvR than Dfang. This means that same global RvR will not suffer much if Dfang gets nerf. Heck, maybe they'll remove Drang and add something instead...say, increase Crossbow damage for Armsmen.

donttouchpoopy = wtfpwnd imo

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by behatch
donttouchpoopy = wtfpwnd imo

Agree

Donttouchpoopy 50min now

what did you say 3min?

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by behatch
donttouchpoopy = wtfpwnd imo

Funny - seems to be the same 3 or 4 SBs that keep saying that.

Oh well - whatever gives you your jollies.

(Said 3 mins cos I was being a smartarse. Busy now - meant to be working!)

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
Funny - seems to be the same 3 or 4 SBs that keep saying that.

Oh well - whatever gives you your jollies.

(Said 3 mins cos I was being a smartarse. Busy now - meant to be working!)

Oki so tomorrow then?