Caster damage, melee damage

[Kalidur]

just remove the ability to MoC from all LT casters, including how locks and BD's work.

or make it so any form of MoC stops the LT from returning HP

 

[Bubble]

MoC3 and Lifetap doesn't heal against a Light Tank Banelord.

If you wish to double casting speeds, why not HALF all movement rates

 

[noaim]

at high RR's I'd agree.

At low RR's casters obliterate things unless there's a banelord around in which case casters are useless. Too much at either extreme imo, reduce interrupts and reduce damage or cast speed.

Dont you understand that casters are visible assassins kinda, they have to kill fast to kill at all, or they will be interrupted. Reduce their damage and they will be useless. If you play well, you can take a caster out, if he mocs there are demo, zou, debuffs to make him useless in moc. If the caster plays well he will however be free for a little while now and then and will probably kill something then. Exactly how it should be.

 

[Howley]

the way i see it is...EVERY!!! class can be killed, its all about who u need and wat spec. BDs can be killed by voidies/fire wiz, WL's can be killed by assassins, etc..etc..etc..QQ..etc
soz to say, its true guys, imo dont focus on wat we can handle atm...focus on wat we cant => let goa/mythic solve the xml/lag/wat eva, instead of just moaning to each other (just like i am also to u guys atm )


so...who wants to show love ?? mmk <3
end of the day...kill or be killed, use tactics in ur grps, DR will bring a change to the set grp setups imo..seen as all chars have the option or interupt casters easily...but then again casters will have shields + styles...hm

 

[Bubble]

I cry when my MoC3 Lifetaps nuke for 100 every 4 seconds against a zerker who just charged through all my crowd control

 

[Eradicate]

caster vs tank = pretty balanced. On one hand you have moc/casting spd/casting dmg/ability to kite vs tanks/BG on the other hand you have low hp & af targets/banelord interupts.

the only unbalance at the moment is SM intercept rate + BD with physical defence and pet healers ...either reduce healing rate of their pets, remove physical defence or weaken the champion commander so it can be killed alot easier. (not to speak of dmg output when its ml10)

 

[confused]

I think a nice solution would be to just decrease *all* game damage, by say 30%? Keep everything else (including heals) the same.

Fights happen way too fast at the moment unless the groups are very balanced opponents. Lowering all damage would be a small nerf to casters as it would allow extra time for someone to interupt them, but I think that's fine. In return melee damage against them would be less. For me the best fights are the long ones, so anything that can 'slow' a fight down is good in my book.

Sounds wowish :S

 

[confused]

What's with all the MoC? a good caster wont even have MoC if you ask me.

agreed....

 

[Urgluf]

MoC3 and Lifetap doesn't heal against a Light Tank Banelord.

If you wish to double casting speeds, why not HALF all movement rates

hi bg pet

 

[Ogen]

Just nerf sm pets plus make the sm nuke, baseline. Warlocks dont need to be commented. Remove any uninteruptable interupting spell on any dmg dealing caster. Wouldnt mind making moc cancel the lifegain, if not else then just to see horner /DELETE

 

[mikke]

3 lighttanks on Remisk, ½ second till death.


soo, same with casters really, 3 casters free nukeing, stuff will(and should) die.

ehm, 3 stlthers on you, you moc. you win.. and 3 you's on a slthter stlther dont got any OP imba abillity, and you still win.. uber ballanced indeed..

 

[Outlander]

casters need damage nerfed! warlocks need chambers nerfed! SMs need intercept crap nerfed! tanks need more melee damage! :touch:

 

[noaim]

ehm, 3 stlthers on you, you moc. you win.. and 3 you's on a slthter stlther dont got any OP imba abillity, and you still win.. uber ballanced indeed..

If 3 stealthers dies to 1 runemaster because he mocs, I wouldnt blame it on casters being overpowered, but on those 3 stealthers sucking horsecock.

 

[remi]

ehm, 3 stlthers on you, you moc. you win.. and 3 you's on a slthter stlther dont got any OP imba abillity, and you still win.. uber ballanced indeed..

runemaster dont have lifetap, i would die just as fast, no moc in the world would save me, mmk?

 

[Arumos]

ehm, 3 stlthers on you, you moc. you win.. and 3 you's on a slthter stlther dont got any OP imba abillity, and you still win.. uber ballanced indeed..

please, please, don't try and make out an rm is op. like remi said getting moc on an rm itsn't worth it, if u are interupted to the point where u need to use it 9/10 u will be getting attacked by a tank at this point anyway so u will die. MOC imo is only OP when a pbaoe class or LT class has the option of speccing for it.

and to combat moc LTers, stealthers do get mezz poison, disease, vanish? not hard if u know how to play your class well and have the tools at your disposle. yes moc is overpowered but thats only because half of the people that come against moc shit themselves and bash their keyboards.

 

[Sollac]

lifetap is the problem.....make it so you dont do damage if your at full health ...

remove all instant spells and i mean all...

now if you was a caster irl (step out of the box) and i shovel my shield in your face...you reckon you would still be able to cast? i think not.....

add some realism to melee combat...

 

[Flimgoblin]

Dont you understand that casters are visible assassins kinda, they have to kill fast to kill at all, or they will be interrupted. Reduce their damage and they will be useless. If you play well, you can take a caster out, if he mocs there are demo, zou, debuffs to make him useless in moc. If the caster plays well he will however be free for a little while now and then and will probably kill something then. Exactly how it should be.

I'd say it works at high rr/mls - banelords to counter the casters, moc to counter the bzillion interrupts (but you're still casting slower and at 25% reduction in damage and it's only for 30s)

I don't think it works at low RR because the banelords have no counter and your healers can't cast anymore either, doesn't work at low MLs/for groups without a banelord because there's no banelord to screw up the caster in the first place

Remove banelord interrupts (keep the effects) and I'd be a happy bunny, but also scale the top end of caster damage/cast speed/whatever down a bit to stop the twinked out ubernukers being _quite_ so evil - should still be better than a non twinked out ubernuker of course (diminishing returns are a good thing, caps not quite so good)

That way you don't always need moc3 to cast in a fight and you don't get instantly vaporised by a caster because you don't have a banelord in your group.

(of course if you _do_ have the banelord there's still the nice cast speed debuff, pbaoe damage, snares etc. - the effects of the spells rather than just the interrupts - to help out and if you do have MoC it means that shaman spamming disease/aoe root on you won't be interrupting now - after all it'd be a bit silly if getting these abilities did nothing but it's a bit silly being unable to do anything a lot of the time without these RA/MLs)

 

[noaim]

I'd say it works at high rr/mls - banelords to counter the casters, moc to counter the bzillion interrupts (but you're still casting slower and at 25% reduction in damage and it's only for 30s)

I don't think it works at low RR because the banelords have no counter and your healers can't cast anymore either, doesn't work at low MLs/for groups without a banelord because there's no banelord to screw up the caster in the first place

Remove banelord interrupts (keep the effects) and I'd be a happy bunny, but also scale the top end of caster damage/cast speed/whatever down a bit to stop the twinked out ubernukers being _quite_ so evil - should still be better than a non twinked out ubernuker of course (diminishing returns are a good thing, caps not quite so good)

That way you don't always need moc3 to cast in a fight and you don't get instantly vaporised by a caster because you don't have a banelord in your group.

(of course if you _do_ have the banelord there's still the nice cast speed debuff, pbaoe damage, snares etc. - the effects of the spells rather than just the interrupts - to help out and if you do have MoC it means that shaman spamming disease/aoe root on you won't be interrupting now - after all it'd be a bit silly if getting these abilities did nothing but it's a bit silly being unable to do anything a lot of the time without these RA/MLs)

So basically you wanna make the game easier than it is?

 

[Deepflame]

The only thing I don't like is casters nuking me to death before I know I'm being nuked. Other than that, I think the idea behind casters is ok. They're the artillery of the realm, after all.

 

[fettoken]

I'd say it works at high rr/mls - banelords to counter the casters, moc to counter the bzillion interrupts (but you're still casting slower and at 25% reduction in damage and it's only for 30s)

I don't think it works at low RR because the banelords have no counter and your healers can't cast anymore either, doesn't work at low MLs/for groups without a banelord because there's no banelord to screw up the caster in the first place

Remove banelord interrupts (keep the effects) and I'd be a happy bunny, but also scale the top end of caster damage/cast speed/whatever down a bit to stop the twinked out ubernukers being _quite_ so evil - should still be better than a non twinked out ubernuker of course (diminishing returns are a good thing, caps not quite so good)

That way you don't always need moc3 to cast in a fight and you don't get instantly vaporised by a caster because you don't have a banelord in your group.

(of course if you _do_ have the banelord there's still the nice cast speed debuff, pbaoe damage, snares etc. - the effects of the spells rather than just the interrupts - to help out and if you do have MoC it means that shaman spamming disease/aoe root on you won't be interrupting now - after all it'd be a bit silly if getting these abilities did nothing but it's a bit silly being unable to do anything a lot of the time without these RA/MLs)

Couldnt be arsed to read through the whole lot, but i agree that there is far too many interupts that can make your day to a living hell, tho high rr casters with very high dex, about 400 tend to be able to cast even tho theyr getting hit at occasionaly.

 

[Ballard]

Couldnt be arsed to read through the whole lot, but i agree that there is far too many interupts that can make your day to a living hell, tho high rr casters with very high dex, about 400 tend to be able to cast even tho theyr getting hit at occasionaly.

I honestly dont think so. Doesnt matter what RR you are or how much dex you have. When you get hit you have a second or two of being interupted. Some people just use that time better than others.

The only thing id really like to see at the moment is the 2.5/2.6 delve spells being slowed down .1 or .2 seconds to 2.7/2.8 seconds but that is not because of tank / caster balance but rather single spec heal versus DD balance

 

[Listerine]

lifetap is the problem.....make it so you dont do damage if your at full health ...

remove all instant spells and i mean all...

now if you was a caster irl (step out of the box) and i shovel my shield in your face...you reckon you would still be able to cast? i think not.....

add some realism to melee combat...

magic is not real

 

[Dakkath]

As far as I can see from my perspective as a light tank, it's not that casters are overpowered in FG v FG, its actually that grp tanks make them OP...

There are two abilities I would personally like to see removed from game: BG & Grapple. IMO the most OP of these being grapple.

There's nothing worse than charing down a nuker only to be grappled and helpless while a nuker takes two steps back and killy you so damn fast your head spins. Being pinned down. Be unable to do a sodding thing other than the odd caster interrupt on a very limited reuse timer (usually being the time it takes a caster to get 3 casts off) is only ever going to end badly.

Facing a BG'd caster is never fun but at least you can disengage and work on another target, while praying that the caster is working on nuking someone else.

 

[Vilje]

Just nerf sm pets plus make the sm nuke, baseline. Warlocks dont need to be commented. Remove any uninteruptable interupting spell on any dmg dealing caster. Wouldnt mind making moc cancel the lifegain, if not else then just to see horner /DELETE

Well, sure, if u make the spiritmaster lifetap baseline, I could go back to spec supp and be happy about it. Note that there is already a baseline darkness nuke, which is the same for all midgards casters exept warlocks. But what would one get from the darkness specline? A spec dd instead perhaps? Cause else the only thing one would gain from darkness spec is aoe and pbaoe mezz + aoe dex qui debuff .. which would make another sm specline useless in rvr (summoning).

I agree that the sm-pets intercept can be a pain for tanks, but what should we get to compensate our loss? I mean, sometimes it intercepts, and sometimes not at all. To quote so many others: "All classes have their advantages and disadvantages".

My pov is that something must be done so tanks can be stopped the regular way, by CC ( for more than 5 seconds that is )

 

[Vilje]

About the moc issue.

The only situation where I personally find that my lifetap saves me/I gain hp from it/it keeps me from dieing, is when my pet intercepts several hits in a one-on-one fight and I manage to get a LT through. I don't currently use moc myself, but I have tried it some time ago. Moc proved to be "not as useful" in fg vs fg or larger scale combat compared to other RA's/passives. This, because of the damage reduction moc brings in itself and add red resists -And of course CC and other stuff that can counter it. Imo anyways.

However, it was allright to have around when fighting multiple stealthers or similar. Or 1on1's. But I'd still pick passives and other ra's above moc even for this purpose, purely for the damage increase. And remember there is abilities/tricks to counter moc.

What I mean is that personally I rarely find myself in a situation where the hp I gain from lifetapping saves my chars life ( happens in 1on1's mostly). It is nuke or be nuked, nuke or be killed. As a general rule, I will either be at full hp or else I will be dead, just like any other caster.

 

[Bubble]

ehm, 3 stlthers on you, you moc. you win.. and 3 you's on a slthter stlther dont got any OP imba abillity, and you still win.. uber ballanced indeed..

Unlikely
If the stealthers DO there job correctly, i wouldn't stand a chance. (you know, PA +CD instead of unstealth and try hitting me unstyled)

 

[remi]

As far as I can see from my perspective as a light tank, it's not that casters are overpowered in FG v FG, its actually that grp tanks make them OP...

There are two abilities I would personally like to see removed from game: BG & Grapple. IMO the most OP of these being grapple.

There's nothing worse than charing down a nuker only to be grappled and helpless while a nuker takes two steps back and killy you so damn fast your head spins. Being pinned down. Be unable to do a sodding thing other than the odd caster interrupt on a very limited reuse timer (usually being the time it takes a caster to get 3 casts off) is only ever going to end badly.

Facing a BG'd caster is never fun but at least you can disengage and work on another target, while praying that the caster is working on nuking someone else.

yea, agree.

 

[Brite]

please, please, don't try and make out an rm is op. like remi said getting moc on an rm itsn't worth it, if u are interupted to the point where u need to use it 9/10 u will be getting attacked by a tank at this point anyway so u will die. MOC imo is only OP when a pbaoe class or LT class has the option of speccing for it.

and to combat moc LTers, stealthers do get mezz poison, disease, vanish? not hard if u know how to play your class well and have the tools at your disposle. yes moc is overpowered but thats only because half of the people that come against moc shit themselves and bash their keyboards.

disease doesnt affect lifetap by the way

 

[snushanen]

The only thing I don't like is casters nuking me to death before I know I'm being nuked. Other than that, I think the idea behind casters is ok. They're the artillery of the realm, after all.

Then this war is being fought with only artilery and spies

 

[Falukropp]

1: Make all non damaging ae spells non interrupting.

2: Remove the lifetap component of lifetap dd:s when using MoC, letting them work as regular dd:s. Raise MoC3 dmg to 100% delve.

3: Slowly, step by step, lower the overall damage output in the game, raise hits, defense, or whatever that makes it take longer to kill someone until a balance is found.