Asylum Seekers; Yay or Nay?

[throdgrain]

It's ok, Ajazeera has printed it so it's alright to read.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...lan-kurdi-syria-refugees-150904054322233.html

 

[Bodhi]

The media never lies, trust me.

https://vid.me/nHCc/bbc-lying-about-hungarian-police-as-an-immigrant

Edit - What are peoples thoughts on this as well -



It was from an Indian site/forum so that is why the Muslim comment is there but why are the states in the region not getting involved or getting blasted for doing nothing? Why is the USA not getting shit for doing nothing?

This is one thing that is really pissing me off about this crisis, is we are not getting the whole story from the media. We're told the father of the boy in the picture was refused asylum in Canada, however news reports in Canada claim there was no such application. Stories of the refugees in Hungary being given food and water packages by Hungarian Police, and having them thrown straight back at them. Then you've got the story of one lot of refugees throwing another lot overboard due to a sky fairy disagreement. Even the picture of the dead child, whilst harrowing, was 100% pure unadulterated propaganda.

I feel if we were getting the whole story, we'd be able to make better decisions, not only for the safety of the refugees - but our own as well. It doesn't help that immigration has been so poorly managed since 1997, and used a political football in that time, meaning some people have less sympathy than they should.

In the words of Full Metal Jacket - it's turning into a massive shit sandwich and we're going to have to all take a bite.

 

[Moriath]

But why is there no uproar about it or the USA? Why is it totally falling on the EU to sort it out? Why is Russia doing nothing (or are they?).

I don't get it, there is no balance.



Totally disagree. Let's see what others think, maybe it's your eye/brain thing and maybe it's mine

Because the migrants dont want to go to those places. They may be refugees but they have places they want to go. Not just a safe place. But a specific place.

Or they would be wanting to stay in hungary not demanding they get shipped to germany. Or austria if you find an ex communist state unacceptable.

 

[DaGaffer]

But why is there no uproar about it or the USA? Why is it totally falling on the EU to sort it out? Why is Russia doing nothing (or are they?).

I don't get it, there is no balance.

Totally disagree. Let's see what others think, maybe it's your eye/brain thing and maybe it's mine

Geography basically. What's the best place to get to if you live in the middle east? Either a country next door (so for Syrians, Turkey, Lebanon or Jordan, some even go to Iraq), or if you really want to get away from all that shit; Europe. I'm sure lots would like to go on to Canada, or Australia, or the US (although from their perspective the US probably looks profoundly anti-Islam), and once some of them get leave to remain in the EU, a few will try, but other than its just a numbers thing (its almost like inverse square law; the further away the numbers drop off). As for Russia, would you want to go there? And would Putin let anyone in anyway? Apparently some Afghans have ended up in places like Kazakhstan but are desperate to get away from there because they're not allowed to work (which is a similar issue with Turkey). I was actually surprised to read that there are also nearly a million Afghans in Iran, but the Iranians are now trying to kick them back over the border. Whole fucking region is on the move.

 

[Poag]

But why is there no uproar about it or the USA? Why is it totally falling on the EU to sort it out? Why is Russia doing nothing (or are they?).

Massive Ocean in the way so no people stacking up on their boarder = dont care
EU is the closest western environment, and the media they've seen shows it all as smiles and their communities already exist, so they can drop into the same sort of community they lived in before.
Russia is seen as almost as a backer of Assad and thus is seen with fear, Afghans fought a fairly vicious war with Russia as well in living memory, so again people dont see them as a ncie place to go.

If they aren't stacking up on your boarder you ignore it.

The Arab countries, that another and fairly long discussion. UAE recently deported a load of Syrian refugees after randomly (it seems) expiring their VISAs.


Simply its fallen to the EU as we are:-
A- Close
B- Relatively safe/easy to get too.
C- Going to help to some level.

The rest is not true of any other the others.

 

[DaGaffer]

This is one thing that is really pissing me off about this crisis, is we are not getting the whole story from the media. We're told the father of the boy in the picture was refused asylum in Canada, however news reports in Canada claim there was no such application. Stories of the refugees in Hungary being given food and water packages by Hungarian Police, and having them thrown straight back at them. Then you've got the story of one lot of refugees throwing another lot overboard due to a sky fairy disagreement. Even the picture of the dead child, whilst harrowing, was 100% pure unadulterated propaganda.

I feel if we were getting the whole story, we'd be able to make better decisions, not only for the safety of the refugees - but our own as well. It doesn't help that immigration has been so poorly managed since 1997, and used a political football in that time, meaning some people have less sympathy than they should.

In the words of Full Metal Jacket - it's turning into a massive shit sandwich and we're going to have to all take a bite.

I'm not sure there is a whole story. Its not one country, one route, or even one motivation for leaving. I also don't think this is a thing that can be "fixed", just managed better.

 

[Poag]

It's ok, Ajazeera has printed it so it's alright to read.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...lan-kurdi-syria-refugees-150904054322233.html

This article is fairly, good, so far in my reading. Sadly i got to this bit and it brought up an annoyance I've had for goddam years...

Those doing the "#refugeeswelcome" are going to kill more people. They will think "Hey Europeans will let us in, lets go!" get to the sea..into the traffickers and then.....well...we all know what happens next....

I hate social media for this sort of thing, people like or retweet or something equally pointless. Its like ALS all over again, people retweet or do it without understanding what it is or the point of people not wanting to pour ice over themselves in the first place. End result? The original cause is diluted and swamped under a mass of shit and self glorification.


I would also point out here that maybe we should take more refugees in, maybe we should look after them forever.

But we should definitely look to resolve the cause of them being refugees. ISIS.
Will we fuck it up in dealing with them? Probably.
Will it make more refugees? Possibly
Should we just do it anyway? Probably.

 

[Scouse]

Those doing the "#refugeeswelcome" are going to kill more people. They will think "Hey Europeans will let us in, lets go!" get to the sea..into the traffickers and then.....well...we all know what happens next....

Small numbers getting killed by drowning in the med - or large numbers getting bombed to hell, and even if they don't get killed living in that atmosphere.

A dangerous crowded boat in the med with a significant chance of dying is probably a massive step up in quality of life for most of these people.


We don't care if they get bombed to shit by their thousands in their arsehole of a country. We care (a little) if they die on their way to us.

 

[Job]

Yes, Russia is supporting Assad, which is what we should have done from the start...the people being shelled by the Government are just unfortunate to be in areas infiltrated by the rebels and are dying because those idiots think that other people dying is worth their cause.
We are supporting these murderous fanatics and continuing the war...will we get any thanks of the Muslims for opposing a dictator.?..will we fuck...most of them can't handle democracy and would simply impose their own dictatorship, they will squabble for ever and many people dying or leaving Syria because of government shelling were quite happy under Assad.
Who did he detain and torture?
People who wanted to start a war.

 

[Gwadien]

@throdgrain using Al Jazeera on this subject is pretty poor.

IT's like using the Daily Mail for the same subject.

Al Jazeera is owned by Saudis (I think?) who have done fuck all to help the Syrians, for obvious reasons.

 

[old.user4556]

Stories of the refugees in Hungary being given food and water packages by Hungarian Police, and having them thrown straight back at them

They obviously weren't very hungary then.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Why when we see the pictures of these people on TV and in the papers are most of them men? Just an observation that it looks close to 100% men in Calais and at least 80% men on the boats etc.
Also as an aside I noticed that the Greek locals are waiting on the beaches and having the outboards off the dinghies once they have landed. Bet there's loads of them on Greek Ebay.

 

[Moriath]

Why when we see the pictures of these people on TV and in the papers are most of them men? Just an observation that it looks close to 100% men in Calais and at least 80% men on the boats etc.
Also as an aside I noticed that the Greek locals are waiting on the beaches and having the outboards off the dinghies once they have landed. Bet there's loads of them on Greek Ebay.

Cause the men go to make money to send back home?

 

[Trem]

Cause the men go to make money to send back home?

Hmm while they leave the women to get slaughtered?

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Cause the men go to make money to send back home?

Which makes them economic migrants and not asylum seekers.

Hmm while they leave the women to get slaughtered?

Exactly.

 

[Scouse]

Apart from that being crap for the most part.

BTW - I'm an economic migrant. I move from one part of the country to another stealing the local's jobs. I don't give a fuck if it's across borders tbh. Humans will always want more for themselves.

 

[Gwadien]

LOL

Here we go.

Our true British values coming out, let's try to pick apart at a situation to justify not doing anything.

It's mainly men in Calais because a lot of them are from North Africa, and they have a system like we had to, if you see most of their stories, it's always the same thing - I'm the 3rd son, I had to leave to make money for myself, my older brother inherited the little that we had.

But again, to keep on subject.

The men protested at the Train station and at the Macedonian border, because the women were looking after the children.

I know right, quite selfish of them, would have made some good photos.

 

[throdgrain]

When you think about it, it's pretty scary having these hordes of people rampaging across a continent. As Scouse says, Humans will always want more for themselves. And us lot are very different to them, I don't doubt there will be all sorts of trouble from this.

But it's also worth noting that it's our own fault really. We have had a decade or so of completely ruining and de-stabilising the whole region, and now the fruits of that stupidity are coming down hard. Saddam Hussain was a bit of a badass, but he kept that area stable. Same for President Assad of Syria. So, for totally opposing reasons we backed the wrong team on both occasions, and the result is hundreds of thousands dead and further hundreds of thousands coming to steal your shit. Fuck it all.

I wonder if the only answer isn't to go fight ISIS, and then return the people to their homes. That probably won't work either though.

 

[Gwadien]

We need a country in that area who's friends with everyone, and we give them all of our money.

Jordan?

 

[Embattle]

Our true British values coming out, let's try to pick apart at a situation to justify not doing anything

Not sure any one is suggesting doing nothing but I'm sure that it suits your narrative to say such things in the same way it suits Emma Thompson to imply that objecting to the current situation makes you racist. It doesn't change the fact that for quite a lot of people a refugee turns into a economic migrant the further they travel to find alleged safety, which is also made worse by the gender demographics that appear in the media. Ironically on this forum many defenders of the refugees cause have actually been pigeonholing the refugees as economic migrants with the statements of why they want to come to western Europe.

I also suspect the area the government will have to cut back on with regards to immigration will be the official channels, that is if it even wants to try and meet the laughable targets they keep trying to meet which then just makes a bigger mockery of immigration.

 

[Trem]

LOL

Here we go.

Our true British values coming out, let's try to pick apart at a situation to justify not doing anything.

It's mainly men in Calais because a lot of them are from North Africa, and they have a system like we had to, if you see most of their stories, it's always the same thing - I'm the 3rd son, I had to leave to make money for myself, my older brother inherited the little that we had.

But again, to keep on subject.

The men protested at the Train station and at the Macedonian border, because the women were looking after the children.

I know right, quite selfish of them, would have made some good photos.

Are you going to offer a migrant your spare room? Are you prepared to perhaps downsize your house and use the cash to put towards a house for a family of migrants? Will you give up every spare penny of your income to a migrant family, perhaps have a smaller telly a shitter phone or slower internet? You. Not everyone else. You? Same question applies to those who support it so strongly. Downsize, give up all your spare income (which means you can't have the best telly, tech etc), offer a room in your house. I mean you could do it next week if the answer is yes, you really could.

I will give you my answer to the same question just for fairness, and my answer is no. No I will not do any of those things.

 

[Gumbo]

Funny you should ask that question. We were due to appear before panel on Tuesday next week for our final approval as foster carers. It's been delayed for a week because the chair of the panel couldn't make it, but...

An area which has interested me over the last 7 months as we've gone through the process is the demand for carers for unaccompanied asylum seeker children. It's very likely we'll be caring for some soon, I suppose it looks increasingly likely now.

Not quite the same as your question, but still.

 

[Scouse]

Will you give up every spare penny of your income to a migrant family

I do know that if we take all the wealth off a single UK family we'd have enough cash to solve this in one fell swoop...

 

[Trem]

I do know that if we take all the wealth off a single UK family we'd have enough cash to solve this in one fell swoop...

Answer the question instead of being a div

 

[Scouse]

Answer the question instead of being a div

I did. Inconvenience one family instead of the whole country. We *could* do that. Why does that have to be off the table? They can stay in their big house(s) if they like...

There's more than enough cash to solve the problem knocking about in a handful of people's hands in this country alone.

The rich could easily fix this. Just sayin'...

 

[Job]

All these people offering homes for refugees...of course it's temporary...I mean surely, no one wants Abdul and his 3 wives permanently squatting in the spare room...done my bit, put the 20 quid in the charity box, they'll move on surely to a better life somewhere...well skip the spare room and let them build a life straight away.
NIMBY of course, somewhere over the rainbow.

 

[Trem]

I did. Inconvenience one family instead of the whole country. We *could* do that. Why does that have to be off the table? They can stay in their big house(s) if they like...

There's more than enough cash to solve the problem knocking about in a handful of people's hands in this country alone.

The rich could easily fix this. Just sayin'...

Of course, maybe if each of the worlds billionaires each gave 1 of their billion then a lot of this would be nicer.

But I can't say a thing in this thread that looks out for our already homeless or deprived without getting bombarded about how that doesn't matter compared to this or that.

So fine, I am honestly saying I will not give up anything towards the migrant issue, homeless here already I will and do donate, that's all though.

I don't want nor expect you to do the same but it seems that the holier than thou in this thread expect everyone to do something except them themselves.

I want to know what @DaGaffer and @Gwadien are going to personally do to help.

 

[Moriath]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...d-carlsberg-illegal-immigrants_n_8069148.html

Just saw this on the last leg

 

[Bodhi]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...d-carlsberg-illegal-immigrants_n_8069148.html

Just saw this on the last leg

Aye I saw that when he did the post originally. I did do a lol.

 

[Gwadien]

Are you going to offer a migrant your spare room? Are you prepared to perhaps downsize your house and use the cash to put towards a house for a family of migrants? Will you give up every spare penny of your income to a migrant family, perhaps have a smaller telly a shitter phone or slower internet? You. Not everyone else. You? Same question applies to those who support it so strongly. Downsize, give up all your spare income (which means you can't have the best telly, tech etc), offer a room in your house. I mean you could do it next week if the answer is yes, you really could.

I will give you my answer to the same question just for fairness, and my answer is no. No I will not do any of those things.

It's not about individuals doing things as I've said before its about the government who is meant to represent us to actually do something