A way to achieve balance in RvR?

[nuky]

Originally posted by Pin

But in particular it nerfs anyone who isn't in an organised RvR guild who don't 'only build the best group possible', which includes myself who mainly play to have fun with friends.

best point anyone has made in the whole thread imo - not everyone PL's fotm chars in a few days to 50 just so they can join the rest of their guild grps PL'ed fotm chars. people have been hammered by grps like this so much that it gets them crying nerf this and nerf that - and when it happens, can sometimes really destroy the game for the 'average' player who has spent 20 days /played to get to 50 and not 2

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by vintervargen
getting owned by savages even tho you do everything right, isnt very fun to me :\

the nerf savages. this idea is irrelevant to that though.

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by Pin
nerf savages

doh

couldn't resist

 

[Pandemic]

mmm that would restrict each mid grp to only having 1 zerker or 1 savage (the other 2 places being taken by warrior and skald) given that midguard is meant to be the close combat realm you would only have 1 truly offensive damaging tank in each grp thats a big nerf

i have been in grps b4 that have this setup (not by choice ) and they do not have enough damage output to beat alb / hib grps just lock down or kill the savage / zerker in each grp and you would win very easily

 

[bracken_woodman]

Originally posted by alithiel50
A step in the right direction towards achiving balance between the realms in RvR would be to cap the number of any base class (ie fighter, seer, rogue, naturalist, etc) that can join a group at 3.

Discuss.

Would be worth a go - might bring back more variety to rvr.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica
I don't think so. Any realm can make a viable combination of classes, so I think the game could be balanced if people actualy played those classes in the right numbers... it's just that some classes in some realms are not deemed fun to play, or at least not when specced in the most groupfriendly way... so some classes are underpopulated, making the realm weaker as a whole (low non-buffbot druid population for instance).

It's funny theres almost never an alb saying this. It usually comes from hibs and mids .

 

[mehuge]

3 healer groups is not only a problem for other realms it's also a problem for our own realm.

People are being left out of decent rvr (being left to random class groups with little or no healing) because guilds are allocating 3 healers to a group.

Not a very guild friendly thing to do imo.

 

[infozwerg]

restricting groups would change nothing.

you would still get pwned beyond belief by skilled groups and whine for nerfs of (insert random class here) because you feel cheated when you are just playing bad.

and it would destroy the alb groups i used to run with (no more 4 acolytes etc).

 

[cjkaceBM]

One way to achieve balance is to make everyone exactly the same. BORING

The other is to allow people to spec however they choose and for each skill line to actually be viable, instead of having certain skills being the uber RvR ones and the others just fancy lace on an old dress.

When I first heard of Realm Abilities I envisioned a scenario where you pick a skill that another class has (but not as powerful as the original). This I feel would have been more balancing and given more diversity to every player.

 

[Kallio]

THe fact is that alb has different abilities spread out ont oo many chars, while mids can use healer (31mend 44pac) for spreadhealing and CC albs will have to take Sorc to RvR group just for the mezz.

Mids can run without a caster, albs cant. That´s a problem.

Sorc could be given 1.2/1.5spec points... would it make em too overpowered? Or baseline DD or something that they would be in for also something else than the mezz and crappy dmg.

*Sorc casts a spell!*

*you are hit for 150dmg*

/yawn

 

[parzi]

this rules wont work for the simple reason that maybe there are 3 healers of the guild online and no rm, then say "no sorry, no 4 seer classes" to guildie and take a random rm or wut ?
wtf

 

[infozwerg]

Mids can run without a caster, albs cant. That´s a problem.

albs can run without caster np, you can have very strong groups without casters.

been there, done that.

 

[Antedeluvian]

Originally posted by old.krane
3 savages are more than enuff to kill anything in secs..

wont change anything..

Skalds are vikings too....

 

[skile]

Originally posted by infozwerg
albs can run without caster np, you can have very strong groups without casters.

been there, done that.

Without a sorc? Are you crazy? ^^

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by infozwerg
albs can run without caster np, you can have very strong groups without casters.

been there, done that.

no sorc?

 

[-yoda-]

nerf ALL buffbots and take away insta cc .. nuff said imo

 

[schinkaar]

Healers is the best support class in the game, savage is the best damagedealer in the game, and shamas are the second best support in the game. So mids build their groups with 7 chars that are best on their respective area .

Mythics main problem is that they want daoc to be balanced in so many fields PvP,RvR, GvG and PvE. This is close to impossible if you want to have 30 classes that arent alike, and so many different abilitys, and the fact that mythic has some of the worst programmers doesnt make it any easier. The obvious solotion is to use different rulesets to separate them, this whould prolly be very confusing for the players, and whould still only be a first step.
After that they whould be forced to add content and meaning to players who preffer all different playstyles, to really make sure they get full efficiency you whould need all to improve your char but in different ways. However instead of reducing the complexity and increasing end-game value they multiply the complexity while only adding to the endgame. Thats why I think that there will NEVER be any balance in daoc, but who knows maybe mythic will start thinking before they implement stuff.

 

[Subbiz]

Originally posted by ceix
wouls still leave mid with 3 healers

->

3 cure mezzers
3 perfect recoveries
3main healers with spreadheal and instas

so no shaman I guess? coz shaman is a seer class, and with 3 healers (also seer) that leaves grp w/out shaman..

 

[cerberos]

Originally posted by vintervargen
getting owned by savages even tho you do everything right, isnt very fun to me :\

And i get owned by chanter grp in less than 1sec. Where is the fun in that?

I have full SC and above 50% resist in heat/cold/matter.

*** Chat Log Opened: Tue Aug 19 22:06:14 2003

[22:06:39] Aathnoo was just killed by Twinkies!
[22:06:39] Aathnoo just died. His corpse lies on the ground.
[22:06:40] You are hit for 219 damage.
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[22:06:42] Elyana just died. Her corpse lies on the ground.
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[22:06:42] Korgano just died. His corpse lies on the ground.
[22:06:42] You are hit for 782 damage.
[22:06:42] A crystal shield covers Twinkies's skin.
[22:06:42] Suder was just killed by Twinkies!
[22:06:42] Suder just died. His corpse lies on the ground.
[22:06:42] Dushi was just killed by Twinkies!
[22:06:42] Dushi just died. His corpse lies on the ground.
[22:06:42] You are hit for 624 damage.
[22:06:43] Cerberos was just killed by Twinkies!
[22:06:43] Your Strength has decreased.
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[22:06:43] You have died. Type /release to return to your last bind point.
[22:06:43] You died fighting for your realm and lose no experience!

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by ceix
wouls still leave mid with 3 healers

->

3 cure mezzers
3 perfect recoveries
3main healers with spreadheal and instas

yeah, but then they wouldn't have any end

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by old.krane
3 savages are more than enuff to kill anything in secs..

wont change anything..

thing is, with 3 savages they can't have a skald wich is the same baseclass as savage...

the normal setup would prolly be 3 supporters, 3 tanks, 2 mages.

think it would hurt mids the most and albs the least.

 

[alithiel50]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
No more 4 Naturalist groups (2 Druid, 1 Warden + 1 Bard)

So you want to cut out Hibernia out of resists/PBT, CC or a 2nd healer?

It would be a big nerf to Hibernia.

Mid: Pac Healer, Mend Healer, Shammy (1 primary healer, 2 backup healers, end regen, main CC) - also gives disease
Hib: Druid, Warden, Bard (1 primary healer, 2 backup healers, end regen, main CC) - also gives PBT

Alb: 2 Clerics, Paladin, Sorc (2 primary healers, end regen, main CC)
Hib: 2 x Druid, Bard (2 primary healers, end regen, main CC)

Seems to balance reasonably well on paper...

 

[schinkaar]

3 healers 1 dark carver 1 dark rm 3 savages. gives you 3x ae amnesia, 2x ae mezz, 3x singlemezz 4x singleroot 1x pbt 2x assistteams, 2x ae stun, 3x single stun, 3x spreadheal, 3x instaheals, 3x PR, 3x ress and 3x cure mezz. Only thing that whould hurt is SoS, but you whould prolly win anyway. a hib pbae grp whould be slightly harder to beat than with a usuall sav grp, dunno how baod and debuff works tho (very bugged i guess) if the damage is still good it might actually do better than a regular savage grp. i doubt you can make any hib/alb grp that has the same or higher utility.

 

[alithiel50]

Originally posted by schinkaar
3 healers 1 dark carver 1 dark rm 3 savages.<snip>i doubt you can make any hib/alb grp that has the same or higher utility.

No Skald and no Shaman = No speed and no end regen... you'll be lucky to kill a Hib Brehon tank group!

 

[Vasconcelos]

Originally posted by alithiel50
No Skald and no Shaman = No speed and no end regen... you'll be lucky to kill a Hib Brehon tank group!

Guess u meant a Hib Savant fg....

 

[warlock_es]

Originally posted by alithiel50
A step in the right direction towards achiving balance between the realms in RvR would be to cap the number of any base class (ie fighter, seer, rogue, naturalist, etc) that can join a group at 3.

This is funny
Alb proposes a change that will gimp other two realms while albion will be left unaffected

 

[schinkaar]

Savages dont need end regen anyway, and i rather have 4x singleroot than end regen to avoid beating as a support char. And you can bet your ass that most high rr tanks will have pf, or slam for that matter. 1 end bar whould be more than enuff in this group build. The only thing that hurts is the disease but the higher dmg output whould compensate for that against tank grps.
Cant believe you whine about mid being overpowered without actually understanding why..

 

[alithiel50]

Re: Re: A way to achieve balance in RvR?

Originally posted by warlock_es
This is funny
Alb proposes a change that will gimp other two realms while albion will be left unaffected

Erm, no... it does affect Albion.

The current 'standard' RvR group in Albion is 2 Clerics, Sorc, Minstrel, Paladin and 3 Tanks (Merc/Arms/Reaver). This has 4 fighter classes...

 

[samildanachh]

Originally posted by gunner440
nah

just delete the savage class from game and itll all be fine

whats strange is that is actually partly true

 

[alithiel50]

Originally posted by schinkaar
Cant believe you whine about mid being overpowered without actually understanding why..

I never said Mids are overpowered... I'm suggesting that certain group configuations in each realm are unbalanced and overly difficult to fight against without relying on RA's, which is not, I believe, how the game is intended to work.

And while you say you don't need end regen, you're still missing the fact that your group has no Skald, and is therefore never going to be effective in RvR as you'll never land a first-strike mezz without speed. You will constantly be on the defensive against others who mezz you before you even know whats hit you! And as you'd be losing one of those 3 Savages to fit the Skald in the group, you are going to need that end regen after all if you want him to be able to /assist effectively!