DAoC vs WoW

[Chesnox]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Daoc had no RA ML TOA ARTIFACT either until recently in the years its been going.

You think WoW wont get outta hand either?

WoW uberness PvE as you speak of it will also get fucking boring and there will be standard places to exp other more deserted like in daoc
ppl will fast understand what items are best and screw the rest useless ones just as in daoc

Quests will be powerleveled done to get the xp and hit lvls faster just as in daoc.

ZZZZzzzzz. Almost totally wrong.

The RA/ML/ToA/Artifact ppl whine about is all about grind. I'd be amazed if Blizzard implemented useless grind into the PvE game, since the rest of the game is designed to alleviate grind, not cause it. Alright, they may make expansions that will allow (force) lvl60 players to farm ever more uber items, but I am convinced they won't make the same mistake that Mythic did with ToA.

Secondly, sure you can powerlevel in WoW. Macroing/camping/multiing or whatever. With imagination, the will and technology you can do this in every CRPG. And you'll always get people that do. Daocs problem was a set of really poor design decisions (bots, ToA, artifacts) basically turned all of thier customers into powerlevellers, since powerlevelling/botting was the only realistic way to do these things without going insane (especially on multiple toons.) So, you can PL in WoW, but you don't really need too, and its still fun if you don't

Sure WoW might go the same way as DaoC, but I seriously doubt it. Blizzard have got eyes, and realise that by designing a game built around removing the biggest flaws of its 2 largest competetitors (EQ/DaoC) it will attract players from both of those games away in large numbers. And I am confident they will stay away from sadistically grindy PvE (which is what really, really turns ppl off MMORPGs these days, and why buffbots and macroing are seen as part of all MMORPG).

So, to recap. WoW 2k4 is not like Daoc 2k4, which is why I like WoW. I would definately play Daoc again if Mythic fixed the stuff that I feel is broke. But it appears they don't really care about PvE, since they all seem to think we have access to buffbots, lvl50 toons, vast amounts of plats, CMs etc..etc..

Heres a challenge for people. Fire up Daoc, roll a brand new character give him 0 gold and 0 twinkage, and play the game for 2 hours. Now do the same in WoW. Then come back and tell me WoW isn't anything other than massively superior MMORPG.....

 

[Helme]

Heres a challenge for people. Fire up Daoc, roll a brand new character give him 0 gold and 0 twinkage, and play the game for 2 hours. Now do the same in WoW. Then come back and tell me WoW isn't anything other than massively superior MMORPG.....

Do that, in 1-2 years in WoW and see how fun you will have. When you done it twice or alot more times it ofcourse gets dull.

 

[Chesnox]

Do that, in 1-2 years in WoW and see how fun you will have. When you done it twice or alot more times it ofcourse gets dull.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. My point is its slow, whereas WoW is fast. To me, slow grind is boring. And Daoc is always slow. Exp is slow, MLs are slow, lvling artis is slow, scroll farming is slow. Its a game designed to retain its customers by giving them really slow things to do, unless you get a bb ofc which will speed it up! Hey and you can even drag it to RvR because they're conc buffs, which will speed up those RPs of course!

Who knows, WoW might burn brightly for a yr or so, then burn out since its players are bored. But I am not looking for a long term MMORPG to play, I just want one to play now that is more fun that Daoc...

 

[Necroscope]

Cant really say I agree , teh grind is there in WoW aswell , but in the open beta it was over shined by the fact that its a new game. Its exciting , new etc etc. AND quest's feels like disguise for just getting out there and bash mobs (in the early levels -20).

And regarding MLs/Arti's/XP it will get easier and it even have in some extinct this patch

 

[Rustane]

Heres a challenge for people. Fire up Daoc, roll a brand new character give him 0 gold and 0 twinkage, and play the game for 2 hours. Now do the same in WoW. Then come back and tell me WoW isn't anything other than massively superior MMORPG.....

Ahh .. so its how far you get with a brand new char in 2 hours that determines what game is best ?
Daoc still has the best pvp system imo .. and as i always say: if you wanna be casual you should suffer, if you want to be uber you gotta put in the blood and the time .. or it will be worth nothing.
If anyone would be able to get ml10 items in 2mins I would get depressed and quit the game. I believe that if an item is very good it should be very very very very hard to get.

 

[Ctuchik]

I believe that if an item is very good it should be very very very very hard to get.

and u can get every "uber" item in the game with 2 fg... thats not very very very very very hard imo...

by very hard, im thinking dragon hard at game launch.... near impossible even...

 

[Chesnox]

Cant really say I agree , teh grind is there in WoW aswell , but in the open beta it was over shined by the fact that its a new game. Its exciting , new etc etc. AND quest's feels like disguise for just getting out there and bash mobs (in the early levels -20).

And regarding MLs/Arti's/XP it will get easier and it even have in some extinct this patch

Not really. It is less grindy, full stop. Its easier to solo, there is less downtime, there are options to craft at low levels which are not horrible time and money sinks, and which give crafted items you can actually use in those levels.

As for MLs/Artis/XP getting easier, its a small change in the bigger picture. Scroll drop rates havn't been upped, free levels won't affect artifact levelling and most MLs have only been tweaked. ML3 will still be as horrid as it has ever been (almost), even if you realm can get enough ppl together to actually do it.

Ahh .. so its how far you get with a brand new char in 2 hours that determines what game is best ?
Daoc still has the best pvp system imo .. and as i always say: if you wanna be casual you should suffer, if you want to be uber you gotta put in the blood and the time .. or it will be worth nothing.
If anyone would be able to get ml10 items in 2mins I would get depressed and quit the game. I believe that if an item is very good it should be very very very very hard to get.

I kinda agree that any MMORPG needs to have a process by which you develop and equip your character, and that process should take time to make the reward feel worthwhile. But the measure of a game is how much fun you have in that process. Only the most masochistic will claim Daoc is fun when on the PvE grind. WoW is undoubtedly more fun in the PvE stages in my opinion, and not just because its new and shiney. It is fun for me, because I can craft without sitting at a forge all day spending all my coin making armour I can't use. Its fun because I don't get any downtime. It's fun because I havn't got to pimp around town for hrs trying to find a group just to progress. Its fun because it doesn't have all the things I hate about Daoc.

 

[Awarkle]

Well when i first played daoc i would say the levels from 1 to 35 were the most fun after 35 it sort of settled down to the grind Kill x number of mobs = ding.

Crafting i cant see the fun of crafting past 700+ the only way i managed that was with a trilogy which i read while crafting. The problem is mythic need to improve the fun factor and growth of characters and crafting has become almost non existant as a means for equipment.

I suspect that the next expansion after catacombs will be crafting improvments i know crafting isnt everyones cup of tea but they need to seriously work on how crafting works. Although by then i might feel its going to be a bit late for some of us i know im growing bored of exping / leveling artifacts / rvr but rvr boredom is down to the stupid cast speeds/resist rates/ and the /assist OMG assist choo choo that people keep using.

Might go over to WoW i might stay im sort of waiting on general responce to catacombs from the US then ill decide.

 

[Bellona]

with a site around called http://www.blizzhackers.com

I wont even bother playing wow, it will just end up as d2 with a hack for every possible thing in the game.

played beta too, didnt like it.

daoc is just way better :worthy:

 

[old.Osy]

I have quit EU daoc pre-toa, because I found the expansion utterly abnoxious and shite. Never looked back, no regrets and no remorse. Daoc just stopped being the game I liked, when toa was introduced.

I will be joining EU wow when it hits us. Played the US stress test, and I found it FUN. And that's all a game needs to be, to attract me. FUN.


Murphys Law, old speeding dorf, dead and burried.

 

[Necroscope]

Not really. It is less grindy, full stop. Its easier to solo, there is less downtime, there are options to craft at low levels which are not horrible time and money sinks, and which give crafted items you can actually use in those levels.

If its less grindy I guess is from person to person to have their say about. I didnt think it was less grindy but like I said in previous post its disguised into quests(I dont like quests). It maybe dont seem grindy just because its in a different package.

Ofc its also depends on what you liking is in a game , PvE , RvR etc.

For the casual players I think it will be great but for the the hardcore players my guess is that it will be a dissipointment after the new and shiny have faded.

I wont even bother with WoW , I had enough after the Beta's

 

[Necroscope]

I have quit EU daoc pre-toa, because I found the expansion utterly abnoxious and shite. Never looked back, no regrets and no remorse. Daoc just stopped being the game I liked, when toa was introduced.

Up to everyone to think what they think , but I really cant see how you can QQ about an expansion you havent even played

 

[Hansmoleman]

Up to everyone to think what they think , but I really cant see how you can QQ about an expansion you havent even played

thats what happens when you listen to the americans they whinge about everything

 

[RaiztliN]

Crafting in WoW > DAoC by miles
PvP/RvR in DAoC > WoW by miles^2
PvE sucks anyway - quests are boring and the group bonus you get in wow seems to be very low?

Though might give it a shot, but I'll still play DAoC for sure..

 

[Dorin]

Crafting in WoW > DAoC by miles
PvP/RvR in DAoC > WoW by miles^2
PvE sucks anyway - quests are boring and the group bonus you get in wow seems to be very low?

Though might give it a shot, but I'll still play DAoC for sure..

yup sort of (though current daoc pvp sux if you dont like zergs imo :O)

xp gets lowered in wow a bit too much if you grp up, but the instance dungeons give nice sum of xp + add elite quests / wanted: xxx thingies, which you prolly cant do solo at the lvl you get them. Doing those is sort of fun and give worhtwhile rewards and xperience tbh

but same shit with wow pve, doing quests will get boring also. Though on the other hand, they are easy, more fun and alot faster/rewarding then daoc quests will ever get tbh (at least in current wow, blizzard might do the same mistake as mythic did with making crafting/questing almost pointless due to toa artifacts mainly weapons.)

crafting well, easy-fast-fun (yea i found collecting things from nature is more challenging then sitting at a forge and buying shit from a merchant), not time - money sinker as in daoc atm. Even iam crafting in WoW, never ever did in daoc xpect on my first char till i hit 125 and went ooc(outofcash) + was boring like hell.

 

[Vesuvius]

i'll be going to WoW

best times i ever had in DAoC was when i was a new player. learnings half the fun. even if the RvR aint to crash hot atm in WoW, i'm sure it'll improve and advance over the years.

i'm looking forward to a new challenge.

 

[Treon]

If u ask me if wow is better then daoc, i would say it is. But if u compare WoW with daoc pre toa id say no, Daoc Pre toa was just uber tobad they had to destroy the game with toa and NF imo.

 

[old.Osy]

Up to everyone to think what they think , but I really cant see how you can QQ about an expansion you havent even played

ToA is a big money and time sink, exactly what DaoC needed to keep the players glued to the game. It's all marketing, the concept of FUN wasn't taken into consideration when ToA was planned down.

As to your question, I have people playing ToA next to me from the first day it was launched. I think I can form an opinion based on looking at their display, seeing how hours and days are spent into MLs and scrolls. PvE was never something I liked, but merely accepted it as a needed evil.

ToA however, kicked the bucket with PvE. If you're ok with spending months with getting artis and scrolls, and doing MLs, well, then you must like PvE. I don't. I was in daoc for RvR, and for the FUN around it. When that died, daoc died for me.

 

[Deepfat]

Like the majority of "casual" players I disliked toa intensely. Before toa I had four level 50s in decent enough gear to RvR in which they pretty much payed for whilst levelling to 50. Post toa I had none. I felt like suddenly someone had pulled the carpet from under my feet in all honesty. I simply couldn't be bothered to invest the time to get them all up to the "new standard" in order to keep them competitive.

Personally it's my beleif that once a character hits top level then that's it there should be no more PvE. Not ever. At all. You've hit the top level now go take on some human players and learn what the character really does. I discovered more about most of my level 50s in DaoC in two weeks of RvR than I did in 3 months or so of PvE to get them to 50.

I find the idea that "I spent more time here I deserve to win for the time I put in" is, to me at least, completely a carebear system. There are players who are simply better at the class they play and the game itself and they are handicapped by systems like this in all honesty. I used to play UT at clan level and it took me alot of hours to make that sort of level of skill and the amount I needed to play to maintain that level of performance was alot higher than majority of players in my clan. The point being is that, while it's nice to be rewarded for the time you put in, in actuality alot of lifes winners don't put the time in since they are simply better at their chosen vacation than others around them. Sure, I'm harsh, but I'm a salesman by trade and I know I keep my job by being better than 25% of the workforce and I get repect by being better than 75% of same.

For the record I am going to WoW. I've no intention of playing any kind of beta version before full release. Most of the best times I spent in DoaC were learning the game itself and seeing new things every day. If I get stuck online waiting for groups at "uber xp spot xxx" I'll quit. I like to level in PvE but I like varied PvE with a decent challenge level.

Prolly I'll get flamed for this sort of post but it's the way I am I guess

 

[Flimgoblin]

Nf kinda redressed the balance on that - don't need to have a fully opted set of armour to do something in NF now - you won't get flattened by a ml10 gank group the moment you leave the PK.

Sure they give you an edge and new powers and stuff (and individually you're more dangerous) but the move away from fg ganking lessens that - you can use other peoples power fonts, get resist pierce from someone else's cloudsong charge etc.

 

[Malcolm]

I'm still enjoying DAOC (I like the guild I'm in and am not obsessed with templates & artis) so, although I've got WOW Euro on pre-order, I'll still be continuing with DAOC for the time being.

In fact, I'm spending xmas & newyear with the inlaws in the US and I'll be picking up TOA & Catas for my US account and reactivating that account for a while too on my return

 

[Bracken]

Nf kinda redressed the balance on that - don't need to have a fully opted set of armour to do something in NF now - you won't get flattened by a ml10 gank group the moment you leave the PK.

Sure they give you an edge and new powers and stuff (and individually you're more dangerous) but the move away from fg ganking lessens that - you can use other peoples power fonts, get resist pierce from someone else's cloudsong charge etc.

Aye it's much more accessible now. It's actually much more like the very early days of DAOC where it didn't really matter what gear, class, spec or to a certain extent level you were - once you had done a certain amount of levelling you could go and join in rvr, contribute and have some fun. The idea of optimised gank groups didn't come in to DAOC until a few patches in.

The main issues now stem from 2 things. Firstly populations - which has been talked about to death. Secondly people's own perceptions about the game and what it should be. Those who played in optimised gank groups got more satisfaction from fighting and winning as a fg than they did in large scale fights, so to them that's what they want from the game. Most of those players however would have been more than happy in the very early days being involved in the large scale fights. It's just that having then enjoyed the experience of fg battles and victories over a long period of time the idea of returning to a game of large scale battles (particularly with population differences) just doesn't appeal to them - which is fair enough.

Personally I've always enjoyed both, which makes it easy to adjust now that the game has in some ways reverted to those very early days. RvR now can be enjoyed by the average casual gamer when the numbers are out, whereas for a while after TOA it was pretty hellish for those people (and I include myself in there). It's accessible again. Does that mean that enough people will stay / join the game to make up for those who leave? To be honest I think in the long term it will depend on how mythic deals with the problem of low population realms. For large scale battles to work there has to be reasonable realm balance. If they can resolve that then DAOC can be the game that it always promised to be on the box - a mmorpg with true realm versus realm battles. While that doesn't appeal to everyone, my feeling is that it's what the average casual gamer (the ones who make up the often silent majority) will enjoy the most - and that's what keeps a game running.

 

[Ctuchik]

In fact, I'm spending xmas & newyear with the inlaws in the US and I'll be picking up TOA & Catas for my US account and reactivating that account for a while too on my return

givf!! i wanna play catacombs to

 

[SkarIronfist]

I read a couple of interviews with Frior and Jacobs who admitted that they had made some serious mistakes with TOA.

I mean on paper, artifacts which have their own levels and powers sounds brilliant. But you then take into account, the learning required, obtaining, leveling etc. Players wanting all the best things and it turns into a nightmare.

I think in hindsight that Master Levels and Artifacts would have been better coming a year apart, separate upgrades.

Re NF, its Mythics best update. The FG vs FG+ is still there, you just have to be prepared to run away and not get swamped sometimes.

Also zergs are handy for players to join and feel protected in, being part of the realm, not just a food group for opted teams.

 

[Necroscope]

ToA is a big money and time sink, exactly what DaoC needed to keep the players glued to the game. It's all marketing, the concept of FUN wasn't taken into consideration when ToA was planned down.

As to your question, I have people playing ToA next to me from the first day it was launched. I think I can form an opinion based on looking at their display, seeing how hours and days are spent into MLs and scrolls. PvE was never something I liked, but merely accepted it as a needed evil.

ToA however, kicked the bucket with PvE. If you're ok with spending months with getting artis and scrolls, and doing MLs, well, then you must like PvE. I don't. I was in daoc for RvR, and for the FUN around it. When that died, daoc died for me.

Still not understand tbh , Ive been writing it before in this post and I will write it again....You dont have to be ml10 and have 7 artifacts to play this game. Many have that perception especially the casual players who think its all in the equipment. Its have its advantages ofc but it not everything.

No pain no gain....even tho I also feel that getting certain things is a timesink and crap boring.

 

[Bracken]

Still not understand tbh , Ive been writing it before in this post and I will write it again....You dont have to be ml10 and have 7 artifacts to play this game. Many have that perception especially the casual players who think its all in the equipment. Its have its advantages ofc but it not everything.

No pain no gain....even tho I also feel that getting certain things is a timesink and crap boring.

Yes but the problem with rvr in TOA pre-NF was that some groups chose to completely maximise everything, which of course was their right if they were lucky enough to have the time in real life to do so. They then preyed on groups that weren't maximised (usually because those involved simply had neither the time nor the inclination to get 6 lev 10 artifacts as well as all mls done before daring to rvr). This meant that the non-max groups ended up losing virtually every fight - even when they had the basic set up and RAs right. Anyone who remembers NP roaming between AMG and ATK just a few weeks after TOA came out will understand that. The hard core gank groups set the standard and it was up to everyone else who played the game to keep up or basically avoid any meaningful RvR. NF reverses that.

 

[SkarIronfist]

I personally think the biggest advantage you can have in RVR is having the whole team on ventrilo/teamspeak etc. Its a massive time/life saver.

 

[Loosey]

I'm not moving to WoW because (in no particular order):

A lot of the txt-speaking l337 kiddies are f**king off to WoW, and I think DAOC will be much better off without them.

WoW looks like a Hanna-Barbera cartoon. I don't want to spend hours a day playing in something out of Wile E. Coyote's backyard.

I have too much time invested in DAOC to quit it for anything that I'm not 100% sure would be a lot better.

I have too many friends in-game and have a really nice fun guild full of people I would miss too much.


...having said that, I am going to check out EQ2.

...

im staying because Svartmetall is.. what a great community we'd be left with if all the toss-wanks left for WoW.. infact i hope they all delete and sell theyre accounts... all the Fotm rollers will leave thank god... maybe finally i can get around to finding some arties uncamped and ready for the taking looking at the poll so far it would seem most of the kids will leave.. which is always a good thing.. and most of the gankg groups will leave.. (do they still exist?) i like NF... i like the fighting style... and imo the lag is caused by all the whiners typing "ffs zerging albs lagging the server" at the same time
2000 people + typing the same sentence + at the same time = dead server!!

there you go lag problems solved!! all bugger off to WoW and leave us grumpy DAOCer's in peace!! now remove camlann and replace with CO-op server!!

 

[gervaise]

Playing WoW at the moment reminds me of the very early days of DAoC when it was launched in Europe and folks were able to stealth past the guards and attcak the newbie areas. It happened on Pryd anyway.

In WoW if u turn the World channel on you get a very steady stream of messages that <xxxx> is under attack. We are talking newbie areas and Horde attackers who have come some way. Stormwind itself was under attack last night.

This on a PvE server! Sounds like HomeInvasion to me. !

Looking at the population numbers though I don't think DAoC will be an option when I return from the US. Low populations are the pits. Its why I left. Now peak populations are getting to the point at which I found life unexciting.

So I reckon I will be staying with WoW (and possibly CoH which, in its own way, is a lot of fun.)

 

[Vasconcelos]

DAOC on early patches had the same taste than WoW has now