Asylum Seekers; Yay or Nay?

[Bodhi]

I agree but I don't live in a society like that anymore and next year if I am sucessful I won't have to come back to it ever... Sweden isn't perfect what country is but they seem to be getting most of the basics right.

No, you live in a society that is happily taking an extra 40,000 refugees when they have 30,000 of their own that would probably prefer they were looked after first. Don't know about anyone else, but if I was one of those 30,000 I'd be pretty pissed off.

Also interesting to see that the utopia that is Sweden have more homeless people as a proportion of the population than we do. But I thought Sweden was the land of milk and honey?

 

[Yoni]

You are a minority in actual terms but a majority in statement terms since that majority of those who say such things would probably look for ways to decrease their tax liabilities via loopholes etc which is easy enough in the UK which isn't like the Nordic countries when it comes to tax, although I know enough people from them who bitch about tax rates like other people....especially Norwegians.

when tax rates are discussed socially in my social groups and with colleagues there is no moaning, infact most of my colleagues and friends also pay a taxation towards the upkeep of the churches (not mandatory)... My colleague today who is 29 told me it was because he wanted the Swedish churches to continue to look beautiful...

 

[Job]

But this isn't a Islam issue.

It couldn't be more of an Islamic issue, if they were white skinned, western style Christians the US would have carpet bombed a path out of Syria and laid roses down for them to stroll out.
People are wary of all muslims...there is a great reservation about allowing Turkey in and tbh by the time they get around to it, Turkey might be overun by Isis.

 

[Bodhi]

My in laws are Scandinavian. They love the level of taxes so much they now live over here. They don't appear to be alone either......

 

[Gwadien]

Turkey might be overun by Isis.

lol

 

[Yoni]

No, you live in a society that is happily taking an extra 40,000 refugees when they have 30,000 of their own that would probably prefer they were looked after first. Don't know about anyone else, but if I was one of those 30,000 I'd be pretty pissed off.

Also interesting to see that the utopia that is Sweden have more homeless people as a proportion of the population than we do. But I thought Sweden was the land of milk and honey?

As I said it isn't perfect. The homeless and how to support them is a debate that is occurring constantly. As individuals you can do quite a lot to help them.. However the bigger debate is the influx of Romanians who are putting a lot of pressure not only on the homeless shelters but they have also started selling their own version of the big issue, displacing some of the income that the homeless can earn.

 

[Yoni]

My in laws are Scandinavian. They love the level of taxes so much they now live over here. They don't appear to be alone either......

Ehum which country in Scandinavia..... Taxation does vary here

 

[Job]

lol

Oh yes, how ridiculous, Turkey itself is in the middle of an unofficial war with itself over secularism against fundamentalist Islam...if Isis are banging on the door, start undermining tourism with terrorism, who knows that a coup couldn't happen, who's side is the army on?

 

[Bodhi]

Ehum which country in Scandinavia..... Taxation does vary here

Norway. Lovely country, but taxation takes the piss.

 

[Embattle]

It couldn't be more of an Islamic issue, if they were white skinned, western style Christians the US would have carpet bombed a path out of Syria and laid roses down for them to stroll out.
People are wary of all muslims...there is a great reservation about allowing Turkey in and tbh by the time they get around to it, Turkey might be overun by Isis.

I work with plenty of Muslims and can't say I've ever been wary of them, although 1 exception to that was one who came from Madagascar via France and he seemed a bit of a nut job although all the other Muslims thought his was rather extreme and an idiot who didn't understand anything about true Islam.

Turkey really isn't going to get overrun with Isis, it would be very hard and a rather big mistake.

 

[DaGaffer]

Right, just so I know, people dying in our own streets is different / less important than people dying on Syrian streets?

Please remember the context of my post - across social media, the uneducated bandwagon jumpers are like "ZOMFG DEAD CHILD" without ever giving two shites about people lying in their own street.

Also, another comment about the social media armchair philanthropists - are you going to give up your spare bedroom to a couple of migrants? I didn't think so, so you want people to help, but as long as it's not you.

Being blunt about it, compared to what's going on in the middle east, homelessness in the UK is barely an issue. Right now there are about 12,000 on the streets, and probably half that number have the ability to get a roof over their heads right now if they want it. Is 12,000 too many, maybe, but out of a population of 64,000,000, 0.02% of the population is probably the kind of noise in the system you're always going to have, and its not like homelessness in the UK doesn't have a lot of charities working the problem all the time, that doesn't go away if we start taking in more refugees, its not a binary thing.

 

[Job]

I work with plenty of Muslims and can't say I've ever been wary of them, although 1 exception to that was one who came from Madagascar via France and he seemed a bit of a nut job although all the other Muslims thought his was rather extreme and an idiot who didn't understand anything about true Islam.

Turkey really isn't going to get overrun with Isis, it would be very hard and a rather big mistake.

They wouldn't attack, these things are done from within, divide and conquer, allready we are hearing solid evidence that Turkey has been supplying arms to Isis.

 

[Gwadien]

Being blunt about it, compared to what's going on in the middle east, homelessness in the UK is barely an issue. Right now there are about 12,000 on the streets, and probably half that number have the ability to get a roof over their heads right now if they want it. Is 12,000 too many, maybe, but out of a population of 64,000,000, 0.02% of the population is probably the kind of noise in the system you're always going to have, and its not like homelessness in the UK doesn't have a lot of charities working the problem all the time, that doesn't go away if we start taking in more refugees, its not a binary thing.

Yeah but it's better put our hands over our ears and go la-la-la and find other things to focus on, which we don't actually care about either.

 

[Yoni]

Norway. Lovely country, but taxation takes the piss.

In Norway your salary is deducted by 28% and NI of 12% at a basic level top tier is an extra 9% .... So less than the Swedish model at a top level but more is paid at lower levels of income. Social costs paid by the company in Norway are lower ie 14.1% vs 31.32% which means that the social burden in Sweden is on the higher paid and the companies compared to Norway so the individual does suffer a bit more...

 

[Job]

I loved Sweden , but you can't see anything for trees and it seems to be full of lonely men getting drunk.

 

[Bodhi]

Quick question for the German fans - do you think that saying you will accept vast quantities of refugees will stop people dying in the Med trying to get there? And if so, please show your working.

 

[old.user4556]

Being blunt about it, compared to what's going on in the middle east, homelessness in the UK is barely an issue. Right now there are about 12,000 on the streets, and probably half that number have the ability to get a roof over their heads right now if they want it. Is 12,000 too many, maybe, but out of a population of 64,000,000, 0.02% of the population is probably the kind of noise in the system you're always going to have, and its not like homelessness in the UK doesn't have a lot of charities working the problem all the time, that doesn't go away if we start taking in more refugees, its not a binary thing.

I totally agree and that's all fine, as above my beef is with the media particularly social media selectively force feeding as it sees fit.

Anyone remember Joseph Kony "nasty bastard to Children of Uganda"? - this feels oddly similar.

 

[Job]

The father who lost his two sons had been living in Turkey for three years and was trying to get to Canada....how come he has to get in a dinghy? With no life jacket, or even a rope his family together?
He was living in a rich country for three years and decides to recklessly endanger his family to get to Canada, who the fuck would have gotten into such a small boat with small children, when he had safe accomodation in Turkey...the guy is a fucking idiot.

 

[old.user4556]

The father who lost his two sons had been living in Turkey for three years and was trying to get to Canada....how come he has to get in a dinghy? With no life jacket, or even a rope his family together?
He was living in a rich country for three years and decides to recklessly endanger his family to get to Canada, who the fuck would have gotten into such a small boat with small children, when he had safe accomodation in Turkey...the guy is a fucking idiot.

Can you cite some sources / references?

As a general observation, don't let the harsh truth get in the way of an emotional and sensationalising front page.

 

[Gwadien]

Can you cite some sources / references?

As a general observation, don't let the harsh truth get in the way of an emotional and sensationalising front page.

Britainfirstnews.org

I don't think people understand that Turkey hasn't got a great human rights record; I would imagine that them living 'safely' would mean they barely have enough money to allow their family to survive.

 

[Job]

It's an interview with him.

what a pile of bolaks, his application wad rejected because of problems at the Turkish end, he had no refugee status.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/602525/Europe-migrant-crisis-dead-child-washed-up-beach-Turkey

 

[Embattle]

As I said earlier, German altruism isn't exactly without advantages - http://www.economist.com/news/europ...reatively-shrinking-populations-ageing-supple - http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/migration/execsum.pdf

 

[Trem]

Being blunt about it, compared to what's going on in the middle east, homelessness in the UK is barely an issue. Right now there are about 12,000 on the streets, and probably half that number have the ability to get a roof over their heads right now if they want it. Is 12,000 too many, maybe, but out of a population of 64,000,000, 0.02% of the population is probably the kind of noise in the system you're always going to have, and its not like homelessness in the UK doesn't have a lot of charities working the problem all the time, that doesn't go away if we start taking in more refugees, its not a binary thing.

We can look at official homeless figures, that I posted. Then add on that the ones we don't know about plus any illegal immigrants living on the streets. To say half of the official homeless could probably get a roof over there head is the same as me saying half the refugees could probably find a cozy safe place straight away and besides it isn't like there isn't enough charities for them is it?

Going too far the other way with the reasoning on that one in my opinion.



Knew I should of stayed out of this thread.

 

[Moriath]

I am the one propagating this and whilst I lived in the UK I paid tax at the highest rate and would have gladly paid at a rate 2% higher... I now pay tax 15% higher and I don't think in any of my posts on this thread I have complained about that either....

But your wages are higher to compensate.

 

[old.user4556]

We can look at official homeless figures, that I posted. Then add on that the ones we don't know about plus any illegal immigrants living on the streets. To say half of the official homeless could probably get a roof over there head is the same as me saying half the refugees could probably find a cozy safe place straight away and besides it isn't like there isn't enough charities for them is it?

Going too far the other way with the reasoning on that one in my opinion.



Knew I should of stayed out of this thread.

I think you can slice and dice the figures any way you like (including @DaGaffer 's reference), but it doesn't change the basic fact (as you agree) around the knee-jerking by those that didn't give a shit about people on their own streets (dead or not), but suddenly give a shit about Syria because of a dead child on the front of the papers.

 

[Yoni]

But your wages are higher to compensate.

My wages are higher due to promotion and hard work... When I left the NL I actually took a substantial pay cut (change in expat policy in the company I work for)

 

[Moriath]

We have a housing shortage as it is. Need to build houses faster over this green land.

 

[Moriath]

My wages are higher due to promotion and hard work... When I left the NL I actually took a substantial pay cut (change in expat policy in the company I work for)

Your was a general your. People in scandi get paid more for similar jobs to take account for the cost of living being expensive.

 

[Trem]

I also know @Yoni worked her tits off to learn the language.

You know, another thing that shouldn't be taken for granted.

 

[Bodhi]

I see no one took to answering my question. Not that I'm shocked because frankly, Germany are causing just as many issues rolling out the red carpet, as we are by not letting any in.

Like it or not, this is not a UK or a German, or even a European issue - it's global, and we need a global response. The UN, US, everybody needs to get involved. We need to be setting up camps in a safe place near where the refugees are leaving, process them there, then distribute evenly. Everyone needs to take their fair share, but they also need to know who they're taking on.

Economic migrants can go through the proper channels - apply through the Embassy, and if they have skills we need, welcome to Britain.

Then once that is in place, take the Aussie approach to those moving illegally.

Can't say I can see any other way of sorting this out that doesn't involve pissing off half the EU population (trust me the Germans are not all as keen as Merkel and Bayern Munich).