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old.Ebeneezer
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- #31
Not a shaman in sight on those lists 
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Addlcove
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- #32
I have RL mate that plays a scout, and he blocks me more than once in a fight (im a dw merc).....
go figure
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Flimgoblin
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- #33
Actually, what you're thinking of is if there's 3 monsters on the tank, you'll need a large shield to block em all.
If you have one monster on the main tank then a small shield is fine. Infact small shields can be nice for styles for how fast they are.
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Eleasias
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- #34
1) Tenn X (50th level Celt Warden) [AfterIife] 194,637
Maybe your warden is gimped, im pretty sure his isnt
Not only that, but you can level a warden in a month real time 1-50, same goes for mana spec enchanter, and later you can respec.
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old.Elrohir_CBH
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- #35
Bah
_See Hidden is staying in the game, and in full effect. I am still trying to come up with ideas to make it more moderate, but that will have to wait for later. But for now, the idea is to force archers to group, and to also provide protection to groups from assassins via True Sight._
This is what mythic said whit a interview whit the hunter TL , so dont get your hoops up that see hidden ever will be balanced(nerfed)
_See Hidden is staying in the game, and in full effect. I am still trying to come up with ideas to make it more moderate, but that will have to wait for later. But for now, the idea is to force archers to group, and to also provide protection to groups from assassins via True Sight._
This is what mythic said whit a interview whit the hunter TL , so dont get your hoops up that see hidden ever will be balanced(nerfed)
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Tranquil-
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- #36
If the attacks of the multiple mobs are on the exact same time, it cant block them all, that's right, but that's the only occation. And since the small shield is so fast it quickly hogs in the distance the large shield got ahead.. I have blocked from several mobs that appeared to attack at the same time, and I blocked them all. A scout already blocks more frequently so the only time it doesn't work is when these several mobs hit at the exact same time. And mostly the attacks are made asynchronously.
A CC is also used, but I understand what you mean, but it's just one occation and isn't that much of a deal. The weakness of it being small is it's speed, and from my experience it seems that it's doing great.
The guy with the large shield is mostly lower on dex and therefore rarely block all of these attacks anyway, and it's not like all the attacks made by mobs attacking in packs are at the same time at all times.
A CC is also used, but I understand what you mean, but it's just one occation and isn't that much of a deal. The weakness of it being small is it's speed, and from my experience it seems that it's doing great.
The guy with the large shield is mostly lower on dex and therefore rarely block all of these attacks anyway, and it's not like all the attacks made by mobs attacking in packs are at the same time at all times.
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old.Odysseus
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- #37
Yes, there is a nice even distribution among all non-archer classes. I dont think I found one single archer in that. So I bet the archers that had all the trouble levelling their char (which is prolly the hardest to level maybe except from assassins) are very happy now.
All archers take the extra trouble in levelling to get rewarded in RvR. Those charts show excactly what the archers have got now.
As for the scout going into parties, yes they can do a little work, by guarding, pulling, nuking, but frankly... any party would rather have a tank, tank/nuker, nuker for those jobs.
Face it: scouts and infils are leechers.
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Flimgoblin
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- #38
Regarding PVE:
If played well, and allowed to play well by the group, scouts and infils can be very useful.
Scouts don't have the pure damage of a fire wizard, but they do have detaunt styles if they get aggro.
They're kinda like semi-rejuv friars - don't have the healing power of a rejuv cleric, but if they get attacked they can detaunt.
Was playing my cabalist in a small, low-level group yesterday. Can't nuke as hard as a wiz or heal like a cleric or whatever, but I can be versatile.
Scouts are damage dealers with defence. A more versatile wizard.
Infiltrators are damage dealers pure and simple, if they can get their critical strikes in they'll do more than my merc. Of course they have to be played well or they get loads of aggro.
But the same applies to wizards who refuse to wait before nuking, or cabalists that get impatient and throw in a life drain too soon (that's me btw, I died so much yesterday - everyone else was fine - I did all the dying for them)
Scouts/Infils aren't the 'must haves' in your group like armsmen and rejuv clerics seem to be but they're far from useless. Unfortunately a lot of people don't realise this and therefore refuse them groups.
(not to mention the fact that world+dog are creating archer alts to rule in RvR so there's millions of them around)
If played well, and allowed to play well by the group, scouts and infils can be very useful.
Scouts don't have the pure damage of a fire wizard, but they do have detaunt styles if they get aggro.
They're kinda like semi-rejuv friars - don't have the healing power of a rejuv cleric, but if they get attacked they can detaunt.
Was playing my cabalist in a small, low-level group yesterday. Can't nuke as hard as a wiz or heal like a cleric or whatever, but I can be versatile.
Scouts are damage dealers with defence. A more versatile wizard.
Infiltrators are damage dealers pure and simple, if they can get their critical strikes in they'll do more than my merc. Of course they have to be played well or they get loads of aggro.
But the same applies to wizards who refuse to wait before nuking, or cabalists that get impatient and throw in a life drain too soon
(that's me btw, I died so much yesterday - everyone else was fine - I did all the dying for them)Scouts/Infils aren't the 'must haves' in your group like armsmen and rejuv clerics seem to be but they're far from useless. Unfortunately a lot of people don't realise this and therefore refuse them groups.
(not to mention the fact that world+dog are creating archer alts to rule in RvR so there's millions of them around)
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old.BJ|Bored
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- #39
yea thats what i meant
but if theres 1 mob like a witherwood id still probs rather have a tank to block the dual strikes
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old.chipper
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- #40
i think its quite obvious that those who welcome these pathetic nerfs to scouts are from ppl who have bee owned by them frankly i dont care bout been killed by an archer its a ranged class so its gonna hurt bad eitherway now stealth will be no good as some lvl 35 assasin will be able to unstealth a lvl 50 archer sorry but these nerfs go way to far scouts are not nearly as uber as ppl make out even now all these nerfs will do is destroy the class
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Tigerius
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- #41
The whole thinking is so bloody flawed from start. While in non-PvE game it might work sceptically to have races/classes/choices promising a weak start but strong eventually, but in PvP where that domination will undoubtedly lead to whines from all others who didn't pick that choice... nah. Should always be avoided in a game, choices admittedly very weak for a long time but promised to be strong later. It will lead people on and of course cause great upset when the bad news come.
Give Archers and Assassins more to offer PvE groups fs! Don't make em feel like rejects in search of the promised RvR land (level).
Give Archers and Assassins more to offer PvE groups fs! Don't make em feel like rejects in search of the promised RvR land (level).
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old.Woodmansee
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- #42
I say give scouts back eveything, and take one thing from them and infils, STEALTH!
Have it all back and give someting to the infil, but NO MORE stealth!!!
Stealth = Hide and pick off weak targets = GRIEF
Have it all back and give someting to the infil, but NO MORE stealth!!!
Stealth = Hide and pick off weak targets = GRIEF
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old.stabba
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- #43
wood: assassins have their main attack from stealth, taking it away whould be a worse nerf than all of them put together .
if they wanna solve griefing there are many many ways to do it, i dunno if id rather have a 50 nuker at the gates than a 50 stealther. griefing isnt only done by stealthers, they might be the best class for it and most of them pick soloing above grouping in RvR cause they have a pretty hard time in groups (at least assassins). mythic did it all wrong from the start, and i doubt they can fix it now. maybe SWG will be a good game, but i think ill go with NWN and DaoC until world of warcraft comes out.
.if they wanna solve griefing there are many many ways to do it, i dunno if id rather have a 50 nuker at the gates than a 50 stealther. griefing isnt only done by stealthers, they might be the best class for it and most of them pick soloing above grouping in RvR cause they have a pretty hard time in groups (at least assassins). mythic did it all wrong from the start, and i doubt they can fix it now. maybe SWG will be a good game, but i think ill go with NWN and DaoC until world of warcraft comes out.
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old.Ozwin
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- #44
Thats a real good post and has given me 2nd thoughts to whether to continue my scout. Even though ive been tagged many times by archers i have to say i feel this guys and any other high level archers pain.
I understand the need for balancing any class but the thing that gets my goat is the seemingly sneaky underhand way mythic have dealt with some of these situations.
A word of warning to those telling them to stop whining and advocating its just class balancing. Remember we are several patches behind the guy who posted this. There are many character nerfs upcoming and chances are you wil also be affected sooner or later. Please remember this before u start calling them whiners.
Ozwin
I understand the need for balancing any class but the thing that gets my goat is the seemingly sneaky underhand way mythic have dealt with some of these situations.
A word of warning to those telling them to stop whining and advocating its just class balancing. Remember we are several patches behind the guy who posted this. There are many character nerfs upcoming and chances are you wil also be affected sooner or later. Please remember this before u start calling them whiners.
Ozwin
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old.Ozwin
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- #45
How can it be a nice distribution of classes if there arent any scouts? Come off it there is something seriously wrong when there isnt one scout in the list where previously there were a few.
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old.chesnor
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- #46
Wrong Ozwin. Consider this. You create an archer. You level him, slowly. You eventually reach a point where you can go hunt in the frontiers. You (like 90% of all archers) solo. You stealth, hide in trees, shoot bow, melee, rinse and repeat. You rake in large amounts of RP very quickly.
Then nasty Mythic slaps you witht he nerf bat. The tactic you have been using for the past several months no longer works too well. OMFG ! What do you do ?, spam forums endlessly with whinges and moans, thats what. Instead of looking at your class objectively and trying a new tactic. Its called GROUPING btw, you might wanna try it.
Its bullsh*t to even suggest that Mythic has nerfed archers so much that they can't get onto the top 25 list of any servers. Its obvious that archers have either stopped playing, are still trying their lame old solo tactics and dying lots, or havn't evolved a new strategy yet.
Then nasty Mythic slaps you witht he nerf bat. The tactic you have been using for the past several months no longer works too well. OMFG ! What do you do ?, spam forums endlessly with whinges and moans, thats what. Instead of looking at your class objectively and trying a new tactic. Its called GROUPING btw, you might wanna try it.
Its bullsh*t to even suggest that Mythic has nerfed archers so much that they can't get onto the top 25 list of any servers. Its obvious that archers have either stopped playing, are still trying their lame old solo tactics and dying lots, or havn't evolved a new strategy yet.
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old.Elrohir_CBH
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- #47
ppfff
I get sick of ppl who keep yelling GROUPING GROUPING , i have news for, you groups dont like us even not in rvr and this till doesnt take away the effects of the nerfs that let us do less dmg , its not like our dmg get more in groups , we still have the same weak dmg and have dificulty killing as easy as most other classes do , is that balance , i think not !
Oh and mister know it all beter , maybe you should play an archer before you come here and say all of us are wrong and you are right !
I get sick of ppl who keep yelling GROUPING GROUPING , i have news for, you groups dont like us even not in rvr and this till doesnt take away the effects of the nerfs that let us do less dmg , its not like our dmg get more in groups , we still have the same weak dmg and have dificulty killing as easy as most other classes do , is that balance , i think not !
Oh and mister know it all beter , maybe you should play an archer before you come here and say all of us are wrong and you are right !
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old.chesnor
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- #48
I have played a hunter fyi, also grouped with lots. I also know full well (and so do you so don't come here with crap) than archers do very nice dmg thankyou very much.
My lvl46 Healer in Emain....
Winter shoots you with her bow and hits for 521 dmg
^ An example of low dmg from an archer class.
Get real mate. Also with my Healer in PvE I have seen Hunters outdmg tanks if they use thier best spear styles. Even after the 'nerf' archers are in the top dmg dealing classes. (fast bow+good arrows = dmg output to challenge most tanks)
Archers can group in RvR just fine and dandy. Stop moaning ffs.
Whingers, most definately the worst class in RvR.....
My lvl46 Healer in Emain....
Winter shoots you with her bow and hits for 521 dmg
^ An example of low dmg from an archer class.
Get real mate. Also with my Healer in PvE I have seen Hunters outdmg tanks if they use thier best spear styles. Even after the 'nerf' archers are in the top dmg dealing classes. (fast bow+good arrows = dmg output to challenge most tanks)
Archers can group in RvR just fine and dandy. Stop moaning ffs.
Whingers, most definately the worst class in RvR.....
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old.Odysseus
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- #49
I fail to see the logic in this:
a) Mythic wants scouts grouping.
b) Scouts are not liked in groups - if we get a group even in RvR its only with the intention of leeching our RP.
c) Mythic makes the scout weaker.
result: Mythic expects the above to force scouts into groups.
The way I see it, scouts may now feel the need to group, but the question is; do the groups feel the need for a scout?
Consider this:
If I wanted firepower in my RvR group I would invite a theurg any day instead of a scout - he has PBT and the best DD in Alb.
====
I levelled my scout solo with the intention of soloing in RvR. If I cannot solo in RvR anymore, I have wasted a lot of time.
If Mythic has made me waste a lot of time, they have made me leave the game.
a) Mythic wants scouts grouping.
b) Scouts are not liked in groups - if we get a group even in RvR its only with the intention of leeching our RP.
c) Mythic makes the scout weaker.
result: Mythic expects the above to force scouts into groups.
The way I see it, scouts may now feel the need to group, but the question is; do the groups feel the need for a scout?
Consider this:
If I wanted firepower in my RvR group I would invite a theurg any day instead of a scout - he has PBT and the best DD in Alb.
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I levelled my scout solo with the intention of soloing in RvR. If I cannot solo in RvR anymore, I have wasted a lot of time.
If Mythic has made me waste a lot of time, they have made me leave the game.
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old.Elrohir_CBH
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- #50
yeah right !
That says nothing maybe he was higher lvl or something , but when i shot a bow on green tank i did 200 dmg thats just much to LOW(that was not the only time).(my spec are full bow and shooting whit greath recurve player made) , so you may have been lucky but archers(lets say me , but i know alot who think the same) are not doing enough dmg on tanks and good mages can kill us easy whit quickcast (they have enough time because we miss first shot)and thats not worth all that hard leveling.(why i did level it then ? , because i didnt know how the dmg was in rvr when i went doing it and yes i did stop playing my ranger)
And again you have that i think we do good dmg so all of you are wrong aditude , maybe you think 200 dmg on tank whit more than 1000 hitpoints is nice but i dont think so.And grouping in rvr isnt always bad i admit , maybe went alittle over boord there , but if you look at pve and grouping that just sad.
That says nothing maybe he was higher lvl or something , but when i shot a bow on green tank i did 200 dmg thats just much to LOW(that was not the only time).(my spec are full bow and shooting whit greath recurve player made) , so you may have been lucky but archers(lets say me , but i know alot who think the same) are not doing enough dmg on tanks and good mages can kill us easy whit quickcast (they have enough time because we miss first shot)and thats not worth all that hard leveling.(why i did level it then ? , because i didnt know how the dmg was in rvr when i went doing it and yes i did stop playing my ranger)
And again you have that i think we do good dmg so all of you are wrong aditude , maybe you think 200 dmg on tank whit more than 1000 hitpoints is nice but i dont think so.And grouping in rvr isnt always bad i admit , maybe went alittle over boord there , but if you look at pve and grouping that just sad.
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old.chesnor
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- #51
Re: yeah right !
Dude, 200dmg on a tank with 1000hp is with 1 arrow !!!!
1 freaking arrow ! If you are clever you can hit several times at least. For classes without engage, archers are feared. What do you expect to do, kill people in 1 or 2 shots ?
When Winter shot me she was a orange cons, at 46 that means she was anywhere from 47-50. I am sure she was not 50 at that time, as there were not many 50s in Alb. So a 47-49 scout hits a healer (chain armour mostly af98, 1000+hps) for 500+ with one arrow and you whinge about dmg.
And Odysseus, a scout is a scout mate. Any group that will turn down a high stealth scout to err...SCOUT the enemy are dumbasses. The information on enemy numbers/positions you can get from a grouped scout is invaluable to any group. Sure a wizard can do better dmg, but a scout can also melee. Also not everyone RvRs just to get RPs like you clearly do. I don't play this game to 'own' or amass large amount of 'points'. You clearly do, so quit you'll be no loss to your realm anyway....
Dude, 200dmg on a tank with 1000hp is with 1 arrow !!!!
1 freaking arrow ! If you are clever you can hit several times at least. For classes without engage, archers are feared. What do you expect to do, kill people in 1 or 2 shots ?
When Winter shot me she was a orange cons, at 46 that means she was anywhere from 47-50. I am sure she was not 50 at that time, as there were not many 50s in Alb. So a 47-49 scout hits a healer (chain armour mostly af98, 1000+hps) for 500+ with one arrow and you whinge about dmg.
And Odysseus, a scout is a scout mate. Any group that will turn down a high stealth scout to err...SCOUT the enemy are dumbasses. The information on enemy numbers/positions you can get from a grouped scout is invaluable to any group. Sure a wizard can do better dmg, but a scout can also melee. Also not everyone RvRs just to get RPs like you clearly do. I don't play this game to 'own' or amass large amount of 'points'. You clearly do, so quit you'll be no loss to your realm anyway....
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old.Zeikerd
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- #52
Re: yeah right !
Your sig states that you're lvl 3x. So a green tank is 2x and will have 600 hp or something like that? 3-4 hits and he is dead. What are you complaining about?
Your sig states that you're lvl 3x. So a green tank is 2x and will have 600 hp or something like that? 3-4 hits and he is dead. What are you complaining about?
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Tranquil-
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- #53
You are missing so many points that are so vital of the outcome of any battle that I am in grief. You seem to not have done your homework very well.
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SilverHood
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- #54
lol, scouts getting a group? LMAO
My scout at 27 did less damage in melee than my lvl 14 pally
bow wise, he did more than an armsman at my level
but i still couldnt get a group anywere,
hunters and scouts are totally different.... hunters can actually melee using spears... scouts can do fuck all with our little thrust weapons
scouts are used for one thing - pulling
at higher levels, armsmen can pull too, and so can casters and clerics... so why have scout that leeches xp?
The only people I have ever managed to group with in RvR is other scouts and infils,
and its abd being a scout now.... we arent even at 1.50, when a scout will become even more useless to a group
@ chesnor, go play a scout to lvl 25
you will most likely be soloing 20 of those levels, and it will take you ages to get a group... be prepared for loads of "no thx" when asking for a group
My scout at 27 did less damage in melee than my lvl 14 pally
bow wise, he did more than an armsman at my level
but i still couldnt get a group anywere,
hunters and scouts are totally different.... hunters can actually melee using spears... scouts can do fuck all with our little thrust weapons
scouts are used for one thing - pulling
at higher levels, armsmen can pull too, and so can casters and clerics... so why have scout that leeches xp?
The only people I have ever managed to group with in RvR is other scouts and infils,
and its abd being a scout now.... we arent even at 1.50, when a scout will become even more useless to a group
@ chesnor, go play a scout to lvl 25
you will most likely be soloing 20 of those levels, and it will take you ages to get a group... be prepared for loads of "no thx" when asking for a group
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old.Zeikerd
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- #55
I noticed that the last couple of weeks I've been always grouped with a scout or an infiltrator but most of the time both and sometimes even more of those sneake bastards
They get in groups fine.
They get in groups fine.
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old.Eeek
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- #56
I do get in some groups as a scout But I have also been greeted with the big NO several times. Once I was invited into a group after the leader who said NO had left as the rest of the group could see me soloing the same mobs as they (in a group) were doing and quicker
But our main role seems to be puller (although often the armsmen or caster take over the role ) or as guards to clerics/casters.
My major gripe in PVE is that a scout can only solo up to a yellow and often ends up with less than 50% health after each, where as my theurgist can happily solo 2 orange or 1 red at a time with no melee at all (just as well ) This difference is bloody ridiculous if you ask me and I have to wonder why it is all the casters that have been screaming 'nerf the archer'. I say nerf the bloody casters, they are way too strong...
Of course RvR is a different story, but then I have not got there yet and by the time I do 1.48 wil be in and possibly 1.5 (although probably not with GOA) and there are very significant nerfs to the archer classes in both of these, so I will probably have to level up my 'UBER' theurgist...
But I have also been greeted with the big NO several times. Once I was invited into a group after the leader who said NO had left as the rest of the group could see me soloing the same mobs as they (in a group) were doing and quicker But our main role seems to be puller (although often the armsmen or caster take over the role
) or as guards to clerics/casters.My major gripe in PVE is that a scout can only solo up to a yellow and often ends up with less than 50% health after each, where as my theurgist can happily solo 2 orange or 1 red at a time with no melee at all (just as well
) This difference is bloody ridiculous if you ask me and I have to wonder why it is all the casters that have been screaming 'nerf the archer'. I say nerf the bloody casters, they are way too strong...Of course RvR is a different story, but then I have not got there yet and by the time I do 1.48 wil be in and possibly 1.5 (although probably not with GOA) and there are very significant nerfs to the archer classes in both of these, so I will probably have to level up my 'UBER' theurgist...
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old.Zeikerd
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- #57
Low level theurgists can solo even purples, but how higher they get how tougher it becomes.
I can solo oranges easy but it is no fun and downtime is high compared to grouping.
I can solo oranges easy but it is no fun and downtime is high compared to grouping.
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old.Elrohir_CBH
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- #58
haha
You all seen to forget that shooting that one arrow cost 4 s , so to take a tank down even if he is green cost 12 s in that time everything can happen and that only a green.
I think i do like 150 maybe on yellow scale , with maybe 800 hp it takes 6-7 shots * 4 seconds is 24 - 28 seconds , if you can walk to me in that time he is an idiot.
Mages can simply do quickcast and interup us an kill us.
OOOhhh and that healer shot for 500 dmg , that could have been a critshot witch in most cases fail.So that was maybe 250 real , i cant be sure about this but either ,higher lvl and crit or not could have been the reason for this high dmg.
You all seen to forget that shooting that one arrow cost 4 s , so to take a tank down even if he is green cost 12 s in that time everything can happen and that only a green.
I think i do like 150 maybe on yellow scale , with maybe 800 hp it takes 6-7 shots * 4 seconds is 24 - 28 seconds , if you can walk to me in that time he is an idiot.
Mages can simply do quickcast and interup us an kill us.
OOOhhh and that healer shot for 500 dmg , that could have been a critshot witch in most cases fail.So that was maybe 250 real , i cant be sure about this but either ,higher lvl and crit or not could have been the reason for this high dmg.
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old.Odysseus
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- #59
Scouts soloing mobs:
Yellows are possible if u take the time to find the right mobs. Dont do orange, it really does not pay off in deaths and downtime.
Scouts scouting for parties:
Yes, that is definately an option, but as most scouts do not do this on the grounds that it pays little to none RP, do not expect to get a group based on that. Most ppl dont even know how to use a scout in that role.
Scouting for armies, however, is something most scouts do with deligth (until 1.50), but in small skirmish RvR, most scouts wont do it.
And before you flame me for neglecting my own skills and possibilities: I have 97K RP to show for what I have spent my time in RvR with - for comparison most other archer rp-hunters have over 200K by now.
Yellows are possible if u take the time to find the right mobs. Dont do orange, it really does not pay off in deaths and downtime.
Scouts scouting for parties:
Yes, that is definately an option, but as most scouts do not do this on the grounds that it pays little to none RP, do not expect to get a group based on that. Most ppl dont even know how to use a scout in that role.
Scouting for armies, however, is something most scouts do with deligth (until 1.50), but in small skirmish RvR, most scouts wont do it.
And before you flame me for neglecting my own skills and possibilities: I have 97K RP to show for what I have spent my time in RvR with - for comparison most other archer rp-hunters have over 200K by now.
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Tranquil-
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- #60
Good to know that not everyone is rp hungry, and are willing to spend some time to know what's really going on in the woods.
I just wonder what's there to do when you can't scout anymore.
Then there won't be a clearly defined role for the scouts to take.
My guess is that the scout will get watered out.
I just wonder what's there to do when you can't scout anymore.
Then there won't be a clearly defined role for the scouts to take.
My guess is that the scout will get watered out.