Death of a scout !

[old.Woodmansee]

Woodmansee , you dont know shit , thats the problem , ones you have been shot for that much and now you think we will all shoot like that ? I play this class long enough to know thats not treu , so dont go telling you know it all !


I dont know what your trying to say.
I do know that your getting NURFED thou so hahaha.
Someone up there thought stealth was to powerfull and not just me and and 1xxxx other people!

 

[Tranquil-]

You don't know if the damage consistently being done is uber, you take one example, probably the highest one you can find and slam it up here, since oyu have been playing daoc for so long time you have been hit before by scouts, and that damage is NOT consistently high.

Let's say the hit was 521 as you said, it might have been 261 + 260 in crit. That means that he hits you for ~260 normally and you got plenty of hp, so that's not much at all.
And if he lines up a crit shot he does that damage in the first shot only, after risking quite a few seconds in standing still finding a good spot, avoiding confrontation etc.

in addition to this there's a ~4 sec reload time for each shot, and that is if he is allowed to stand still, if you do your job he won't be able to do that, and then he has to relocate and start over.

You guys laugh alot for gimps.

I thought you said we weren't gimps, only nerfed.

 

[old.chesnor]

Doesn't matter if it was a crit shot. You measure a class's dmg output by measuring the max dmg they can do. I got plucked for 521 dmg by a scout, and that kind of dmg output is uber. Therefore nerf pls. iirc I had around1100hp, a few arrows and I'm dead meat.

What you fail to understand is that Mythic try to bring balance to this game. Casters hit for loads sure, but if you get up close to a caster they cant melee for toffee. It is inherently risky playing a caster in RvR. Kill lots, die lots.

Scouts however could deliver high dmg ranged AND melee good. The last 1on1 I had in Emain before I rolled my new char was with an orange cons scout. He had me to 50%hp before I got to him. He then sliced me up with his thruster (bonus on chain). Not many classes get huge ranged dmg + good melee. Oh and they can go invisible fs.

Scouts and archers in general have always been owerpowered in RvR. And that is a fact.

 

[old.Elrohir_CBH]

Originally posted by Woodmansee
Woodmansee , you dont know shit , thats the problem , ones you have been shot for that much and now you think we will all shoot like that ? I play this class long enough to know thats not treu , so dont go telling you know it all !


I dont know what your trying to say.
I do know that your getting NURFED thou so hahaha.
Someone up there thought stealth was to powerfull and not just me and and 1xxxx other people!

You know that for sure ? , because i for one know that most ppl find this last stealth nerft (see hidden) abit overpowerd even mages , only you seem to like it when ppl get nerfed and not 1xxx ppl whit you !

I dont say that it shouldnt happen , because i never picked an archer for stealth im only saying that in big lines archers have been nerfed to much , so the effect off see hidden should be much much less or we should get some love back.

chesnor

2 things , one : class is balanced on averige dmg and changes of winning not max dmg.

Archers do not melee well againsed anything other than ppl who cant do much dmg back , you where just stuppit to go in melee whit him and if you where a fighter the scout wouldnt have won.

Now i point out again OUT again , you are not a fighter class , i would expect nothing more of you then to lose.

Another thing is not all archers are the same and scouts do have the best melee, still i dont think we are over powered , we arent complete gimps , but i wouldnt call archers good either, mages they are real good , mages own you , so why dont you go complain nerfing them.

 

[Tranquil-]

He was orange con and you expect to kill him hands down?

And he even made a choice to go thrust which should give him a plus against chain. what type of melee are you? if you want to be an archer killer go slash.

I would expect to kill a guy lower than me if I spotted him first and got my crit planted. And you can't say that since he can plunk one arrow with crit, he can do the rest with crit aswell.

They may have been overpowered, but that is not the fact now or will certainly not be the fact when 1.50 comes.

And I don't have good melee. Casters are very poor meleewise, but they haven't got to worry for every shot they make. "Can I pull this off without having a fumble and miss?" Sure they can get resisted, but hardly not as often as an archer misses.

Go to www.critshot.com and read the forum, they have got plenty of statistics and info gathered to show off.

To finish off this, go level a scout to 35+ and you will see what we mean(I really think you should). You can't just look at it from one angle.

 

[kr0n]

If youre an archer. And die to a mage. I mean, you try to keel him and u loose, u sawk

Runeis are tough due PBT. But beatable.

Ever heard of doing normalshot first to get BT off and then crit?

And with hunter you have your third arrow drawn before the first hits.

Ranger hits hard and shoots fast. Pfft... 0wn.

 

[old.chesnor]

Some facts...

1/ Scouts do hit bloody hard with longbows. Some guy on ign stated his crit shot does 1011dmg on a lvl0 mob. That is his dmg cap. 1000+ dmg...nice I have personally been crit shotted by Winter for 521 dmg when she was orange cons and I was lvl45ish. Oh and she has a specced weapon (I didn't) and a specced shield (I didn't) oh, and stealth.

2/ See hidden won't destroy RvR for archers. It may make it more difficult for the solo archer. But this is RvR, get groups and you won't have to rely on your stealth all the time. You'll have to get your RP like the rest of us. Working together in teams

3/ Most archers are natural griefers. I've played this game since open beta, day in day out. And I cannot count how many times lvling my chars I have been griefed in the frontiers by archers. It was such an overpowered RvR class that it attracted the griefers. Sure there were some non-griefing archers, but most griefed, and that is fact.

4/ Stealth in this game sucks. Stealth should be like great camoflage, not 100% invisibility fs.

Now, I think your class could really do with a leg up for PvE. You are not all that special, but this isn't the price you pay for RvR uberness. Many other classes arent great in PvE or RvR. The whinges seemed to be based purely on 'I was uber now I'm not baaaaaah' arguments.

And another thing, I seemed to remember when Myhtic fixed the one shot kill no de-stealth asassin 'bug' the ign boards were aflame with moaning asassins. Now it appears that with See Hidden the asassin population is thriving. People always whinge when they get nerfed, but you have got to look at the big picture. Scouts (and other archer classes) were the most annoying classes in RvR. Soloing and killing with total impunity. The game is better for this nerf.

 

[old.Grymshadow]

Archers have been hit with nerfs nearly every patch. Increased draw times, 20% less dmg rvr and pve, higher miss rates, higher fumbles (lvl50 archers (with 50 bowspec) 3 fumbles in a row posted on VN). I believe most casters now get a self BT at least. Pets see through stealth and will chase forever.

Tbh If your hit by an archer(and survive) and you havent got /face engage..or /face qc mezz.stun.nearsight..or your not instantly running away from him(big arrow in chest gives clue) you deserve to get killed.

 

[old.Woodmansee]

Archers in uo do 1/3 of a hally hit and every char has the chance to hide or cast invis....

Uo is the most balanced PVP game to date!!!!


nuff said

 

[Tranquil-]

"1/ Scouts do hit bloody hard with longbows. Some guy on ign stated his crit shot does 1011dmg on a lvl0 mob. That is his dmg cap. 1000+ dmg...nice I have personally been crit shotted by Winter for 521 dmg when she was orange cons and I was lvl45ish. Oh and she has a specced weapon (I didn't) and a specced shield (I didn't) oh, and stealth. "

- Scouts should hit bloddy hard with a longbow, why do you think the longbow was feared? Winter has weaker armor/less hitpoints. Even so, there are always classes that will be weaker against certain other classes.

"2/ See hidden won't destroy RvR for archers. It may make it more difficult for the solo archer. But this is RvR, get groups and you won't have to rely on your stealth all the time. You'll have to get your RP like the rest of us. Working together in teams "

- I don't see See hidden as a very big problem, it get's tougher to kill stuff, but there are ways to discover stealthed assassins nearby.

"3/ Most archers are natural griefers. I've played this game since open beta, day in day out. And I cannot count how many times lvling my chars I have been griefed in the frontiers by archers. It was such an overpowered RvR class that it attracted the griefers. Sure there were some non-griefing archers, but most griefed, and that is fact."

- Yeah, almost all archers like to grief, just like alot of minstrels like to grief, alot of mezzers like to grief and alot of tanks like to do it. You can't say that one class is more filled with griefers than another one, it's just that it's easier to spot them among the people in the archer pen. Since they kill from far away. Which can be annoying.

"4/ Stealth in this game sucks. Stealth should be like great camoflage, not 100% invisibility fs."

- I agree. blurryness or something. But assassins need something else to function as they do today, or something else has to be done. That will completely change the game and won't be DAoC.

"Now, I think your class could really do with a leg up for PvE. You are not all that special, but this isn't the price you pay for RvR uberness. Many other classes arent great in PvE or RvR. The whinges seemed to be based purely on 'I was uber now I'm not baaaaaah' arguments."

- I haven't seen any "I was uber and now I'm not" arguements here, mostly well thought of comments and remarks from the archer side. Not exactly what you and woody has been flooding the thread with. "NERF NERF HAHAHA NOOB"

"And another thing, I seemed to remember when Myhtic fixed the one shot kill no de-stealth asassin 'bug' the ign boards were aflame with moaning asassins. Now it appears that with See Hidden the asassin population is thriving. People always whinge when they get nerfed, but you have got to look at the big picture. Scouts (and other archer classes) were the most annoying classes in RvR. Soloing and killing with total impunity. The game is better for this nerf."

- The see hidden passive ability has made assassins find new territories to hunt in, archer land. Therefore they don't need the oneshot kill feature anymore. Personally I think the mezzers and the like are the most annoying classes in rvr, but that's only my opinion. Like you think archers are the most annoying classes. That is your opinion. I know quite a few tanks who despise the mezz more than any archer. If the game is better with the nerfs is yet to be seen. On the paper it doesn't look like it, and the reason most people complain about see hidden is that since we don't do as much damage as we used to, we need other ways to get out of melee, and that is impossible with see hidden around.

 

[Tranquil-]

Woody, this isn't UO.

This is a remake of a medevial time.
Longbows did oneshots there.

 

[old.Elrohir_CBH]

Some facts...

1/ Scouts do hit bloody hard with longbows. Some guy on ign stated his crit shot does 1011dmg on a lvl0 mob. That is his dmg cap. 1000+ dmg...nice I have personally been crit shotted by Winter for 521 dmg when she was orange cons and I was lvl45ish. Oh and she has a specced weapon (I didn't) and a specced shield (I didn't) oh, and stealth.

__This has nothing to do whit how hard you hit in rvr , every1 hits hard on grey , and a mob no less , no scale ,no bt , no quickcast I dont think i have to yet explain why winter could hit so hard do i ?

2/ See hidden won't destroy RvR for archers. It may make it more difficult for the solo archer. But this is RvR, get groups and you won't have to rely on your stealth all the time. You'll have to get your RP like the rest of us. Working together in teams

__I agree whit you on this , no coment here , never liked to solo in rvr anyways.

3/ Most archers are natural griefers. I've played this game since open beta, day in day out. And I cannot count how many times lvling my chars I have been griefed in the frontiers by archers. It was such an overpowered RvR class that it attracted the griefers. Sure there were some non-griefing archers, but most griefed, and that is fact.

__Any class that gets alterted this much will give a nice display of ppl not liking those changes , i fact there are some that dont have no real points when they complain , thou i do think most archer give valit points and there for are not counted to this group as you call " griefers".

4/ Stealth in this game sucks. Stealth should be like great camoflage, not 100% invisibility fs.

__More i think about it the less i like stealth , not because its not cool , but because it causes to much balance problems , whitout stealth archers wouldnt be uber in the first place and no extreme nerfs would have happend.Now its tolate to change this so they might as well try to balance it , thou they are falling big time doing it.

Now, I think your class could really do with a leg up for PvE. You are not all that special, but this isn't the price you pay for RvR uberness. Many other classes arent great in PvE or RvR. The whinges seemed to be based purely on 'I was uber now I'm not baaaaaah' arguments.

__I tought you said we lied about not getting groups and now you agree in some degree we need some pve love , pppppf make up your mind.Now i agree that some classes are wors of in rvr , but that sould keep mythic from balancing us , and they should just halp those other classes instead of nerfing classes that are good.(even thou i would like to see smite clerics balanced i ratter see them fiz classes)

And another thing, I seemed to remember when Myhtic fixed the one shot kill no de-stealth asassin 'bug' the ign boards were aflame with moaning asassins. Now it appears that with See Hidden the asassin population is thriving. People always whinge when they get nerfed, but you have got to look at the big picture. Scouts (and other archer classes) were the most annoying classes in RvR. Soloing and killing with total impunity. The game is better for this nerf.

__It may be beter for they game that stealth will get nerfed but not for me , why should i pay for the mistake mythic made implenting stealth like it was ?

If i was for me i would ratter have a balanced class whitout stealth , thinking of cool abilty's we could get in instead , and maybe good pathfinding again (remember they nerfed that to)

Assasins are not overpowered anymore if ever was , no extra nerf needed there , the could use this boost , thou not at archers expens.

But mythic nefer gonna make big changes to classes again so they are stuck at either nerfing or boosting abilty's and mythic chose to nerf , instead of realy trying to make thing diverent and beter.

I would start at the root of this problem , and that is stealth remove it and no suprise attacks happen , no chance of getting away from groups using stealth , this alone would fix alot.

Now you can make archers more fun whit new abilty's , quickdraw , beter buffs , more range , tons of ids ,

but its never gonna happen so i retired my archers for now.

ooh and kr0n

i could do what you said but still i could very much lose if that some1 knows what he is doing

K , lets say i shoot , absorbs whit bladeturn , now mage turns , in that time a lineup a crit , mage does quickcast begins casting , i release and mage get hit but not interupted because of quickcast , mage shoots before i do , i get interupted , i get nuked to death , so what should i do at this ?

Not having the suprise only makes things harder , whit patch 1.50 , see my point ?

Greetz ,
EL

 

[old.chipper]

sorry bout the punctuation in my post i know it suxs big time

chesnor i do agree scouts do a shed load of dmg, and yes i might even be able to understand its dmg been reduced. what i do not agree with is with all the other class upgrades to thwart archer classes, and i still think see hidden is lame. think about what stealth is what is the point of me speccing my stealth to 30-40 if its not gonna be any good to me.

oh and ill say it again scouts are not a grp friendly char nuff said dont believe me go play one

 

[old.Odysseus]

<censored>

 

[old.stabba]

i havent read all the posts in the thread, my current screen is small and the text is fucked up. im not telling anyone how things are, im sharing of my experiences and making assumption about others based on interaction with other players.

rogues, assassins for sure, and possibly hunters have alot harder in PvE than other classes. this is mainly due to the lack of knowledge of these classess, a while back we couldnt specc a weapon above 1/2 of our lvl. needless to say this made us quite a gimp, as damage is the only thing we can provide to groups. the second reason is our lack of basic group defensive skills, such as protect, buffs, pbt our any other skill that can be brought to the same spot for the same price. especially in midgard the healer brings 2 of the vital components to a group, heals and CC. as a healer you whould preffer a tank over a rogue any day, as a member of the group you are concerned about the healers well being, since the healer is such a vital part of the group. add to that that the shortage of healers in mid, and they will have alot of influense on the group (healers most often dont of course rule their groups with an iron fist, but every fighter out there want to keep the healer happy, when the group needs ppl they will most likely get a tank for the added protect/utility). if anyone says that this isnt true, i suggest you ask the group leader in your groups why he is making the decisions he is (the ones i have asked have had a reply in this line). a healer is a joke to lvl compared to an SB, my healer is only 32 atm tho but due to often working with other healer ill have a friendslist containing other groupfriendly classes when i reach higher lvls. i can also group with ppl alot higher than me and gain sweeter xp, for my SB its the other way around, grouping with 50% bluecons is not rare. after all its more fun than soloing . this is the PvE aspect of it, and if anyone actually thinks its a great problem that healers cant solo well in PvE then they should re-think why the hell they started a healer.

as for RvR i havent been out with my healer yet but working with a stealther or too for scouting i cant really think of a stronger RvR class atm. granted i want get a much rp doing random messing on my own in a zerg fest, but i can live with that. my sb cant touch alot of things either and SB:s are supposed to be yber and one.shot the easterbunny without braking a sweat. the true differense beatwean the classes, and this goes for many classes in comparison to eachother isnt the spells, the damage or the skills, its the mindset you have when you play one. many classes seem to complain that they cant solo, yet all it requires if they want to be a rogue is to use a rogue as a scout. somewhere along the line of planning the kill, setting it up and moving at snailspeed for 20 min they loose interest tho. tbh i can group with a rogue and be as effective as another rogue with any other class (well maybe not shammie, and for pure fighters i whould prolly need a 3 people group or bigger). i doubt i will have problems with my healer in RvR, i whould even see him as more usefull than my SB given the right ppl to work with. as i lvl him i can even pick these ppl out, this is something a rogue more pften than not cannot do. thats just my view of things, and it may have been pointed out in the thread before, in that case im sorry to have taken time. this isnt a flame/whine to anyone, its just my objective thaughts on the matter.

 

[Tranquil-]

As simple as that, stabba.
That pretty much describes my own experience.


Censorship is bad, Odysseus, get it out of your system

 

[old.Ozwin]

Chesnor, seems to me you have such a big chip on your shoulder and the red fog of hate against archers that you are unable to string a decent argument together. What happened? Did a stealther totally outplay u or something?

 

[old.chesnor]

Ozwin, I have no chip on my shoulder about anyone or any class. I have played every realm and almost every class (still yet to try a Cabalist, because I am not that masochistic). I have taken a Healer to 46 in retail, and 35 in beta. I have had a 25+ warrior, a 26 champ, a 24 sorcerer, mid teens hunters and shadowblade. And 10+ everything else. I get enjoyment from trying the classes, seeing what they have to offer me.

What has always bothered me about the rogue classes is that they are uber in RvR. Invisibility is such a hugely massive and overpowered skill it is criminal. I deleted my Healer because I personally found the whole RvR experience annoying for me. Sure every class should and can kill blues in PvE. But at the heart of the Healers RvR skillset where instas on 10min timers. Without these skills I was absolutely dead in RvR if I found myself solo. Rogues get stealth, and always available uber skill. So when my group had been wiped (I generally never fought on the front lines in RvR, this is sensible as I am a resser after all). So when my group was down, and I had to go res, I was good for one 1v1 encounter. This was extremely frustrating. Rogues just go invisible. Huh!

All of my RPs were hard earned, and the shortage of Healers in Midgard is due to the fact that RvR with Healers isn't much fun. We have precisely no offense, and as already stated our most useful (and possibly overpowered spells, but thats a different story) spells are on timers. Any class without offense in RvR is always gonna have a hard time. The reason I have posted to this thread repeatedly is you guys whinge a disproportionate amount for the reality of the situation. Sure you've been nerfed, but you are far,far,far from being anywhere close to gimped. Healers clearly need something, the lack of Healer population on EU and US servers is evidence of that fact (and the dirth of archers classes and especially asassins makes it clear to me these class are still an attractive propostion).

Mythic do strive to bring balance into this game, and genuinely do listen to thier customer base. They can't respon to every whinge (if you read the class board on IGN every single player will bitch about their class, thats just human nature). But it was clear to me and many others that archers were overpowered. It is clear to me that stealth is still overpowered in this game too, as total invisibility is a ridiculous skill, that has no part in a game like this (imho). It is also my belief that other classes are overpowered too, and I am sure Mythic will visit these classes in time. More whinging and bitching will be the result of course, and I am sure that some players will leave once their class has been nerfed. But a more balanced game, where every class can offer something to PvE and RvR should be the aim and should be welcomed by everyone.

Archers generally whinge because they have been nerfed in RvR, whereas they would possibly better serve thier class by asking for some PvE loving. Hell, you only really need 1 skill that would make you 100x more attractive in PvE....Protect. Ask for that. Don't whinge....

 

[old.Jeriraa]

I want to know if anybody is interested to start a petition against "See Hidden". If so tell me and I will launch a website.

Edit: I didn't read this thread. But there is a similar on Prywden so I can imagine what it is about.

 

[old.TheAussie]

archers shoot faster , do less dmg
scouts shoot slower , do more dmg

... the same? .....

f00king whining chesnor

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by TheAussie
archers shoot faster , do less dmg
scouts shoot slower , do more dmg

... the same? .....

f00king whining chesnor

How naive. Thats like saying pierce users in Hib hit faster, but do less dmg than 2h troll hammer users, so It all balances out in the end. Thats crap. Initial dmg totally rules RvR, most battles last seconds not minutes. Scouts that hit ranged for 521dmg with 1 arrow, have got time to shoot more AND can melee are overpowered. It really does'nt matter what you or anyone else thinks about this. Its true, and Mythic clearly agrees with me.

Yay.

 

[old.Woodmansee]

Death of the scout!

Lets have a tea party!

 

[old.Elrohir_CBH]

Originally posted by chesnor



How naive. Thats like saying pierce users in Hib hit faster, but do less dmg than 2h troll hammer users, so It all balances out in the end. Thats crap. Initial dmg totally rules RvR, most battles last seconds not minutes. Scouts that hit ranged for 521dmg with 1 arrow, have got time to shoot more AND can melee are overpowered. It really does'nt matter what you or anyone else thinks about this. Its true, and Mythic clearly agrees with me.

Yay.

You realy dont get it do you ?

SCOUTS DONT DO 512 DMG , that was just luck.

Hehehe didnt your mythic made healers suck in rvr and what about blademaster , they are balanced to ?

BTW you know who made that artical ?

Not just somebody , not just a whinner as you put , but some1 that has played it since the beginning , it was the Scout Team Lead that wrote this , he did test yes test not just the guesing like you are doing , he wrote the reports , so i realy think YOUR opinion isnt beter than some1 that knows so much about the class.

Its seems that you keep saying we do to much dmg , but it isnt based on facts , you dont know how much i shoot in rvr do you , no , because you have an 1x archers , so how could you know ?

About us being gimps , i never said that , i said we wear not good enough , but that doesnt main we cant do anything , it means what i said not, good enough.

Problem is we havent always been this way , no other class has been nerfed till a state that it wasnt good enough in rvr , sure there are classes worsh of , but they always where this way , ppl knew that when they went playing those , and ppl know that there is a good change mythic is going to fix then sooner or l8ter
, but archers are only nerfed and its clear mythic isnt going to ever fix us , so that why ppl complain , and they are right to!


Other problem is pve , its wayyyyyyy to hard for us , and if you do make 50 you have a class that keep changing for the worsh .

So dont do like you know it all , because you realy dont !

 

[old.chesnor]

A scout hit me for 521dmg with 1 arrow. Therefore scouts can do that kind of dmg with 1 arrow. End of discussion.

And I don't care if a Team Leader who knows 'everything' about his class writes, or the main man at Mythic writes or the Pope freaking writes. If they write crap, I read crap. The guys whinge IS based on the fact that he has lost his uberness. End of discussion.

And finally, when a class is clearly overpowered (s acrhers undoubtedly were), Mythic have 2 options. Give some loving to classes to balance the scales a bit, or nerf. Now clearly giving some loving to every class archers dominate in RvR would have been awesome amounts of work. They had no option but to LISTEN TO USER FEEDBACK, and nerf. Not a giant gimping nerf, but a nerf to level the playing field a bit. I think they have succeeded.

And as far as dmg goes. A scout on US does 1000+ dmg on a grey mob with 1 arrow. That is an example of uber dmg output. I happen to think that most classes in this game (when specced for pure dmg output) hit too hard, not just archers (nukers and 2h weap users do hit too hard in RvR, even chars specced for derfense stand NO chance 1 on 1 against dmg junkys). So don't think I am singling archers out. I am not.

And dont moan about PvE. Asassins got it just as hard as you. Spiritmasters, cabalists, blademasters ? What you really say when you moan about PvE is 'it isnt EASY to get groups'....No shit Sherlock, you are a freaking archer of course healers and tanks will get groups easier....sheesh. Like I said about 40 posts ago, chars don't get group people at keyboards do. If you can't get a group it's probably because you are a charmless git. Use your social skills (I am sure you soloing stealthy hide behind trees grey gankers type of players have loads )

 

[Tranquil-]

"I have taken a Healer to 46 in retail, and 35 in beta. I have had a 25+ warrior, a 26 champ, a 24 sorcerer, mid teens hunters and shadowblade. And 10+ everything else. I get enjoyment from trying the classes, seeing what they have to offer me. "

- Mkay, no decent scout I see.

"What has always bothered me about the rogue classes is that they are uber in RvR. Invisibility is such a hugely massive and overpowered skill it is criminal. I deleted my Healer because I personally found the whole RvR experience annoying for me. Sure every class should and can kill blues in PvE. But at the heart of the Healers RvR skillset where instas on 10min timers. Without these skills I was absolutely dead in RvR if I found myself solo. Rogues get stealth, and always available uber skill. So when my group had been wiped (I generally never fought on the front lines in RvR, this is sensible as I am a resser after all). So when my group was down, and I had to go res, I was good for one 1v1 encounter. This was extremely frustrating. Rogues just go invisible. Huh! "

- Stealth is only partially an offensive skill and more of a defensive skill. The way Mythic meant for you to counter stealth is to use assassins. Mythic intended it to be like it is, full invisibility, and that is not going to change. Your meaning that full stealth is unfair, is fully, solely your opinion. And you can't possibly compare an attack class against a healing class, that is straight out ridiculous. It seems to me your issue is the offensive attack of the clerics, prove me wrong, and you want to be as good offensive as them. This I fully understand, but you can't possibly think that you should be able to solo an attack type class. In your pac line you get 3 chances to pacify an enemy(stun/mez/root on separate timers.)and run for cover or help, you don't have to worry about endurance either since the only thing you use that for is for sprinting. The situation you describes is comparable to a wiz jumped when walking alone, except you atleast have a chance to survive. No class has got a 100% chance to survive in rvr alone, it's all about situations, sure some classes are more fit for it, but not all classes can or should be able to do it. (I want a rezz ability too, that would be great, duh)

"All of my RPs were hard earned, and the shortage of Healers in Midgard is due to the fact that RvR with Healers isn't much fun. We have precisely no offense, and as already stated our most useful (and possibly overpowered spells, but thats a different story) spells are on timers. Any class without offense in RvR is always gonna have a hard time. The reason I have posted to this thread repeatedly is you guys whinge a disproportionate amount for the reality of the situation. Sure you've been nerfed, but you are far,far,far from being anywhere close to gimped. Healers clearly need something, the lack of Healer population on EU and US servers is evidence of that fact (and the dirth of archers classes and especially asassins makes it clear to me these class are still an attractive propostion)."

- So what you want is that the archer/assassin class should not be attractive? Healers might not be that attractive because of the lack in the offense department, still, some people like to heal/buff/help/pacify friends/enemies, some don't. That's why there are different classes and realms to chose from, you don't have to bind yourself to one realm. Maybe the healer-type of people are the ones with a maternal instinct? Not the fighting type.

"Mythic do strive to bring balance into this game, and genuinely do listen to thier customer base. They can't respon to every whinge (if you read the class board on IGN every single player will bitch about their class, thats just human nature). But it was clear to me and many others that archers were overpowered. It is clear to me that stealth is still overpowered in this game too, as total invisibility is a ridiculous skill, that has no part in a game like this (imho). It is also my belief that other classes are overpowered too, and I am sure Mythic will visit these classes in time. More whinging and bitching will be the result of course, and I am sure that some players will leave once their class has been nerfed. But a more balanced game, where every class can offer something to PvE and RvR should be the aim and should be welcomed by everyone. "

- There will always be a differance between classes, there will always be loners, there will always be outcasts, rogues are outcasts. What really happened with scouts is that first Mythic added the class and thought it would be balanced, then they discovered that "oh this class kills too much", so they have continueously removed something here added something there and adjusted the class away from what it was slowly but surely. Where they should have made one drastic change and made it right immediately, they have kept adjusting and made stealth nerfs all the way without telling.They should have finished the game more or atleast polished it a bit, there are gameplay issues and balancing issues here that should have been rooted out during beta. PLEASE read the ENTIRE text the link in the first post of this thread leads to.

"Archers generally whinge because they have been nerfed in RvR, whereas they would possibly better serve thier class by asking for some PvE loving. Hell, you only really need 1 skill that would make you 100x more attractive in PvE....Protect. Ask for that. Don't whinge...."

- If you study what we have written you will discover what we are "whinging" about, eventually. And archers haven't got any "lovin", pure hatred and nerfs all the way. Study the patchnotes, oh that's right, the patchnotes doesn't tell you all the stuff that's been nerfed, and it's been documented with statistics too. So it is real. This thread is not just about the see hidden issue, and grouping ability/disability. It's also about all the hush hush from Mythics side when it comes to patching. The false statements and lies we've been told, it's not just archers that have been hit by it, does double frost ring a bell? Mythic is slowly but surely ripping their own potential out of their grasp, they are dissolving DAoC.

When I think of the happenings myself I honestly don't know what I want or what I should expect, I am taking this as it comes.
I want this game to be challenging, it is becoming that, but some changes can be too challenging to be fun. I agree that some of the whining from archers is a bit excessive, but that is not the general talk around here, on the EU forums. And to finish this off, about the protect ability, I don't want more aggro than I already got mate. Rogues are soft tanks(paper armor remember?) and can draw aggro with the bow if needed. What could be nice is a whole new ability.

 

[Tranquil-]

To your recent post, Chesnor:

"A scout hit me for 521dmg with 1 arrow. Therefore scouts can do that kind of dmg with 1 arrow. End of discussion. "

- That one arrow is one good arrow, it's not like he can repeat it over and over and over again without you doing someting to stop it, IT'S ONE ARROW. It could have been luck, you don't know. So stop moaning about that one arrow. And don't be so fixed on ONE time happenings. He has sacrified armor, hitpoints and melee capability to be able to do high damage. You can withstand one of those arrows, he won't be able to repeat that ONE ARROW with the next arrow anyway, if he does, it's one lucky crit hit and he sacrifices so much of being able to do so that he deserves the kill. If you are alone or the guys around you didn't protect you and found him after that arrow you did something wrong. Tell me what happened after that one arrow? Did you kill him, did he get killed? Or did you die? If you did, blame yourself or the ones around you. There is no fantasy world where everyone has an equal chance to catch anyone at any time. this game certainly is not an attempt to be one.

"And I don't care if a Team Leader who knows 'everything' about his class writes, or the main man at Mythic writes or the Pope freaking writes. If they write crap, I read crap. The guys whinge IS based on the fact that he has lost his uberness. End of discussion. "

- Who are you to decide who writes crap? You who have NO, I repeat NO, background to do so, compared to the guy who has been doing so for the last year. You are still stuck with the "Uber whine" That is the past, that is not what I or anyone I have seen on this forum has been complaining about. Read what he has to say before you judge that it is crap. Heh.

"And finally, when a class is clearly overpowered (s acrhers undoubtedly were), Mythic have 2 options. Give some loving to classes to balance the scales a bit, or nerf. Now clearly giving some loving to every class archers dominate in RvR would have been awesome amounts of work. They had no option but to LISTEN TO USER FEEDBACK, and nerf. Not a giant gimping nerf, but a nerf to level the playing field a bit. I think they have succeeded."

- Read some, then decide if they have succeeded, not after how often they hit you in the neck with an arrow.

"And as far as dmg goes. A scout on US does 1000+ dmg on a grey mob with 1 arrow. That is an example of uber dmg output. I happen to think that most classes in this game (when specced for pure dmg output) hit too hard, not just archers (nukers and 2h weap users do hit too hard in RvR, even chars specced for derfense stand NO chance 1 on 1 against dmg junkys). So don't think I am singling archers out. I am not."

- Melee is so much more reliable damage than arrows, I can hit a grey for loads of damage yeah, but that grey is not what I'm gonig to hit noramlly, and purples I miss more than I hit. A purple mob is hard to hit. Melee is reliable damage.
You want classes to not stand out in any way. Everyone should be average at everything.


"And dont moan about PvE. Asassins got it just as hard as you. Spiritmasters, cabalists, blademasters ? What you really say when you moan about PvE is 'it isnt EASY to get groups'....No shit Sherlock, you are a freaking archer of course healers and tanks will get groups easier....sheesh. Like I said about 40 posts ago, chars don't get group people at keyboards do. If you can't get a group it's probably because you are a charmless git. Use your social skills (I am sure you soloing stealthy hide behind trees grey gankers type of players have loads )"

- What do you know about anyones social skills after 10 seconds when meeting him? Do you know every single person on the realm? Do you need to date twice before grouping, to get to know the person behind the character? You also just said that "No shit it's easier for tanks and healers to get groups" you have just spoken against yourself.

We aren't generalizing are we?



ps. gah

 

[Tranquil-]

My last post on this thread, you can't be convinced, Chesnor
Today I saw the light, and knew suddenly I wasn't the most stubborn guy around anyway.

 

[old.Elrohir_CBH]

You are one selfish mf , i cant belief it still hasnt came to you you might be wrong , i think you must have a big hatred to archers and you just wont belief we are weaker than tanks , mages , assasins.

Now for the love of god stop moaning about that dmg that that ONE scout did ONE time , and again grey mobs DONT count.

OOOhh and the hole world is wrong ?I think you wouldnt belief that we have a hard time even if mythic would said it , you would probelly say mythic lies and leave the game or sth , thats how big your hartred is.

All your post dont mean shit , all you do is gues , take extreem examples and spread lies , you have havent given facts (not one time shots ) to prove me wrong on one thing.

In fact you say that ppl whit facts are wrong because you say so , Team lead ? I think he knows more than you about this , after all he tested things ,played one from the beginning , but you have only a 1x archer , so why should i belief you ?

 

[old.Elrohir_CBH]

Originally posted by Tranquil
My last post on this thread, you can't be convinced, Chesnor

LOl you almost wrote the same and beter i might add

 

[old.chipper]

look its quite simple why archers are pissed of not only are they been nerfed quite badly but there main targets cloth wearers and the like are gettin upgraded to be almost invincible against archers for first shot now thats fuking bullshit and wtf does that mean if we get protect chesnor ?? wow i mean suddenly we get protect wow now no more tanks needed we can get scouts to do all the protect get real and wake up in pve we sux and in rvr we will sux end of discussion