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behatch
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- #421
i seen jaond and nalistah duoing,not zerging,today
i seen jaond and nalistah duoing,not zerging,today
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behatch
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- Thread starter
- #422
adds happens,especially when there realm is looseing
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-RG-Jaond
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- #423
When is duo a zerg? 5 alb stealthers mmg and 5 alb stealthers amg thats a zerg....
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behatch
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- #424
nerf duel shadows
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Arnor
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- Thread starter
- #425
Just one addition puppetmistress, if our offhand hits "all the time" then howcome my main axe is at 90% dur (iirc) while my offhand is still at 100/100%?
It may SWING all the time, but i sincerely doubt it hits much more often then cd/dw
It may SWING all the time, but i sincerely doubt it hits much more often then cd/dw
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Arnor
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- Thread starter
- #426
EVERY class that has evade is capped at 50%
and yes, a fully buffed infil/sb/ns with dodger1 or sumt has cap evade.
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behatch
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- Thread starter
- #427
our off hand dmg is crap anyway 
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knoll
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- Thread starter
- #428
it may swing every time but man i can count on 1 hand the times both axes actually land on that target so swing everytime doesnt mean shit.
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belth
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- #429
Yeah, against a lvl1. Not against any lvl50 with 600+ WS.
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witte-
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- Thread starter
- #430
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BidAccount
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- #431
You checked the numbers lately?
Mid is dominating rvr - and if thats losing then can we have some of it please?
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behatch
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- #432
i dont know what your talking about but i ment,for example
me you fighting amg
another inifl is running to amg from apk,he's not gunna watch he's gunna add same with sb
i think you where talking about in general i was not,but still there allways seems to be more albs apart from during school/usuall working times (8am-4pm)uk
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ztyx
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- Thread starter
- #433
Pls give some hard data logs to claim this. Compare to other servers etc. ...
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BidAccount
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- #434
I meant specifically excalibur in that comment.
Look at top 20 rp earners last week.
Mid dominates.
(Sorry - misundstood your initial comment - I understand now that you mean when you see a realm mate losing you will add, which is fair enough.
My earlier comment to nalistah was the 5 or 6 mid stealthers that seemed grouped attacking solo targets.)
Look at top 20 rp earners last week.
Mid dominates.
(Sorry - misundstood your initial comment - I understand now that you mean when you see a realm mate losing you will add, which is fair enough.
My earlier comment to nalistah was the 5 or 6 mid stealthers that seemed grouped attacking solo targets.)
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behatch
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- #435
BUT if there is an infil on 50%hp and a sb on 50% either infil or sb will proberly attack due to the fact if the sb does start winnning they'll cry because they didnt get rp
main reason adding happens imo is, i r elite and need kill spam
rp slags
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Haldar
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- #436
well.....the piss flows on dead bodies......
donttouchpoopy
1. Infiltrators, whilst having access to str/dex and str based weapons, do not have access to slow weapons in the str/dex line. This places them at a frontloaded damage disadvantage compared to SBs, who also are able to utilise the ‘permahaste’ effect to gain slow weapon speed damage at the same speed as faster thrust weapons. (Disadvantage addressed by introduction of slower weapons in 1.64)
1. fixed in 1.64 - u said urself
2. fastest 16.5 dps Midgard weapon is a 2.9 delay axe, while it is 2.4 in Albion (same 1.64 patch)
2. The thrust line is a poorly constructed one, and selected by infiltrators for two reasons – the level 50 style and use of the infiltrators primary stat towards weponskill.
1. agree. but those 2 reasons would be enough for (almost) any shadowblade to pick this line if we had it. Myself included - even with low spec pts.
2. Any infiltrator specs high in either CS or DW, which means they are getting access to either garrote-AH chain (0.9 avg GR) with PA-CD-SS and hamstring chain (1.29 avg GR) OR Dual Shadows (frontal -- thus almost anitime, 0.87 GR). No one forces them to use thrust styles.
3. Infils armour is crush vuln and thrust resistant. Only 2 midgard classes may spec thrust (and both also get slash in the same spec line), whilst crush remains a very popular midgard choice, and the damage type of preference for Hibernian classes facing Albion. Infiltrators do not have an advantageous armour resistance like SBs or NS.
crush is not a really popular Midgard choice, slash is better bcoz it is strong vs hib support (except bards which slash is weak to) and neutral vs all albs. Crush is weak vs both clerics and hib scale users (tho strong vs bards) -- the only good side that crush has a rear style with snare.
4. Vanish is a bugged, and mostly useless, class specific RA.
Shadowrun is even worse.
Tho i recently understood how it can be used....for quick runs thru MG gates -- to avoid getting trampled by enemy stealthers. Doh!
5 T.o gain an evade based stun Infils must spec in thrust to 50. Thrust has 2 viable styles, 1 evade reactionery and 1 rear positional. SBs gain a 2 stage evade reactionery stun at 39 spec in offhand line – allowing them to select either axe or sword and still gain a relatively easy to use stun for 450 spec points less.
1. Axe or sword is both slash damage....theres' not much difference between them barring styles.
2. our stun is in offhand line of damage, which makes it a must-have to spec 39 in it. And how many infis spec at least 39 DW?
3. FG stun is not a 'relatively easy' thing...it is approx 2.5x-2.8x harder to land than Dragonfang. 2x bcoz it is 2nd in chain, and 0.5-0.8 due to the facts that
a) Dfang has HIGH bonus to hit while both Comeback and Frosty Gaze are MEDIUM.
b) Dfang is achieved at 50 wpn spec thus making it easier to land due to higher WS
6. The 0.3 extra spec points is mostly eaten up by needing to spec 50 thrust for an evade based stun – this leaves 350 spec points to create the balanced spec intended by mythics allocation of these additional points. Norse SBs (current race of choice since evade cap) have 150-200 more HPs, plus access to 2H weapons – whilst opinion on these varies, CS spec’d SBs do favour these.
plz explain urself...didnt understand
7. DW is far less reliable than LA. Whilst tests have shown for equal spec the damage over time is comparablet, DW is unreliable in a sustained fight. A SB will land all poisons faster than an Infil, thus gaining an advantage, whilst the infils percentage chance to swing places them at the vaguaries of the random number generator – sometimes this will favour them, sometimes it will not fire for a whole fight.
agree. but see my #10.
10. Damage of SB's offhand weapon is based on the left axe spec, thus making low-LA specs less viable then low-CD/DW specs due to increased damage variance.
i think that this two 'features' balance themselves.
So - you have dozens, nay hundreads, of logs to back that up then?
Just look the archive of Midgard Rogue Boards at VN....i have seen several hunderd Kb of logs there....
Puppetmistress
I dont really understand the 'thus' if you include races into the equation as well as buffbot. How big is this weaponskill-difference in practice for a norse SB versus an Alb Thrust infil Briton?
at 50 lvl.
creation bonuses not included
Norse SB dmg-defining stat: 70+15=85
Briton thrust infi dmg-defining stat: ((60+45)+(60+15))/2=90.
Even worst (racial-wise) thrust infi has an advantage here. And remember, SBs may be kobbies too (see creation screen...)
Thats no disadvantage on itselves, it becomes an disadvantage after str/con debuffs or armour-weakness. Dont include it double.
wrong.
Slash infis generally attack set of targets #1
Thrust infis generally attack set of targets #2
as a slash user, i am forced to go for set of targets #3.
i want to have an option to attack various targets too!
Yes, however your offhand swings all the time which is easier for an extra set of poison to land
i am talking about our stun here, which is hard to achieve, and not about LA/DW mechanics.
Matter of opinion and semantics. All of a sudden you exclude race into the equation, but you include armourtables. What exactly IS the hp-difference when you choose a Norse SB over a Lurikeen NS ? It's not 5% for sure then anymore.
This has nothing to do with the Shadowblade but with Midgard Realm. According to your own reasoning in point #6 where you make 2H a Midgard-ability.
1. a difference between Norse and Luri is approx 12%, betweeb Kobbie and Luri is 7.5%...assuming same buffs-RAs-gear ofc. This will be corrected by introducing Shar NSs in ToA, which are rumored to have 70 con.
2. ok.
Cleric BB > Druid BB >> Shaman BB + 2h ability
clear now ?
ROTFL. Sorry, this is so 'looking for downsides'. Might as well add as downside that Norseman are uglier then Britons. I mean, X-Bows? Throwing Knifes?! The damage it does is ridicilious, both. Whining about the costs made me even smile more. ROTFL
formally speaking, it IS a disadvantage, tho a really minor one. So keep ur comments to urself plz if u have nothing else to say. See my resume below.
Correct, however, think back to the bold quote #3 and notice how you're RESISTANT to most infiltrators and nightshades. I mean: You say most spec thrust/pierce. You happen to be resistant to this.
yes. but there is a question of option and choice. We do not have one, unlike infis and NSs, and this is wrong.
Yes, but your chance to swing offhand is still 100% even with 1 in LA. The penalty in CD/DW is that your offhand doesnt swing every time. Also creating lower haste dps profit because if offhand doesnt swing you dont benefit from haste-effect.
Quoting myself.
"agree. but see my #10.
10. Damage of SB's offhand weapon is based on the left axe spec, thus making low-LA specs less viable then low-CD/DW specs due to increased damage variance.
i think that this two 'features' balance themselves."
RESUME.
i beleive that a huge part of SB drawbacks can be solved by the following steps
1. Give SBs str/dex based thrust line with 7+ sec stun off evade in it.
2. Give SBs a good (set of) RA(s)
jua-
Garrote achil are crappy to hit styles
Dont forget the 50 dw style has really good to hit bonus
/sigh
RTFM
http://www.camelotherald.com/styles/style.php?s=129&line=77
Name: Dual Shadows
Level: 50
Prerequisite: In front of target
Attack: Medium Bonus
Defense: Medium Penalty
Fatigue Cost: Medium
Damage: Medium
Effect: Bleeding
http://www.camelotherald.com/styles/style.php?s=8&line=118
Name: Garrote
Level: 18
Prerequisite: None
Attack: Medium Bonus
Defense: Medium Penalty
Fatigue Cost: High
Damage: High
Effect: Hindered
Reduces the target's movement speed.
Value: 100%
Duration: 12 seconds
http://www.camelotherald.com/styles/style.php?s=10&line=118
Name: Achilles' Heel
Level: 25
Prerequisite: Garrote
Attack: Medium Bonus
Defense: None
Fatigue Cost: Medium
Damage: High
Effect: Slowed
Decreases the target's combat speed.
Duration: 20 seconds
donttouchpoopy
1. Infiltrators, whilst having access to str/dex and str based weapons, do not have access to slow weapons in the str/dex line. This places them at a frontloaded damage disadvantage compared to SBs, who also are able to utilise the ‘permahaste’ effect to gain slow weapon speed damage at the same speed as faster thrust weapons. (Disadvantage addressed by introduction of slower weapons in 1.64)
1. fixed in 1.64 - u said urself
2. fastest 16.5 dps Midgard weapon is a 2.9 delay axe, while it is 2.4 in Albion (same 1.64 patch)
2. The thrust line is a poorly constructed one, and selected by infiltrators for two reasons – the level 50 style and use of the infiltrators primary stat towards weponskill.
1. agree. but those 2 reasons would be enough for (almost) any shadowblade to pick this line if we had it. Myself included - even with low spec pts.
2. Any infiltrator specs high in either CS or DW, which means they are getting access to either garrote-AH chain (0.9 avg GR) with PA-CD-SS and hamstring chain (1.29 avg GR) OR Dual Shadows (frontal -- thus almost anitime, 0.87 GR). No one forces them to use thrust styles.
3. Infils armour is crush vuln and thrust resistant. Only 2 midgard classes may spec thrust (and both also get slash in the same spec line), whilst crush remains a very popular midgard choice, and the damage type of preference for Hibernian classes facing Albion. Infiltrators do not have an advantageous armour resistance like SBs or NS.
crush is not a really popular Midgard choice, slash is better bcoz it is strong vs hib support (except bards which slash is weak to) and neutral vs all albs. Crush is weak vs both clerics and hib scale users (tho strong vs bards) -- the only good side that crush has a rear style with snare.
4. Vanish is a bugged, and mostly useless, class specific RA.
Shadowrun is even worse.
Tho i recently understood how it can be used....for quick runs thru MG gates -- to avoid getting trampled by enemy stealthers. Doh!
5 T.o gain an evade based stun Infils must spec in thrust to 50. Thrust has 2 viable styles, 1 evade reactionery and 1 rear positional. SBs gain a 2 stage evade reactionery stun at 39 spec in offhand line – allowing them to select either axe or sword and still gain a relatively easy to use stun for 450 spec points less.
1. Axe or sword is both slash damage....theres' not much difference between them barring styles.
2. our stun is in offhand line of damage, which makes it a must-have to spec 39 in it. And how many infis spec at least 39 DW?
3. FG stun is not a 'relatively easy' thing...it is approx 2.5x-2.8x harder to land than Dragonfang. 2x bcoz it is 2nd in chain, and 0.5-0.8 due to the facts that
a) Dfang has HIGH bonus to hit while both Comeback and Frosty Gaze are MEDIUM.
b) Dfang is achieved at 50 wpn spec thus making it easier to land due to higher WS
6. The 0.3 extra spec points is mostly eaten up by needing to spec 50 thrust for an evade based stun – this leaves 350 spec points to create the balanced spec intended by mythics allocation of these additional points. Norse SBs (current race of choice since evade cap) have 150-200 more HPs, plus access to 2H weapons – whilst opinion on these varies, CS spec’d SBs do favour these.
plz explain urself...didnt understand
7. DW is far less reliable than LA. Whilst tests have shown for equal spec the damage over time is comparablet, DW is unreliable in a sustained fight. A SB will land all poisons faster than an Infil, thus gaining an advantage, whilst the infils percentage chance to swing places them at the vaguaries of the random number generator – sometimes this will favour them, sometimes it will not fire for a whole fight.
agree. but see my #10.
10. Damage of SB's offhand weapon is based on the left axe spec, thus making low-LA specs less viable then low-CD/DW specs due to increased damage variance.
i think that this two 'features' balance themselves.
So - you have dozens, nay hundreads, of logs to back that up then?
Just look the archive of Midgard Rogue Boards at VN....i have seen several hunderd Kb of logs there....
Puppetmistress
I dont really understand the 'thus' if you include races into the equation as well as buffbot. How big is this weaponskill-difference in practice for a norse SB versus an Alb Thrust infil Briton?
at 50 lvl.
creation bonuses not included
Norse SB dmg-defining stat: 70+15=85
Briton thrust infi dmg-defining stat: ((60+45)+(60+15))/2=90.
Even worst (racial-wise) thrust infi has an advantage here. And remember, SBs may be kobbies too (see creation screen...)
Thats no disadvantage on itselves, it becomes an disadvantage after str/con debuffs or armour-weakness. Dont include it double.
wrong.
Slash infis generally attack set of targets #1
Thrust infis generally attack set of targets #2
as a slash user, i am forced to go for set of targets #3.
i want to have an option to attack various targets too!
Yes, however your offhand swings all the time which is easier for an extra set of poison to land
i am talking about our stun here, which is hard to achieve, and not about LA/DW mechanics.
Matter of opinion and semantics. All of a sudden you exclude race into the equation, but you include armourtables. What exactly IS the hp-difference when you choose a Norse SB over a Lurikeen NS ? It's not 5% for sure then anymore.
This has nothing to do with the Shadowblade but with Midgard Realm. According to your own reasoning in point #6 where you make 2H a Midgard-ability.
1. a difference between Norse and Luri is approx 12%, betweeb Kobbie and Luri is 7.5%...assuming same buffs-RAs-gear ofc. This will be corrected by introducing Shar NSs in ToA, which are rumored to have 70 con.
2. ok.
Cleric BB > Druid BB >> Shaman BB + 2h ability
clear now ?
ROTFL. Sorry, this is so 'looking for downsides'. Might as well add as downside that Norseman are uglier then Britons. I mean, X-Bows? Throwing Knifes?! The damage it does is ridicilious, both. Whining about the costs made me even smile more. ROTFL
formally speaking, it IS a disadvantage, tho a really minor one. So keep ur comments to urself plz if u have nothing else to say. See my resume below.
Correct, however, think back to the bold quote #3 and notice how you're RESISTANT to most infiltrators and nightshades. I mean: You say most spec thrust/pierce. You happen to be resistant to this.
yes. but there is a question of option and choice. We do not have one, unlike infis and NSs, and this is wrong.
Yes, but your chance to swing offhand is still 100% even with 1 in LA. The penalty in CD/DW is that your offhand doesnt swing every time. Also creating lower haste dps profit because if offhand doesnt swing you dont benefit from haste-effect.
Quoting myself.
"agree. but see my #10.
10. Damage of SB's offhand weapon is based on the left axe spec, thus making low-LA specs less viable then low-CD/DW specs due to increased damage variance.
i think that this two 'features' balance themselves."
RESUME.
i beleive that a huge part of SB drawbacks can be solved by the following steps
1. Give SBs str/dex based thrust line with 7+ sec stun off evade in it.
2. Give SBs a good (set of) RA(s)
jua-
Garrote achil are crappy to hit styles
Dont forget the 50 dw style has really good to hit bonus
/sigh
RTFM
http://www.camelotherald.com/styles/style.php?s=129&line=77
Name: Dual Shadows
Level: 50
Prerequisite: In front of target
Attack: Medium Bonus
Defense: Medium Penalty
Fatigue Cost: Medium
Damage: Medium
Effect: Bleeding
http://www.camelotherald.com/styles/style.php?s=8&line=118
Name: Garrote
Level: 18
Prerequisite: None
Attack: Medium Bonus
Defense: Medium Penalty
Fatigue Cost: High
Damage: High
Effect: Hindered
Reduces the target's movement speed.
Value: 100%
Duration: 12 seconds
http://www.camelotherald.com/styles/style.php?s=10&line=118
Name: Achilles' Heel
Level: 25
Prerequisite: Garrote
Attack: Medium Bonus
Defense: None
Fatigue Cost: Medium
Damage: High
Effect: Slowed
Decreases the target's combat speed.
Duration: 20 seconds
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BidAccount
Guest
- Thread starter
- #437
Haldar - your points are valid. My list was not exhaustive, but mainly for Jaond who seemed to believe the infiltrator was some form of 'godly' class with no weaknesses. Its intent was to point ou that infiltrators, as with all classes, have downsides and weaknesses. These are inherrant in the class design and intentional - it doesn't make the infiltrator a weak class.
I agree that in reviewing the SB one thing needs to happen as a priority - the replacement of either sword or axe with a pierce/thrust line that is str/dex based.
This then gives the SB the same choices as NS/Infils.
Oh and shadowrun - yes it is pointless (along with many othe RAs - siege bolt anyone?).
I agree that in reviewing the SB one thing needs to happen as a priority - the replacement of either sword or axe with a pierce/thrust line that is str/dex based.
This then gives the SB the same choices as NS/Infils.
Oh and shadowrun - yes it is pointless (along with many othe RAs - siege bolt anyone?).
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Puppetmistress
Guest
- Thread starter
- #438
I said swing in the first posting I did.
Also that will mean it will LAND more often then with CD/DW. In absolute terms that is
Zerkers hitted my theurgist more often with offhand then on mainhand. Standard scenario:
a) Mainhand miss. Bladeturn
b) Offhand hit. 135 dmg
c) Mainhand hit. 1000 damage!
d) Offhand hit. 180 dmg.
Type /release.
If you would have hitted me more often your offhand would go down more in cond.
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Arnor
Guest
- Thread starter
- #439
Originally posted by Puppetmistress
I said swing in the first posting I did.
Also that will mean it will LAND more often then with CD/DW. In absolute terms that is
Zerkers hitted my theurgist more often with offhand then on mainhand. Standard scenario:
a) Mainhand miss. Bladeturn
b) Offhand hit. 135 dmg
c) Mainhand hit. 1000 damage!
d) Offhand hit. 180 dmg.
Type /release.
If you would have hitted me more often your offhand would go down more in cond.
but, ill tell you what ill do. as soon as my offhand looses durability, we can calculate the average % of "hits" relative to the mainhand yes?
then we can compare this to some merc/infil/bm/ranger/ns, and then we will see exACTLY how much more/less la offhand hits then cd/dw
K
knoll
Guest
- Thread starter
- #440
landed on theurgist yes but on infil with evade 7 and debuffed WS ??
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BidAccount
Guest
- Thread starter
- #441
You do realise that even with 50 spec in DW and 3 levels or DR that the offhand in DW will only swing 80% of the time?
So compare:
LA 100% swing chance
DW 80% swing chance
Then move to hit rate.
So compare:
LA 100% swing chance
DW 80% swing chance
Then move to hit rate.
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behatch
Guest
- Thread starter
- #442
nice1 ! which class has siege bolt ra?
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BidAccount
Guest
- Thread starter
- #443
That'd be the theurgist.
You know - theurgist? That rare, mythical class rumoured to exist in albion - I understand they have this ability called 'pulsing blade turn'. Dunno what that is though.
(Point is, some classes have even more useless RAs than shadowrun - hard to believe mythic spent time and energy creating so many crap RAs)
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behatch
Guest
- Thread starter
- #444
looool,theurgs are kewl
ye,there either shit(shadowrun) or bloody anoying(refering to sos
)vanish isnt op and isnt shit,its balanced ^^
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BidAccount
Guest
- Thread starter
- #445
Originally posted by behatch
looool,theurgs are kewl
ye,there either shit(shadowrun) or bloody anoying(refering to sos
vanish isnt op and isnt shit,its balanced ^^
Would be if the bloody thing worked properly.
A
Arnor
Guest
- Thread starter
- #446
nah, if it worked properly it would be overpowering, but on the other hand, cs-specced infs might become fotm again
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belth
Guest
- Thread starter
- #447
Originally posted by Arnor
cs-specced infs might become fotm again
Right after PA & co ignored AF maybe... Yay, 10 points to be able to do ~300 damage with a follow-up or two for anytime damage.
H
Haldar
Guest
- Thread starter
- #448
donttouchpoopy
a log, for ur pleasure.
http://132.38.190.6/overpowered.jpg
this is infi against NS.
im happy if my main breaks 180 dmg and offhand breaks 45. if those numbers are typical for infi....it is scary.
a log, for ur pleasure.
http://132.38.190.6/overpowered.jpg
this is infi against NS.
im happy if my main breaks 180 dmg and offhand breaks 45. if those numbers are typical for infi....it is scary.
Z
ztyx
Guest
- Thread starter
- #449
Also note that
1. SBs attack speed is significant slower than both Infils and NS. So the damage over time is even more scary.
2. We have +10% dmg thx to relics.
X
Xandax
Guest
- Thread starter
- #450
But both weapons in DW hits for full.
Even main hand on LA users doens't hit for full, and let alone off hand.