Hibernia Fix discussion

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by old.m0000
the point, spamrider, was that you only need 3 base classes in each grp for group essentials - infact you get more "essentials" with that setup than most alb / mid groups are ever likely to have. For example:
hib tank grp:
Bard, Warden, Druid (mainly buff), Druid (mainly heal), blademaster, blademaster, blademaster, hero

thats 4 damage dealing tanks, end regen, 6 sec pbt, full resist buffs, speed5, primary cc, heals, buffs

compared with mid tank grp (ok yes savages are uber ATM but we both know this..)
Aug shammy, Healer (mainly pac), Healer (mainly mend), skald, savage, savage, savage, warrior

thats 4 (+skald) damage dealers, end regen, 1/2 resist buffs, speed 5, primary cc, heals, buffs. So less "essentials" than the hib grp, no pbt whatsoever because it's on a caster so no one is gonna look at it in dark age of tankalot

alb tank grp:
Cleric (mainly enc), Cleric (mainly rejuv), Sorc, Minstrel, Pally, merc, merc/reaver, merc/armsman

thats 3 damage dealing tanks (+pally +minstrel), possibly only 2 have any det/pf, end regen, 1/4 resist buffs, speed5, primary cc, heals, buffs - no pbt (because on caster), only group that MUST have a cloth caster int it (useually first one to go every fight), no insta cc, ablative chant (which is shit against assisting tank grps)


Assuming savages get nerfed down to reasonable standards (they will), the obvious group that is better on paper is the hib group - it has everything, including lovely 6 sec pbt on class that wears chain and can heal and buff (insta 6 sec pbt no less)
the mid group is next best off, mainly because of "always on" end regen that does not drain power like the paladin, and does not need to be "cast" in a fight, like the bard - and having a CC class also have instas, buffs, stun, insta stun, insta ae stun etc etc
Albion group is far at the bottom because of the lack of damage classes and the relliance on a caster for CC



may have missed some stuff, but theres basicly how i see it, may edit when i get home

yeah, let's forget that shammie has disease and ae-root cuz that sucks as, right? let's forget that sorc has ae-root as backup CC, cuz that sucks as aswell, right? let's forget that both mids and albs will have mr4+ wich means their healers will have more mana? and, yeah, PBT is so frigging uber since none assists etc.

and yeah, let's forget that you only need to take down a few hib classes to totally cripple the group, when the alb groups ain't crippled untill it's more or less wiped.

since I am pretty sure the hero in the hib group is defensive, he isn't a dmg dealer. lets say the pally is defensive. and let's say that the warden is offensive. yeah, 3 merc + mincer must deal lots less dmg then 3BMs+warden.

the only real edge I see hib has is PBT and higher resists. PBT is neglectible and resists ain't uber vs tank groups. pretty much only need resists for CC.

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by old.m0000
are you forgeting friar?

oh and to get PBT like the hib grp, mid needs a runey and alb needs yet another class, therg
(and they'll never get 6 sec pbt)

so its actually what hib gets in 3 classes takes 6 in alb, 4 in mid

PBT is useless. Friar is not that good. sure, nice dmg, but 2h and not DW. and how much do you need cold, matter and heat when you don't meet many mages?

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by schinkaar
Since many hib grp have a fair share of chanters they are usually the first target, not the bard.

1) how many chanters in the hib group m00 described?

2) dark age of tankalot

 

[infozwerg]

Originally posted by StormriderX
Perfect hib group (imo) has no room for warden so they won't actually have pbt or warden resists.

well id rather kick one of the bms in your groupsetup for warden. i dont like leaving my support with only 26% resist + aom against all mid and alb cc. but then im a bit biased on warden issues.

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by infozwerg
well id rather kick one of the bms in your groupsetup for warden. i dont like leaving my support with only 26% resist + aom against all mid and alb cc. but then im a bit biased on warden issues.

taking in a class for resists are just gay. and friars should change thier resists with clerics imo

 

[infozwerg]

nah switch druid and warden resists

 

[old.Nol]

Moo, Bard is the key player in any hib group, CC, Endurance, heals and interrupt on your healers. If I make it through the first 8 seconds of the fight, then 95% of the time we will win, it takes 8 seconds to get mezz off and change to end pulse. By killing that one char, you seriously hamstring hib groups, based on your comments you have to kill 3 albs to have the same success.

Yeah it might be harder to balance alb groups, but when it's done, that group is wickedly tough to kill. The days of random groups being successful in RvR have long since past.

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Originally posted by Amadon
er
tank groups rely on end regen, bard is first target 99% of the time and VERY easily identifiable, bard dies very quickly, hibs out of end, game over
alb sorc mez's, does his job and dies, alb pala has uninterruptable end regen going throughout the fight and can be right up there with offensive tanks, providing defense for them as well as end regen
pbt is next to useless against mercs, savages or assisting tanks so that argument goes out the window
albs have far better tools for mitigating melee damage than hibs do

the balance is far more complex than the issues you cover

Lol.. love the part about sorc mez, does his job and dies.
So were is it different from bard? Except sorc dies faster, and has no instants.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Lol.. love the part about sorc mez, does his job and dies.
So were is it different from bard? Except sorc dies faster, and has no instants.
Regards, Glottis

albs still have end after sorc dies, hibs don't after bard dies

 

[old.Nol]

don't make me pull the glottis postcard out.

 

[StormriderX]

Kill bard = hib group loses end/cc/base buffs/crappy heals

Think how many alb classes you need to kill to eliminate that from their group. t.t

 

[Vasconcelos]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ab-fluid
poor bastards that still think alb r bottom of the pile t.t. Dark age of tankalot atm, hib has worst tank grp = hib = worst grps atm, think you made an incredily biased 1 sided post m00, maybe take some tips from FC how to play?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bard
Druid
Druid
Druid
3 Blademasters
1 hero



4 naturalists and 4 guardians

Sounds at least even with the alb tank fg (even better as u dont have caster n rogue)

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by Vasconcelos
Sounds at least even with the alb tank fg (even better as u dont have caster n rogue)

end regen's on the weakest and most easy to spot class in the group, and usually the one leading who also has to worry about crowd control at the start of the fight at the very least before even starting end regen which can be interrupted etc etc etc..

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by infozwerg
nah switch druid and warden resists

yeah, thought about that after the post. dunno wich one who has it on mid, but...

if it's shamans, the ones to have the unatural resists are those who have specc buffs

and

if it's on healer, the ones to have the unnatural resists are those who are primarly healer of the realm.

so, imo druids should swop resists with warden so we can dump all the wardens in Gulag or something where they might be of some use

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Lol.. love the part about sorc mez, does his job and dies.
So were is it different from bard? Except sorc dies faster, and has no instants.
Regards, Glottis

it's different from the bard in the way that the utility of the bard is so much higher and it's the key to vicory to keep bard alive and free from interupts.

if an alb group loses sorc early or if he is interupded for the rest of the fight after he have got a chance to mezz, the alb group still has a very good chance to win.

 

[censi]

aye team, put end reg on rangers!

 

[infozwerg]

Moo, Bard is the key player in any hib group, CC, Endurance, heals and interrupt on your healers.

you are taking yourself to seriously.

we usually ignore bards and go for casters then druids unless we land initial mezz. useless to kill the bard after he used insta-aemezz, we are all ccimmune anyways and endregen wont save your casters or druids from pf.

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by infozwerg
you are taking yourself to seriously.

we usually ignore bards and go for casters then druids unless we land initial mezz. useless to kill the bard after he used insta-aemezz, we are all ccimmune anyways and endregen wont save your casters or druids from pf.

in heavy caster groups bard isn't the key target, but then again we was mainly talking melee groups.

 

[old.Zarko]

Originally posted by infozwerg
well id rather kick one of the bms in your groupsetup for warden. i dont like leaving my support with only 26% resist + aom against all mid and alb cc. but then im a bit biased on warden issues.

then you aint got enough firepower. Your group will never ever be able to take down a mid group with 3 healers and 1 shammy.

 

[old.Zarko]

Originally posted by infozwerg
you are taking yourself to seriously.

we usually ignore bards and go for casters then druids unless we land initial mezz. useless to kill the bard after he used insta-aemezz, we are all ccimmune anyways and endregen wont save your casters or druids from pf.

Probably why you loose 95% of all fights to hib groups and why you think we don't need a few fixes.

Advice for slan rvr: You might be the one doing something wrong

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by infozwerg
you are taking yourself to seriously.

we usually ignore bards and go for casters then druids unless we land initial mezz. useless to kill the bard after he used insta-aemezz, we are all ccimmune anyways and endregen wont save your casters or druids from pf.

No it won't, but it will make sure that our slammer can do his job, something you obviously need not worry about if you have an end buff. It's actually a sign of how overpowered your groups are, that you can just gloss over such a vital role.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by StormriderX
Kill bard = hib group loses end/cc/base buffs/crappy heals

Think how many alb classes you need to kill to eliminate that from their group. t.t

Use end-potions. Ask your friendly Alchemist neighbour to make you some.

I use mana-potions all the time with my druid.

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Use end-potions. Ask your friendly Alchemist neighbour to make you some.

I use mana-potions all the time with my druid.

How many consecutive mana potions do you use in a single fight?

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by old.Nol
How many consecutive mana potions do you use in a single fight?

Depends abit. If I think I need alot of mana I use mana-potion, then MCL and perhaps after that another mana-potion. Then I use 2 bottles in that fight. Sometimes 1 and often 0.


I use the level 40 potions and there's also a level 40 Self-endurance regen 4 potion (which lasts 2 minute). Costprice 2g75s to make.

It's up to you if you think it's worth to pay gold to win.

Anyhow you can 'whine' about all the things the enemy has and we don't but it wont help much. Find ways around it is much better and worthwhile.

I also look after my bard as a druid. I use a quick root (single target, baseline) to make that tank stop hitting my bard. The amount of times a Hib-group roots my friar is very low while every druid has root. In a good group there's also a druid with AoE-root (insta) which can put a good halt to that /assist tank-train of the enemy. 10 minute timer so quite often it is up.
Hibs got disease on a viable character in fg RvR, also a good way to snare the tank train. Warden has TWF which is very good useable to kite enemy tanks through.

It is really not that bad with Hibernia imo. Lots of 'old skool Hibs' haven't played something else in a long-time and keep only seeing the negative stuff. Hib is still a great realm and can be competative just as good as Albion.

Only 'problem' Hibernia has is that by tradition Hibs rely on magic more then for instance Midgard and magic has been nerfed alot. But Hibernia has also good tank-classes.


And:
Advanced Evade won't make a difference for a bard, wow he will perhaps evade 1 swing with 3 tanks beating on him. If you wanna improve the bard you need to ask for something which will help, not something like Advanced Evade. Won't do shit and you will not get better with it but only give Mythic a reason to say 'No more love for the Bard, we already gave it Advanced Evade'

 

[StormriderX]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Use end-potions. Ask your friendly Alchemist neighbour to make you some.

I use mana-potions all the time with my druid.

I have a supply of end totems on me at all times =)

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by StormriderX
I have a supply of end totems on me at all times =)

So stop whining about endurance then

You cannot buy insta-CC in a bottle, you can with endurance. Ergo Hibs are better and shuold stop whining hehehe

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by StormriderX
I have a supply of end totems on me at all times =)

end heal is shite - end regen potions 4 teh win =D

 

[StormriderX]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
So stop whining about endurance then

You cannot buy insta-CC in a bottle, you can with endurance. Ergo Hibs are better and shuold stop whining hehehe

Actually the post you quoted mentioned what a hib group loses once bard dies.

As for CC bard has 1 form of cc - Mezz (insta is on same immunity timer)

Which is incredibly fucking weak for the primary cc class of the realm - and no lull does not count in any way.

Best part is how mythic tards said they will not consider giving any form of secondary cc to bards in the 1.62 tl report feedback.

They also have no access to moc + no qc so if insta is down and they are under attack there is 0 way they will fire off a mezz.

As for end - you are correct that you can buy end in a bottle but
a) end 3/4 isnt as good as end 5
b) potions have reuse timers

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
...etc...

I can't be asked to debate, you should read your posts and think about it.

 

[infozwerg]

Originally posted by old.Nol
How many consecutive mana potions do you use in a single fight?

my personal max was 12 potions in one fight.