2H Paladins

[AbPoon]

Make a new thread please >.<

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Oh didn't know that. I found I parryed quite alot with only 9+9 parry in my current template Thought it had something to do with wielding a 2H

it's the dex/qui buff

Doubt you'll do double damage with 39 spec instead of 29, but you will do more.

How good's the level 34 HoT? Probably completely useless.

I may well have to roll a friar with that spec

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
No, I mean it is still great anytime style with chance-to-hit and no penalty to defense and stuff. Also high damage. Ofcourse it does lower damage. But how much?

90 points weaponskill difference is not that bad to be honest I think. Around 8% less weaponskill.

It's 8% less weaponskill, so even if you ignore defense-bypassing you do lower base (unstyled, or before style bonus) damage.

But you also have lower Staff, which means your style bonus multiplier is lower. Someone with 44 total staff (29+11+RR5) will have 25% less style bonus on the same base damage as someone with 54 total.

The guy with 39 staff will end up hitting for close to 40% more damage than the one with 29, and that's ignoring hitting any char which has defense. Then the Friar with 44 base does roughly 60% more total damage, etc.

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Oh didn't know that. I found I parryed quite alot with only 9+9 parry in my current template Thought it had something to do with wielding a 2H

Probably something to do with having 300+ dex and parry actually working quite well this patch (if someone is alone, and hitting you from the front, etc - doesn't exactly happen often)

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
I may well have to roll a friar with that spec

Just because you hear of a great gimp doesn't mean you have to roll the thing

 

[Draylor]

Originally posted by old.LandShark
You'd think after at least 3 level 50 pure tanks he'd have a clue by now, wouldn't you?

Not if you met him before he left albion for the land of the overpowered FotM tanks.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Pin
It's 8% less weaponskill, so even if you ignore defense-bypassing you do lower base (unstyled, or before style bonus) damage.

But you also have lower Staff, which means your style bonus multiplier is lower. Someone with 44 total staff (29+11+RR5) will have 25% less style bonus on the same base damage as someone with 54 total.

The guy with 39 staff will end up hitting for close to 40% more damage than the one with 29, and that's ignoring hitting any char which has defense. Then the Friar with 44 base does roughly 60% more total damage, etc.

So weaponskill is less important then weapon-spec in terms of damage. And weaponskill for bypassing enemy defenses?

Or is it a ' grey blob' area ?

Probably something to do with having 300+ dex and parry actually working quite well this patch (if someone is alone, and hitting you from the front, etc - doesn't exactly happen often)

Might be, but in PvE I already parried quite alot before patch.

didn't play much Albion after patch I have to admit :/

 

[Draylor]

Originally posted by Pin
Just because you hear of a great gimp doesn't mean you have to roll the thing

Oh come on, you know who your talking to, OF COURSE hes going to roll one given half a chance.

Most people would draw the line at trying to level a painworking necro, but you can be sure hes on the lookout for the next Gimp-of-the-Month

Painworking necros arent THAT bad really, but resting for power just didnt work for me. A few bubs after /level 20'ing I gave up on it. Ill try out a painworking necro again if/when I manage to get a few respec stones

 

[Jiggs]

weap spec and quickness = your damage

weapskill = whether u actually gonna hit the guy to make that damage

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Pin
Just because you hear of a great gimp doesn't mean you have to roll the thing

but it does

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Draylor

Painworking necros arent THAT bad really, but resting for power just didnt work for me. A few bubs after /level 20'ing I gave up on it. Ill try out a painworking necro again if/when I manage to get a few respec stones

Works a bit better in a group... but then you're probably just relying on the group to look after you. It can actually solo fairly well, just not anywhere near deathsight.

Deathservant is a nice spec too - but it's pbaoe again so needs a group, and it BURNS mana. Obliterates red undead, faster than deathsight - but you run out of mana after one


not sure why people call painworking the "RvR" spec - it's got no range, and no damage either... it has a pbaoe dot... but you have to get close to the enemy to use it = dead pet = dead you.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Jiggs
weap spec and quickness = your damage

You mean dexterity I guess, but ok

weapskill = whether u actually gonna hit the guy to make that damage

Nah that cannot be right. 2H-paladins where inferior because of their lower weapskill meaning they would hit for lower damage. According to you the weapskill makes the difference in actually hitting them.

This cannot be right, there must be something else involved hehe

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
So weaponskill is less important then weapon-spec in terms of damage. And weaponskill for bypassing enemy defenses?

Or is it a ' grey blob' area ?

Weaponskill says how well you hit them and how high your base damage is for that hit, the Weapon-Spec then says how much style bonus you get.

But if you are comparing 2 specs of the same character with the same gear, then Weapon-Spec => Weaponskill. So it all comes down to your Weapon-Spec.

If you are comparing specs between 2 different characters (take a 2h arms vs 2h pally for instance), then if they both have the same weapon-spec they get the same style bonus multiplier, but the Paladin has much lower weaponskill, so much lower base damage (and thus lower style bonus).

 

[QuickS]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
So weaponskill is less important then weapon-spec in terms of damage. And weaponskill for bypassing enemy defenses?

If you want to maximise damage then make a SC set with no quickness and get maxmimum staff spec. Dont use your dex/qui buff or haste chant (these both lower damage due to quickness).

With this setup boon caps at around 700 and banish at closer to 800.

Its a shit spec thos cus you miss more than hit and only ever cap on casters if they dont have their AF buff up.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by QuickS
If you want to maximise damage then make a SC set with no quickness and get maxmimum staff spec. Dont use your dex/qui buff or haste chant (these both lower damage due to quickness).

With this setup boon caps at around 700 and banish at closer to 800.

Its a shit spec thos cus you miss more than hit and only ever cap on casters if they dont have their AF buff up.

I think it's good to cap quickness because it improves your damage-over-time.

Having low-quickness is only good for people who can theoretically one-shot people (or come very near to that, because it is harder to heal for the enemy with frontload-damage).

I think friar should strive to capped quickness because of Evade, higher dmg-over-time and you cannot escape the dex/qui buff imo because your staff-damage is related to DEX ofcourse

 

[Draylor]

Getting way off topic here, but so what - not like we NEED another whining 2h pally thread

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
Works a bit better in a group... but then you're probably just relying on the group to look after you. It can actually solo fairly well, just not anywhere near deathsight.

Planning to test a high painworking, mid deathsight spec. PW for fun, DS get some powertap since after ALOT of time spent playing necro any downtime at all drives me insane. Itll still suck for RvR, but PB DoT for keep defence might be amusing once in a while.

Deathservant is a nice spec too - but it's pbaoe again so needs a group, and it BURNS mana. Obliterates red undead, faster than deathsight - but you run out of mana after one

/Level'd a servant necro too to take a quick look. Same problem, power usage drove me insane. With FP necros can happily use PBAE without a group, especially with a damage shield. Gimme enough respec stones Ill happily gimp my necro to try it out. Given a little time Sidi will provide those stones.

not sure why people call painworking the "RvR" spec - it's got no range, and no damage either... it has a pbaoe dot... but you have to get close to the enemy to use it = dead pet = dead you.

Probably because attempting to move anywhere in frontiers with a suicidal necro pet is a nightmare. Sitting safely inside a keep PB DoTing the doors has to be a nice alternative.

 

[Jiggs]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress

I think friar should strive to capped quickness because of Evade, higher dmg-over-time and you cannot escape the dex/qui buff imo because your staff-damage is related to DEX ofcourse

dammit whats this friar 101?

like quicksilver said, your dexterity has fu*k all to do with your damage cap, its ALL weapon spec and how low your quickness is..

its weaponskill which is related to DEX

ok?

 

[seeaira]

Originally posted by Antedeluvian
LOL, and a s/s pally can solo, i did, a fucking entire house of pygmis (about 5 blues+another 5 yellows) and can take 3 RED ONES whitout use FH or good buffs. Dont ever try to say 2H pallys are usefull in RvR btw, not only crap dmg output (plz dont talk about caps, i cap my mangle in about 700 dmg, so?) but more miss/blocked/evaded/parried rate. If you want play a GIMPED espec just do it, but dont contamine newbies playing DAOC and reading this forun whit the GREAT 2H PALLY ideas, cause 2H PALLYS ARE GIMPS, the same whit s/s armsmen btw, why hell an armsmen want espec s/s to do 200 dmg on enemies insteal pole/2H and do 400?. Let the pallys use s/s and u armsmen use the big toys ffs!.

:yawn: I really im sick of even posting about this.. so say what you want. Its funny to see how many people just have no clue lol.
You say you went and soloed the gob house with 5 blues and 5 yellows plus.. and? Is that good? you have a freekin shield.. I think the fact I have done the same is more impressing as im suposed to be a "gimp" yet I can do the same as a s&s?? OOO My... what will you do??

Caps? I cap Onslot at 633 with my 4.8 sword.. the slower one does alot more. so again.. point? I parry alllll the time with mobs bouncing off my sword.. why do i need a shield to do that?
dont use pve to tell me im gimped cause i beg to differ..

imo having end 4 isnt that big of a deal.. im always full on end.
It's also funny you say a arms is gimped if hes s&s cause he can do more dmg if hes 2 handed.. from 200 to 400 you say ... hmmm the same can be said of a 2 handed pally.. why do 100 200 dmg when you can do 400ish?? AND have chants??

At the end of the day its down to what you like, and what is fun for you. Id say Alb is not running short on s&s pallys anytime soon so who cares if a hand full of us want to do somehting diff? Just play how you like.. and stop being a retard for pointing out others are gimped.. dont knock it till you try it.

And btw.. pole does 0 more damage than 2h
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=54237713&replies=12

 

[parlain]

Originally posted by seeaira
.. im always full on end.

Says it all really :great:

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Jiggs
dammit whats this friar 101?

like quicksilver said, your dexterity has fu*k all to do with your damage cap, its ALL weapon spec and how low your quickness is..

its weaponskill which is related to DEX

Pin says:
Weaponskill says how well you hit them and how high your base damage is for that hit, the Weapon-Spec then says how much style bonus you get.

So DEX involves base-damage for that hit.

So if you don't use dex/qui buff your cap might be higher but your base-damage for that hit is lower.

so on avg you're penalizing yourselves twice. Once for lower quickness meaning you do lower damage over time. And once for having lower base-damage.

ok?

Read above to what I mean.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Pin says:
Weaponskill says how well you hit them and how high your base damage is for that hit, the Weapon-Spec then says how much style bonus you get.

So DEX involves base-damage for that hit.

So if you don't use dex/qui buff your cap might be higher but your base-damage for that hit is lower.

so on avg you're penalizing yourselves twice. Once for lower quickness meaning you do lower damage over time. And once for having lower base-damage.

The point was that QS was being sarcastic (doesn't come across very well on boards without appropriate smilies though )

Go back and read QS's first sentence as mildly sarcastic and then your response seems a bit errr... unneccessary.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Draylor
Planning to test a high painworking, mid deathsight spec. PW for fun, DS get some powertap since after ALOT of time spent playing necro any downtime at all drives me insane. Itll still suck for RvR, but PB DoT for keep defence might be amusing once in a while.

Yeah my gimpomancer is levle-1 in pain, rest in sight...

the powertap can be useful but it's not great - will be better when I get minidings.

I'm told that 44 painworking 31 sight is actually quite nifty.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Pin
The point was that QS was being sarcastic (doesn't come across very well on boards without appropriate smilies though )

Go back and read QS's first sentence as mildly sarcastic and then your response seems a bit errr... unneccessary.

Sorry, I tried. But English not my primary language and I dont understand the sarcasm of it.

Blame my bad knowledge of English I think.

 

[parlain]

Originally posted by Pin
The point was that QS was being sarcastic (doesn't come across very well on boards without appropriate smilies though )

Go back and read QS's first sentence as mildly sarcastic and then your response seems a bit errr... unneccessary.

QS don't do smiles

He can be heard to utter the phrases "ahoy" "aharrr" and "yo ho ho" in gu at times tho...

 

[Ialkarn]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by seeaira
.. im always full on end.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by parlain
Says it all really :great:

Exactly! those ppl always whine for end damnit! make a pali yourself if you want end! I wish they would make it a selfchant like friars have!

 

[Thisisgonnahurt]

Thought I was following this right.... but I may have been mistaken. Are you now saying paladins are good because of chants regardless of weaponry? Maybe I didnt read this last one over enough..... your not making any fucking sense.

 

[seeaira]

Originally posted by Ialkarn
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by seeaira
.. im always full on end.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Exactly! those ppl always whine for end damnit! make a pali yourself if you want end! I wish they would make it a selfchant like friars have!

wtf?? can someone translate what hes saying here please...

 

[Thamiles]

he says dont use styles, save end for sprinting or something..now come join guildgroup hun

 

[AbPoon]

Originally posted by seeaira
wtf?? can someone translate what hes saying here please...

He means the way you talk about your toon whos a support char is all about you, I'M never out of end, fuck everyone else i want 2h, you fuckers can have end 3, you want me to guard and slam for the clerics? WTF!!! i need to use 2H and pwn mid newbs

Its not all about YOUR damage, its not all about how many kills YOU get its about how the group does as a whole, but if your not in an rvr guild or dont join proper rvr groups you probley wont understand that.

 

[Vireb]

k said the guy whos specced 44 la 44 axe 44 parry on a dmg dealing class
nice one gimp!!! oo but ofc your not gimp your just different and playing what you find fun ............. isnt that what seeaira is trying to say ? uhm HELLO!!!?
oo and guess what your norse too need i say more ?

 

[seeaira]

Originally posted by AbPoon
He means the way you talk about your toon whos a support char is all about you, I'M never out of end, fuck everyone else i want 2h, you fuckers can have end 3, you want me to guard and slam for the clerics? WTF!!! i need to use 2H and pwn mid newbs

Its not all about YOUR damage, its not all about how many kills YOU get its about how the group does as a whole, but if your not in an rvr guild or dont join proper rvr groups you probley wont understand that.

Poon hun.. I know you are jealous of my ubberness but please.. dont let others know.
Just because you made a big alliance in midgard and got all elitist you dont have to act like you have a pinaple up your ass


First of all, I am in a RvR guild.. and as I have said before I get groups fine and no one has said anything about my end 4 not being enough. When I said "I always have end" thats what I ment.

you fuckers can have end 3, you want me to guard and slam for the clerics? WTF!!! i need to use 2H and pwn mid newbs

LMAO this is great i had to laugh.. can I use that as my new sig?