FG rvr balance in one easy step?

[Divinia]

Originally posted by ingrid
not to whine etc, but the debuff nerf is probably one of the most unneccesary nerfs mystics ever done. i mean wtf il get restless while kiting!


oh nuff whine dont like nerfs that much.
about the buffs, whould be good accept the part that 2 shammys in 1 grp, that whould make the shammys job abit overflow as u have to little to do for being 1 fulltime played char. i belive it whould render alot of shammys restless, and the feeling of being a 100% active BB of dullness more accurate. or as it whould be in reality 1 BB purely for buffs and interrupts.

uneccesary? the 3x healer grps can keep a fg from casting a whole fight,

and then the 2x shammy will make one feel like a bot, that's what we've had in hib for a while with our problem with end regen, u can overcome it with two bards but the role as 2nd bard will feel like a endbot.

 

[hotrat]

Using 2 shamans does sound like a good way to balance a mid group, pin's idea (8 str/con, 7 dex/qui, 5 end regen) would still work though and mids would only lose the abliity to roam at ss6 (and savages would have less life in combat).
There are also end regen pots which the savages could use.
Heck half the time I have to use a end regen pot if im running from a enemy as my paladin is bound to be (assisting the MA) over 1000 range away

lower dex is really not the issue - but QC (uninterruptable), access to MOC (healer has it too - but not bard) and boltrange are quite big advantages - that's why hibs lose non-insta CC battles mostly

Luckily though you have GP so losing the first mezz is not such a bad thing

Insta haste debuff definately needed to be *fixed*. A mend/aug healer has to spec just 2 in pac and gets one of the most powerful spells in the game

Again though bad mid groups don't use it (or they use it but on tanks likes its supposed to be, ROFL) and get beaten easily, its the good guild groups (NP) that use it (on support) all the time and therefore make it overpowered.

 

[old.anubis]

Originally posted by hotrat
Using 2 shamans does sound like a good way to balance a mid group

2 shamans 3 healers 1 skald 1 guard warr (to guard those 5 seers) and 1 keel oll savage able to 2-shot every enemy around
right?

 

[phule_gubben]

It's the friggin interupt part from all realms that completely destroys the game for all casterclasses, that goes for all who need to cast "whatever" to heal/damage someone. would be far better if they fixed so that only way to interupt is to actually HIT a caster.

Just expressing my opinion thou.

 

[Lessurl]

Originally posted by K0nah
fg balance in one easy step?:

remove healer insta interrupt
remove aoe stun
remove instamezz/insta cc
remove gp
reduce effectiveness of bof
make buffs ranged

Slightly biased don't you think?
1. not just healers who can insta interupt.
2. what about sos? very uber ra if used correctly.
3. Remove insta cc? so Albs with qc and bolt range mez would have major advantage then....would need to give up something there to be balanced.
4. You are removing insta cc, aoe stun, the "healers" insta interupt.....way to destroy a class.

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by old.anubis
2 shamans 3 healers 1 skald 1 guard warr (to guard those 5 seers) and 1 keel oll savage able to 2-shot every enemy around
right?

If mids did have to use 2 shamans (which I doubt they would even if buffs got a range)they could spec 1 shaman mend/aug, the other cave/aug, use a 44 pac/31 mend healer, another 39 mend 37 aug healer, 1 skald, and 3 savages or 2 savages 1 warrior.
Still plenty of healing power, both healers get 2 insta heals each, and ofc PR (to make up for the lack of a 100% rez), 2 shamans would mean 2 x ichor which is pretty handy.
Certainly would be interesting anyway

 

[Rulke-RM]

You do realize shaman mend spec is a joke, right?
Back when ouro was a buffbot he was 42/33 aug/mend. With the 33 spec heal he did 383, now i've respecced him and he has 4mend and he heals for 200-250.

Instead of running 2 shaman groups, double shamans conc and decrease mid group size to 7, would have the same effect

 

[tildson]

1pac
1mend/aug
1skald
1warrior
1shaman
1supp RM
2 light-tanks / SM's or RM's - or 1warrior/light-tank + caster

pretty versatile group, and fun!

will only work if they fix the interuption system

 

[K0nah]

Re: Re: Re: FG rvr balance in one easy step?

Originally posted by Forau
Restoring balance wouldn't be to gimp the mid group, it would be to even out the odds and believe me, one less spreadhealer would make alot of difference.

yes but replacing a spreadhealer with a 5th dmg dealer who can also heal and cast 60s aoe root (negating the need for 3rd spreadhealer in alot of cases no doubt) the effect on overall balance = no change.

i.e. midgard support/cc core would still be best in game by far

 

[sheph]

set a limit of 1 of each class in a group and it will be fun

 

[ingrid]

Originally posted by Divinia
uneccesary? the 3x healer grps can keep a fg from casting a whole fight

depends if you have pac healer and reserve pac u have 3 interrupters shammy healer and healer, but as it is its easyer to interrupt a healer then a caster, but i agree its the reason i feel hibs has the lowest straw of the realms... but a normal setup is 2 mend aug's that means 2 interrupters pac healer (who almost always gets targeted and interrupted whole battle) and shammy (main target for everyone) so the interrupters are kinda harassed so the interrupting aint that easy.

 

[old.Thanatlos]

Originally posted by Rulke-RM
You do realize shaman mend spec is a joke, right?
Back when ouro was a buffbot he was 42/33 aug/mend. With the 33 spec heal he did 383, now i've respecced him and he has 4mend and he heals for 200-250.

Instead of running 2 shaman groups, double shamans conc and decrease mid group size to 7, would have the same effect

Shaman mend spec is still better than warden regrowth spec, at least you got more than one heal and a few COMBAT buffs there :\

 

[old.Filip]

4. You are removing insta cc, aoe stun, the "healers" insta interupt.....way to destroy a class.

bahh no not destroy ...

compare to:

cleric ... they can only heal ... mend healer will still be a nice option....

sorc: pfffffff ... still lots of instants on the healer with chain which would make it a nice char ...

i understand it would feel like a nerf to many healers but they lack the sorc/bard/cleric experince im sure

 

[alme]

Originally posted by Rulke-RM
You do realize shaman mend spec is a joke, right?
Back when ouro was a buffbot he was 42/33 aug/mend. With the 33 spec heal he did 383, now i've respecced him and he has 4mend and he heals for 200-250.

Instead of running 2 shaman groups, double shamans conc and decrease mid group size to 7, would have the same effect

Several JH members has told me to run with 2 bards. Now tell me why the 2nd bard is better than a 2nd shaman.

 

[Rulke-RM]

Originally posted by old.Thanatlos
Shaman mend spec is still better than warden regrowth spec, at least you got more than one heal and a few COMBAT buffs there :\

Correct me if i'm wrong but shaman get
Heal (major)
cures
frigg single and group
30% rezz

Warderns regrowth
Heal(major)
30%rezz
self end
self style end reduction
self health regen (like frigg i assume?)

So basically the shamans only better in that he has cures, friggs are useless in RVR. What are these "combat buffs" shaman get?

but the comparison is pointless because 2 wardens have repeatable damage and utility, melee, pbt etc. whereas a 2nd shaman cant DOT, cant disease and their dmg spells (both sub standard even with full cave spec) are on 20 second timers. oh, and wardens get 1.5x spec, shaman are clerical 1.0x.


If mythic did, in their infinite wisdom, decide to make buffs ranged, they had damn well better improve shaman mend spec.

 

[old.Filip]

to me stubbe's idea seems good ... just as many others i doubt they ever do something to nerf the BB money

 

[alme]

Originally posted by Rulke-RM
self end
self style end reduction
self health regen (like frigg i assume?)

 

[alme]

Originally posted by Rulke-RM

So basically the shamans only better in that he has cures, friggs are useless in RVR. What are these "combat buffs" shaman get?

Ive also been told by JH that bards AM is uber. AM is a hot, but ure now saying hots are useless?

 

[Rulke-RM]

Originally posted by alme
Several JH members has told me to run with 2 bards. Now tell me why the 2nd bard is better than a 2nd shaman.

-grp can run speed6 w/o twisting
-1 bard can run end if other is interupted
-1 bard doesnt negate the dmg of the 2nd (unlike shaman)
-2x Mezzers is great for adds
-2x insta lull
-2x AM
-Bards at least get spec group heals
-2x Cure mezz
-2x insta mezz if all else fails

Compared to benefits of having 2 shaman
-2x Ichor
-383hp single heals from 1!!!!!!!
-bolt assisting to kill casters!

If you insist on comparing shaman to bards/wardens then give us 1.5x and weapon spec


EDIT where did i say warden regrowth line was better? i only stated that the only difference shamans have in mend is cures, and they are low spec.

And i've never seen any figures on AM so i wont comment on it, all i've heard about it is its some sort of uber frigg/ Some says its nice, others say its a waste. But imo if you dont make use of every tool you have then its your lose.
For example, hug just respecced his RAs and got Fury of the Gods to give us a small advantage vs BoF

 

[old.Filip]

dont you forget root from shammies ??? + dot's at least 1 of the shammies should have some cave imho..

 

[Rulke-RM]

yeah, but the problem is when you have 2 shaman...
1 DoTs and the other gets "has this effect"
with the higher cave shaman rooting (as well as the healers) the 2nd shaman's redundant there as well
Same with disease

Besides, DoT is used infrequently usually

 

[schinkaar]

Friggs is a HoT that is reduced by combat, AM is not?
I think 2 bards 2 druids and 4 bm:s is viable, and similar to PR, AM gets better when u have more than 1. If u cant figure it out then ask someone who can..
I was told by a JH member that IG knew how daoc works, he was obviously mistaken.

 

[arrakeen]

Originally posted by Rulke-RM
For example, hug just respecced his RAs and got Fury of the Gods to give us a small advantage vs BoF

How much does that dmg add + skald dmg add give ?

Never meet at skald who has it

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Rulke-RM

So basically the shamans only better in that he has cures, friggs are useless in RVR. What are these "combat buffs" shaman get?

Basically the lack of cures is a big one. Because overpowered shammies with insta PBAoE-disease on a 8 sec timer make sure the entire group is like 'always' diseased.

Wardens cannot cure that so their heals will already be cut in half

but the comparison is pointless because 2 wardens have repeatable damage and utility, melee, pbt etc. whereas a 2nd shaman cant DOT, cant disease and their dmg spells (both sub standard even with full cave spec) are on 20 second timers. oh, and wardens get 1.5x spec, shaman are clerical 1.0x.

Hence probably the mending-spec, dont you think ?

If mythic did, in their infinite wisdom, decide to make buffs ranged, they had damn well better improve shaman mend spec.

It's more or less the same for all secondary healing classes. Shaman has it easier then a friar to heal because a shaman can disease, 'nuke', 'bolt' and 'DoT' and not melee.

Its easier to heal during casting then during melee.

 

[Rulke-RM]

lack of cures?
usual hib group:
2 droods, bard
Alb
2 clerics, friar usually
mid
Dunno about other mid groups, but JH has 3 healers and shaman with no cures
So thats 3 curers in each realm

Hence probably the mending-spec, dont you think ?

Are you referring to my "shaman are 1x clerical classes" here?
Explain why they have worse mend spec than friars, bards and even mentalists then pls.

Shaman are the only secondary "healer" that is 1x spec.
Why are people so against shaman having a mend line worth speccing?


EDIT FoG does around 40-50 on top of dmg add, and isnt halved like shaman/RM dmg add

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Rulke-RM
Why are people so against shaman having a mend line worth speccing?

BECAUSE!

 

[tazzke]

Ranged buffs....

would turn this game around BIG time...

for assasin stealthwars this would be very good...since all would fight eachother with +- the "same" weapons...but would also mean they can't attack anything else solo since opponent will have buffs if he/she is grouped

but archers vs grouped char with buffs...

How would an archer kill something from range...out in the open field...without any buffs.. talking scout & hunter here, since ranger still got own buffs that would help a bit

Unless it's an unbuffed class fighting someone else...he won't kill it fast enough i think.


Imagine a group with infils, mincer & scouts in it + 1-2 clerics...

They see inc...all push stealth...and who will die a painfull dead?

yup...

The idea of ranged buffs is nice...but will never happen i'm afraid.
1/2 the people would luve it..other 1/2 hate it

 

[Forau]

Originally posted by alme
Ive also been told by JH that bards AM is uber. AM is a hot, but ure now saying hots are useless?

he said friggs are useless. Friggs aren't hots. HoT is something that works like a DoT, specific ammount healed / specific time period. Friggs on the other hand, are affected by what is commonly known as "tics" i.e every time you regain mana is 1 tic. In resting this "tic" is roughly 3 seconds if I'm not mistaken. When standing a tic is 6 seconds and while in combat a tic is 12 seconds. See the difference? A small ammount healed every 12 seconds, vs every 3 seconds i.e a HoT would in rvr-combat heal for 4x more than a friggs. Add to this that AM is supposed to be(won't say for sure since I've never used/seen it) quite powerful HoT, and you'll see why AM can be good and friggs useless.

 

[Forau]

Re: Re: Re: Re: FG rvr balance in one easy step?

Originally posted by K0nah
yes but replacing a spreadhealer with a 5th dmg dealer who can also heal and cast 60s aoe root (negating the need for 3rd spreadhealer in alot of cases no doubt) the effect on overall balance = no change.

i.e. midgard support/cc core would still be best in game by far

That is the biggest load of **** I've ever read. Shaman as a damagedealer? I hope you don't choke on those lies(oh wait I do, guess I'll just choke on my own). AE roots don't stack, so why would another one casting those make "a world of difference". Saying that Shammies can heal is a grave overstatement, they can heal on the same level as a 33mend (if you give up the "uber second AE-rooter" ofc) friar/warden can heal which is compared to spread heals, nothing.

Second shaman compared to a spreadhealer would be a quite big step down for a mid group and I agree with alot of the folks here that the idea isn't perfect since playing the mendshammy would most probably be frustrating at best. On the other hand, why would it be any less fun than a warden? bubble, resistbuffs, interrupt and heals

 

[old.Aragone]

i think putting buffs on a range might be the best thing that could possibly happen for this game mids would be forced to bring buffers killing the shaman would actualy make mids loos buffs, and they would be forced to actualy take buffers out for rvr ... damn

stealthers wouldent be the add kings or be able to take on almost any target even if its grped in rvr they would have to actualy think about what they are attacking not just camp mgs and add.

over all i think it would help the game alot would make rvr and grps functione like they are surposed to realy and it would take away the druid/cleric/shamans asking -Do anyone want my buffs today ? - and actualy let em get use of like half their spec points they put in this atm almost usless spec lines.