"Gimpes"

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Fagane

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Originally posted by Pin
what a load of tripe.

Firstly, why are you stuck in the mindset that s/s = stand at back only?

You don't need to carry a 2h weapon to move at the front to provide end. and you can pop bubbles and slam for the real damage dealers.


Secondly, no you do not have better damage output than all other hybrids. My Reaver does 2x the damage at 3x the speed of a 2h Paladin.


Thirdly, slam-bot? Whoever 'plays' their character so inadequately to be described as a 'bot' should be slapped. A Paladin has SOOO many jobs to do in a proper group.
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1) Agre partly, this was a discusion about the roles of a S&S pallie that protects the cleric and a 2H pallie that assists the main tank. But besides that point you are right.

2) Also true, but a pallie has a better dammage output then most frairs, infiltrators and scouts & S&S pallies.

3) Also true, if you do not get mezzed so early in the fight, that you become obsolete and did give nothing to a group, where a cleric/frair/wizzie/theurg did give buffs even when mezzed. Chants do not work when mezzed......

Fagane
 
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gunner440

Guest
Originally posted by seeaira
Bone Bruiser. my cap here is 503 and ofc I don't get cap, but being buffed I get damn close.. anywhere from 300 to 466
Doubler my cap here is 560.. in rvr buffed.. 400 to 520
Double back .. cap 520 ... I do about 440ish
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o_O those are higher than mine
 
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Puppetmistress

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Originally posted by Pin
what a load of tripe.

Firstly, why are you stuck in the mindset that s/s = stand at back only?

You don't need to carry a 2h weapon to move at the front to provide end. and you can pop bubbles and slam for the real damage dealers.[/b
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Yeah you could do that too.. But you are not guarding at that time. You cannot guard and fight because you're too far from the person you're guarding and thus won't block crap.

Guarding is 'standing at the back' close to your support. When I got a guarder on my druid he's often purely standing at me slamming/annihilating everyone coming too damn close to me. Surely if all goes right he can help the tanks to finish up the scraps but the fight is already won then.

A guarder who fights side-to-side with his tank-comrads is useless. He won't block a single-hit for you if he's in the assist-team. Unless he's close to you, but the one you're guarding is often cleric/caster and they cannot move with you (moving = no casting).

Or am I so wrong here?
 
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Pin

Guest
Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Yeah you could do that too.. But you are not guarding at that time. You cannot guard and fight because you're too far from the person you're guarding and thus won't block crap.

Guarding is 'standing at the back' close to your support. When I got a guarder on my druid he's often purely standing at me slamming/annihilating everyone coming too damn close to me. Surely if all goes right he can help the tanks to finish up the scraps but the fight is already won then.

A guarder who fights side-to-side with his tank-comrads is useless. He won't block a single-hit for you if he's in the assist-team. Unless he's close to you, but the one you're guarding is often cleric/caster and they cannot move with you (moving = no casting).

Or am I so wrong here?
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Switch guard when you move with the tanks. Put it on another tank. Now he won't get slammed by that hero.


Besides, if it's going to be a tough fight, the Alb group will fire up SoS so the support can get themselves out of harm's way and the enemy tanks don't need to be slammed for that time. Assist your own tanks with slam+end+etc. Then when SoS starts blinking, get back to your support for guard.
 
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Aussie-

Guest
Originally posted by Fagane
2) Also true, but a pallie has a better dammage output then most frairs, infiltrators and scouts & S&S pallies.
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k
 
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Puppetmistress

Guest
Originally posted by Pin
Switch guard when you move with the tanks. Put it on another tank. Now he won't get slammed by that hero.[/b
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That's not a solution, that's a band-aid. Your support you where SUPPOSED to guard is left unguarded now. You can ofcourse guard a tank now, but it won't help your support at all. Congratulations, you just lost your first cleric but hey.. you kept that tank his Purge up, because you blocked the slam on him ~rollseyes~

If you're S/S and your job is to guard a cleric that involves standing in the back. As soon as you go fighting with the big-boys your support is left unguarded. I don't give a fuck if my assigned guard is blocking slam for an offensive tank. Your job was to guard the support, you failed. You cannot rush back to your support and switch guard as soon as it is under attack, then it is often too late and it gotten slammed/stunned/killed already.

Either you guard support or you don't. There's no way you can guard support AND fight. That just don't work.


Besides, if it's going to be a tough fight, the Alb group will fire up SoS so the support can get themselves out of harm's way and the enemy tanks don't need to be slammed for that time. Assist your own tanks with slam+end+etc. Then when SoS starts blinking, get back to your support for guard.
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RA's change so much in a fight, then everything changes ofcourse ;)
 
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gunner440

Guest
here they are:

--------------------------------------------------------------
WITH QUICKNESS

Strength: 200
Constitution: 196
Dexterity: 162
Quickness: 125

Two Handed: 50 + 20
Slash: 44 + 20

Arcanium Great Scimitar 100% Quality

Unstyled: 375
Doubler: 561
Double Back: 553
Onslaught: 634
Bone Bruiser: 491

Arcanium Bastard Sword 99% Quality

Unstyled: 212
Amethyst Slash: 340
Enrage: 346
Back Slash: 401

--------------------------------------------------------------
WITHOUT QUICKNESS

Strength: 200
Constitution: 196
Dexterity: 162
Quickness: 50

Two Handed: 50 + 20
Slash: 44 + 20

Arcanium Great Scimitar 100% Quality

Unstyled: 375
Doubler: 594
Double Back: 584
Onslaught: 679
Bone Bruiser: 511

Arcanium Great Axe 99% Quality

Unstyled: 399
Doubler: 634
Double Back: 623
Onslaught: 726
Bone Bruiser: 545

Arcanium Bastard Sword 99% Quality

Unstyled: 212
Amethyst Slash: 362
Enrage: 369
Back Slash: 433

Great Axe: 5.1spd
Great Scimitar: 4.8spd
Bastard Sword: 4.1spd
 
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gunner440

Guest
Originally posted by Vireb
so much for bad damage
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weaponskill affects dmg in rvr also

higher ur weaponskill means ull be closer to ur cap on that particular style of c mixed with the formula of enemy player con etc.

i seriously doubt those 500+ hits unless they were not lvl 50
 
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Vireb

Guest
yep but point is people saying 2h pallys hit for crap is bs, i mean ok so your caps are higher gimme 2 secs and ill post vireks (rr2 50 2h spec armsman caps and tbh the difference is negligable) ok so yes she does not get tank ra's that is the big difference but it is still a very valid class to play and people callin gimp etc your dmg is crap really need to look at the facts and maybe even play one.
 
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Chuffy

Guest
Gun im sorry you cant have Guild groups anymore.
2h pallys are obviously better than you.

But if you reroll your avalonian crush/shield merc you can re-join.
 
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Jiggs

Guest
Originally posted by Fagane

2) Also true, but a pallie has a better dammage output then most frairs, infiltrators and scouts & S&S pallies.
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nope my friar's caps are higher than the ones seeira has quoted

friar anytime: 632

Banish: 699

thats with max quickness on equipment
 
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Pin

Guest
Originally posted by Vireb
yep but point is people saying 2h pallys hit for crap is bs, i mean ok so your caps are higher gimme 2 secs and ill post vireks (rr2 50 2h spec armsman caps and tbh the difference is negligable) ok so yes she does not get tank ra's that is the big difference but it is still a very valid class to play and people callin gimp etc your dmg is crap really need to look at the facts and maybe even play one.
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High damage cap is not the same as high damage. Of course you won't see any difference between the caps of equally-specced Armsmen/Paladins, the difference is in the weaponskill.

Comparisons of damage are only valid if you are hitting a 'hard' target - one that you won't cap on.
 
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Fagane

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replay for Jiggs:

This is getting intresting, I would like to see more "stats" on dammage caps, and in test fights about dammage output of a friar, palladin 2h and armsman 2h.

Fagane
 
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Flimgoblin

Guest
cap is entirely based on:

weapon speed
weapon dps
quickness
style growth rate
 
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Pin

Guest
Originally posted by Fagane
replay for Jiggs:

This is getting intresting, I would like to see more "stats" on dammage caps, and in test fights about dammage output of a friar, palladin 2h and armsman 2h.

Fagane
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why? armsman 2h and paladin 2h has exactly the same caps. But an armsman has ~25% higher weaponskill, thus more likely to hit things and will do more damage when they hit.

a friar has different caps due to using different styles with different growth rates (assuming you can get the weaponspeed and quickness the same). But again, a Friar has Hybrid weaponskill (and it's very rare to take staff to max aswell) so won't hit as hard or with as much consistency as an Armsman (but has other things like end shouts and haste, etc)


The only thing you really need to look at is weaponskill. And that's quite easy to compare on the character sheets.
 
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old.Wildfire

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blah blah, it is very frustrating as someone who has hundreds of days /played and millions of RPs, to go on these raids to try and get particular items, and see them go time and again to people who have been playing a couple of months and who's LWRP is somewhere in the region of 1-2k at most
 
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Fagane

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I am also intrested in how dammage is equal to weapon skill. I am told (and played a friar for some time myself) that our dammage was a bit lower then a 2h palladin (but not much). Would like to see it in examples, etc.

What does a difrence of 25 weapon skill say/do, and how does that translate in dammage output. How does a style translate vs style (friar vs pallie).

Fagane
 
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Fagane

Guest
Originally posted by old.Wildfire
blah blah, it is very frustrating as someone who has hundreds of days /played and millions of RPs, to go on these raids to try and get particular items, and see them go time and again to people who have been playing a couple of months and who's LWRP is somewhere in the region of 1-2k at most
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These raids are not a reward for your /play, also these raids are not a reward for your /uberfeelings. These raids are for the fun and get some desent loot. You need a lot of people to beat Apok, and you are just 1 of the 150 in that raid. Mybe 10 people on that raid are RR5+, and the 10 people did not do 90% of the work, they did about 1/15th of the work.

You could argue that they did a bit more with they're RA, but in that case a lot of players you need (theurgs, clerics, etc) would stay away becouse they do often more then the 10 people of RR5+. And there would be no raid.

With the restriction of level 50 only can bid, you already draw an iffy line to get the numbers. I would not make that line higher in case then new raid leaders will emerge who say:

RR5+ are not allowed to attend the raid in case they claim loot they are not entitled to.

And most of the people would leave the raid you need.

Best thing is to hope the people who get it use it, or that a raid leader makes a bid system thats fair. Mybe that if somebody attends and did win nothing he gets a +10 on his next Raid roll? Or mybe even saying if you make a bonus system that RR5+ get a 10 bonus, but the administrative for this would be terible.

Fagane
 
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Pin

Guest
Originally posted by old.Wildfire
blah blah, it is very frustrating as someone who has hundreds of days /played and millions of RPs, to go on these raids to try and get particular items, and see them go time and again to people who have been playing a couple of months and who's LWRP is somewhere in the region of 1-2k at most
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Yet another elitest snob.

What the fuck does it matter if you have played more than someone else? You both went to the raid. You didn't earn it more than him, etc, etc.

Just go on another raid and wait your turn. Stop thinking that if you are higher RR that you are entitled to something more than someone else.


But your (and most other people posting things like this) problem isn't that a low RR person got it. It's that you PERSONALLY didn't get it. You would be frustrated if every time you went a RR7/8/9/10 person got the drops you wanted yet you got nothing. It's just a MEMEME attitude with a vague elitest shroud over it.
 
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Asha

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Originally posted by seeaira
As for Kate.. I think your post here shows a true glimpse into the life of someone who plays the game too much. You are telling me that im going to be overlooked and not wanted in a group cause of my spec. I have never had a problem getting a group, but then again im not in your elitist guild. I don't play this game to be ubber or to be the best.. to get to rr10 as fast as I can or to own people. I soloed and played with vireb much of my time in this game and the other part was helping friends. I may not have much rp's I may not be the best.. but I have a lot of fun and imo that's what matters. The game is starting to suck for a lot of you people and I see people leaving. Im not sick of it, I have fun all the time and I think it has something to do with this. What happened to just having a fun group? Now everyone is pointing fingers and whining about getting owned. Pallys suck as slam bots and I for one am not going to be some cookie cutter spec .. I like the fact im original and I have fun.

lol that's funny. Now im the worst player in the game. OMFG I MUST QUIT PLAYING NOW!!
Grow up.. And anytime you want to come see who is the worst V's who.. let me know.
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You quoted that like I said it and I didn’t. I play too much because I disagree with you? What does that have to do with how much I play? What does how much I play have to do with anything? As usual, falling back on random insults when no other answers available. I didn’t say YOU, I said 2h paladins would be overlooked for normal rvr groups in favor of 1h shield paladins.

I didn’t say you have to spec a certain way. I said don’t pretend like it’s not a gimped spec for the group compared to a shield paladin. I don’t think I said it in a nasty way, so I don’t really see the need for personal attacks. I know the difference between having a good shield pala in group and not, but I guess that means I play too much.

RvR is fun. Winning is more fun than losing. Having a chance in a fight is more fun than not. Having the right classes with the right specs gives you more of a chance. Is that elite? I don’t think so.
 
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Pin

Guest
Originally posted by Fagane
I am also intrested in how dammage is equal to weapon skill. I am told (and played a friar for some time myself) that our dammage was a bit lower then a 2h palladin (but not much). Would like to see it in examples, etc.

What does a difrence of 25 weapon skill say/do, and how does that translate in dammage output. How does a style translate vs style (friar vs pallie).

Fagane
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Weaponskill is a straight multiplier in both your chance to bypass defenses and the damage you do when you hit.


So, comparing 1600 to 2000 weaponskill, the 2k Arms will get past Block/Parry/Evade 25% more frequently and will do 25% more damage when he hits.
 
D

Draylor

Guest
Armsman with 2k weaponskill? Hmmmmm, thought that was called a warrior :p

With top buffs my armsman gets a little over 1900 WS. Those with higher RR obviously have a little more, but still under 2k ;)
 
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old.LandShark

Guest
Originally posted by Flimgoblin
I believe Krane was saying "All the drops should go to me and my friends" just trying to couch it in more socially acceptable terms.
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I believe you're saying this purely because you're not high-RR and consider him an arrogant elitist. :rolleyes:

It's not at all complicated. Sidi uber-drops (i.e. the few items that are better than SC-able equivalents) should not go to anyone under level 50 and respectably close to RR5. Simple. However, for anyone to ask for this on an open raid is utterly, utterly unrealistic as there just wouldn't be enough attendance if such a rule was instigated.

edit: oh, look, i skipped 5 pages :clap:
 
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Pin

Guest
Originally posted by Draylor
Armsman with 2k weaponskill? Hmmmmm, thought that was called a warrior :p

With top buffs my armsman gets a little over 1900 WS. Those with higher RR obviously have a little more, but still under 2k ;)
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rounding off a little.

anyway, a Paladin with the same RR as you won't be up to 1600 either.
 
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