Asylum Seekers; Yay or Nay?

[Raven]

Yeah, its a bit like those people that suffocated on those trucks.

or wait. no.

 

[Job]

I don't need to guess what Job has voted, he's now going on a islamaphobic rant, can you keep it on topic please? - This is about people, not religion.

As for your post about the drought and stuff, yeah, of course, all uprisings have some kind of catalyst, it's not really a secret.

Rise of Communist Russia was due to a famine, it's not really new, it's about having natural disasters and the ruling bodies methods of dealing with it.

Here's a picture from Dewsbury...you gotta laugh.

 

[Bodhi]

The problem I am having with the whole situation is that (as ever), quite a large amount of chancers and opportunists seems to be using this as a perfectly good excuse to head into Europe, find somewhere nice to settle and claim asylum - and sadly, the more TV reports I see on this, the less sympathy I'm having. In the last two days I've seen:

- A family "fleeing" Syria. OK no problem there, until they let slip they've been working in Turkey for the last 2 and a half years. After this 2 and a half years of safety they decided to go and claim asylum in Sweden. Hmm...
- Some bloke fleeing tyranny back home - very worthy, until he tells you back home is Morocco. I'll presume that's the tyranny of First Choice holidays and the tourist trade then.
- Thousands of migrants stuck in Budapest Station because Austria have had enough and closed the border - who then spent the entire news report moaning about being stuck in Budapest. Now ignoring the fact that Budapest is a lovely (and dirt cheap) city, I would have thought that if you were running away from a war zone, anywhere you weren't getting shot at would be an improvement - when did they start getting choosy about things? No, they didn't want Budapest (bit harsh on the Hungarians if you ask me, as it's a lovely place), they wanted to go to Germany.

Even though Germany in very recent history decided to deploy the tanks and go against treaties set up after the last time they tried to tell Europe what to do, and are currently debating whether Schengen is such a great idea after all.

I don't forsee this ending well at all.

 

[Gumbo]

I've got a simple suggestion for the medium term, particularly for those arriving in Greece.

Greece's tourist trade is fucked, not least on the Islands where the dead refugees are washing up. Greece's economy is fucked and this is not helping to bring foreign currency in.

It's expensive to process these refugees and take them on at all, leave alone our efforts to keep them out at Calais etc.

Why don't we, for the time being, take a contribution from each member state to put these people up in the empty hotels on Kos, Lesbos etc. At the same time, set up processing centres for each EU nation, on each island, where the people can attend to have their asylum applications individually assessed. If they are assessed as legitimate then they can travel, on our dollar, to the country which has accepted them, safely without hiding in airless lorries. Those assessed as not legitimate are returned, in very short order, from whence they came.

This pumps money into Greece's economy, it formalises the process, and spreads the cost around the EU. Hell, it's not impossible that there are skilled people amongst the refugees, if we're to believe they are fleeing war and not just moving for economic reasons. We might end up with EU countries fighting to offer the surgeons etc the best deals to come to them.

Wouldn't work for all, but might work for the few thousand washing up in Greece?

 

[Job]

I have it in good authority that every time a migrant boat lands, 500 Greeks sail it back to Syria for a better life.

 

[Embattle]

A German woman on Newsnight said she was fine with refugees but what she had an issue with is when they turned up all prepared to get a job.

I don't know how to put it without sounding rather harsh but what happened to fighting for your country?

 

[Scouse]

what happened to fighting for your country?

Perhaps people are realising that it's an outmoded idiotic and utterly moronic way of thinking that gets people killed for no good reason?

 

[Yoni]

The picture in the independent today of the dead child (we all know that the picture represents thousands who have drowned) made me question what it is to be human. Are some of you really ok with what is happening? Btw the Greek idea was a good one...

 

[Job]

Very sad, but his parents put him in that peril....a tiny overcrowded boat...no lifejacket..., I know it's easy to hindsight from my armchair, just a pair of water wings ffs...anything.

 

[Yoni]

Very sad, but his parents put him in that peril....a tiny overcrowded boat...no lifejacket..., I know it's easy to hindsight from my armchair, just a pair of water wings ffs...anything.

@Job maybe staying was worse.....all I feel is deep sadness and a wish the UK would do more. Here (Sweden) 30k have been rehoused I believe.

 

[Scouse]

@Job maybe staying was worse..

Pretty much the case and the parents, who will agonise over their children just like any other human, won't be doing it lightly...

 

[Embattle]

Perhaps people are realising that it's an outmoded idiotic and utterly moronic way of thinking that gets people killed for no good reason?

Most the developing countries these refugees are running away to were founded in such a method ironically, or do you think we got to this stage by wishful lefty thinking alone....actually not sure why I bothered saying that to you

 

[Scouse]

Most the developing countries these refugees are running away to were founded in such a method ironically, or do you think we got to this stage by wishful lefty thinking alone...

Your point being?

Or do you simply think people should not flee oppression and instead stay and be slaughtered when there's perfectly good examples of places you won't get raped and tortured, and your children may have better lives (or even live), if you just got the hell out of dodge?

 

[Embattle]

The picture in the independent today of the dead child (we all know that the picture represents thousands who have drowned) made me question what it is to be human. Are some of you really ok with what is happening? Btw the Greek idea was a good one...

Yeah I saw it today and it is indeed sad that the current massive number or migrants is causing a considerable amount of indifference to the whole issue, I mean beyond more people saying enough is enough on one side and others saying let them all in.

 

[old.user4556]

@Job maybe staying was worse

Well that was going to be my question - was it a) stay at home and get your head cut off or b) chance it on a boat ?

 

[Job]

It may seem stupid, but I"m guessing a lot of Syrians don't have much experience with the sea and boats and may be unaware of the danger, as in 'looks calm..only a few miles...yeah, that dingy will do just fine.

 

[Yoni]

Currently there are so many haenous outcomes it doesn't bear thinking about. A choice between chemical weapons although this has partially been stopped, IS (we all are aware of their control methods) and generally being in the wrong place at the wrong time...

 

[Gwadien]

I've got a simple suggestion for the medium term, particularly for those arriving in Greece.

Greece's tourist trade is fucked, not least on the Islands where the dead refugees are washing up. Greece's economy is fucked and this is not helping to bring foreign currency in.

It's expensive to process these refugees and take them on at all, leave alone our efforts to keep them out at Calais etc.

Why don't we, for the time being, take a contribution from each member state to put these people up in the empty hotels on Kos, Lesbos etc. At the same time, set up processing centres for each EU nation, on each island, where the people can attend to have their asylum applications individually assessed. If they are assessed as legitimate then they can travel, on our dollar, to the country which has accepted them, safely without hiding in airless lorries. Those assessed as not legitimate are returned, in very short order, from whence they came.

This pumps money into Greece's economy, it formalises the process, and spreads the cost around the EU. Hell, it's not impossible that there are skilled people amongst the refugees, if we're to believe they are fleeing war and not just moving for economic reasons. We might end up with EU countries fighting to offer the surgeons etc the best deals to come to them.

Wouldn't work for all, but might work for the few thousand washing up in Greece?

Quite a nice idea.

I can't see it working though.

Hotels will be reluctant to have migrants in 'just incase' that the tourism industry picks up, because it may lower their prices etc and get paid fuck all by Europe.

 

[Gwadien]

It may seem stupid, but I"m guessing a lot of Syrians don't have much experience with the sea and boats and may be unaware of the danger, as in 'looks calm..only a few miles...yeah, that dingy will do just fine.

LOL

You really are a fucking idiot.

It's more like do you stay at home and have a high chance of a rocket landing in your living room, or do you chance it on the seas to get to safety for your family.

 

[Bodhi]

LOL

You really are a fucking idiot.

It's more like do you stay at home and have a high chance of a rocket landing in your living room, or do you chance it on the seas to get to safety for your family.

Just playing Devil's Advocate, what about the many people in your favourite place who live under the daily threat of rocket attack (I was shown where the rocket shelters were before the fire exits!), but yet just get on with things?

 

[Embattle]

Your point being?

Or do you simply think people should not flee oppression and instead stay and be slaughtered when there's perfectly good examples of places you won't get raped and tortured, and your children may have better lives (or even live), if you just got the hell out of dodge?

No but nor do I think a lot of the ones I've seen appear to fit in the category you seem to be stating, in the end there is no absolutism as some are genuine some are not but as the flow increases it'll make it worse for all of them.

I also think the idea migrants have about what awaits them to get to Europe firstly http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32707346 and what they will actually get in those countries http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33907741 is a problem, it is easy to have a DM rage and think they get a lot on arriving here or elsewhere in Europe but they don't although as the flow increases it will still become very expensive and problematic.

 

[Job]

Here's the wikipage on the Syrian civil war....bearing in mind this was a modern, secular, stable country before we backed some deranged camel shaggers to carry on a war that has killed 200,000 people.
Just look who is backing who...what a frickin mess

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War

 

[Gwadien]

Just playing Devil's Advocate, what about the many people in your favourite place who live under the daily threat of rocket attack (I was shown where the rocket shelters were before the fire exits!), but yet just get on with things?

I think statistics show that you're more likely to get blown up if you're Palestinian, since the Israelis have state of the art anti-missile technology.

Israel = A 'state' which defends 'its people'

Syria = A 'state' which defends the people who are loyal to Assad, if you don't volunteer to suck his cock, you've got no friends, you're on your own.

Infact, I remember watching a video during the Gaza Genocide where there were Israelis standing outside watching the missiles fired at them getting blown up by the iron dome - so these rocket shelters were probably just to remind you that brown people are evil

If you want to be really pedantic about it though, i'd be more fearful living in southern America (as in, the south of the USA.) with all the gun crime etc.

Let's keep this on track though

 

[DaGaffer]

The problem I am having with the whole situation is that (as ever), quite a large amount of chancers and opportunists seems to be using this as a perfectly good excuse to head into Europe, find somewhere nice to settle and claim asylum - and sadly, the more TV reports I see on this, the less sympathy I'm having. In the last two days I've seen:

- A family "fleeing" Syria. OK no problem there, until they let slip they've been working in Turkey for the last 2 and a half years. After this 2 and a half years of safety they decided to go and claim asylum in Sweden. Hmm...
- Some bloke fleeing tyranny back home - very worthy, until he tells you back home is Morocco. I'll presume that's the tyranny of First Choice holidays and the tourist trade then.
- Thousands of migrants stuck in Budapest Station because Austria have had enough and closed the border - who then spent the entire news report moaning about being stuck in Budapest. Now ignoring the fact that Budapest is a lovely (and dirt cheap) city, I would have thought that if you were running away from a war zone, anywhere you weren't getting shot at would be an improvement - when did they start getting choosy about things? No, they didn't want Budapest (bit harsh on the Hungarians if you ask me, as it's a lovely place), they wanted to go to Germany.

Even though Germany in very recent history decided to deploy the tanks and go against treaties set up after the last time they tried to tell Europe what to do, and are currently debating whether Schengen is such a great idea after all.

I don't forsee this ending well at all.

The reason they're kicking off about being stuck in Budapest is because Hungary aren't accepting any asylum seekers at all, so if they can't go on, there's an evens chance they'll be sent back to Serbia (and out of Schengen). What would you do?

 

[Scouse]

Just playing Devil's Advocate, what about the many people in your favourite place who live under the daily threat of rocket attack (I was shown where the rocket shelters were before the fire exits!), but yet just get on with things?

"Rocket attacks"

 

[Gwadien]

Idisagree that you were clear in making your statement about african and middle east seekers when you just generally stated peoplefrom those regions

Read the poll title

 

[Moriath]

Read the poll title

By the third page the poll title is usually irrelevant on fh. I take each post on face value.

 

[Raven]

Just playing Devil's Advocate, what about the many people in your favourite place who live under the daily threat of rocket attack (I was shown where the rocket shelters were before the fire exits!), but yet just get on with things?

Because just for show rocket shelters (how many Israelis have died fron rockets?) are a little different from barrel bombs on market places or people getting rounded up and executed.

 

[Bodhi]

Because just for show rocket shelters (how many Israelis have died fron rockets?) are a little different from barrel bombs on market places or people getting rounded up and executed.

As I said, just playing Devil's Advocate. According to Wiki around 50 have died and 1900 have been injured - not as high as in Syria, but still higher than it should be (0 and 0).

I think the problem we are facing is, whilst there are many genuine refugee cases out there, there are also many cases like the below. I'd be more than happy for us to assist with genuine claims, however people like the below who decided to throw refugees overboard because they worshipped the wrong sky fairy, can frankly stay where they are.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...rorists-after-Christians-thrown-into-sea.html

So how the hell do you sort the genuine cases from people like this?

 

[Yoni]

The UK is not doing enough here end of. Increase taxation by 2% at the highest level to cover the cost... It's not like you are taxed at a high level anyway on income in the UK... So Rodney and hyacinth won't be able to have their new boat / car / holiday home for an extra year.... I know that humanitarian aid has been sent... But to whom and how was it used... These fellow humans don't need 'aid' they need homes and safe passage to them...