Your daily terrorist bullshit.

[Scouse]

Unless you're recinding this statement:

Seriously though, given the restrictions we can place on football hooligans, paedos etc, and the number we already have on a watch list, I'm struggling to see how we can't bring in something similar for the snackbars.

You're pushing for draconian interference in the lives of people who've never been found guilty of anything on the basis of innuendo.

History shows you're an asshat.

 

[Bodhi]

Unless you're recinding this statement:
You're pushing for draconian interference in the lives of people who've never been found guilty of anything on the basis of innuendo.

History shows you're an asshat.

I'm guessing if they're on a terrorist watchlist it's based on a little more than innuendo.

However, it's quite a jump for suggesting more is done with this watchlist, to suggesting ALL Muslims are put on a watchlist, which is the latest straw man you've come up with.

So history shows you are putting words in people's mouths. Again.

 

[Scouse]

Bullshit @Bodhi. You're on about treating people who are on a watchlist like people who've been convicted of criminal offenses - paedos and football hooligans. You're on about increasing the restrictions on thousands of people who've not been convicted of anything.

...given the restrictions we can place on football hooligans, paedos...

Who have been convicted in court...

I'm struggling to see how we can't bring in something similar for the snackbars

Who you've defined as:

Snackbars are the Islamic Extremists

who you already state

23,000 of which we have on a watch list

And you want to ramp that up. That's what you said, in context.

No words being put in anyones mouths. You want to ramp up the pressure on a group of people who we're already watching to the same levels of people who've been convicted of criminal offenses - without due process.

No matter how you wriggle and squirm you've said that - which makes you an asshat of the tallest order IMO.

 

[Bodhi]

Please, point out where I said I wanted to ramp up the number of people on the watchlist? You'll take a while as that is not something I have said, or even think. What I'm interested in is the people who are already on it, how they got on it, and how we can stop them from killing people. Nothing more, nothing less. If we need more resource for that to happen then that should happen.

The rest of your projection just makes you look like a useful idiot to be honest with you, and is just as unhelpful as the "deport the lot" side of the argument. But if I'm an asshat for wanting to stop innocent people from dying then we reall do live in a fucked up country.

 

[Raven]

You're wasting your time. He has already spent a couple of pages arguing about something your didn't say.

 

[Bodhi]

You're wasting your time. He has already spent a couple of pages arguing about something your didn't say.

Indeed, that's enough banging my head off a brick wall for the day.

 

[Scouse]

Read my last post again @Bodhi. It relates, very specifically, to this:

What I'm interested in is the people who are already on it, how they got on it, and how we can stop them from killing people

As you say, there's 23000 people on the watchlist. You are proposing treating those people like criminals - paedos and violent hooligans - ramping up the pressure on a non-criminal group of people. Treating them how we treat criminals without due process in court.

That's all we're talking about. My last post was *very* specific and the language clear.

 

[Raven]

But that is exactly how we dealt with football hooligans, the police attended their meetings, supervised them and the moment anyone looked dodgy they got thrown into the back of a paddy wagon and "Processed" ended up on a register, had their movement restricted (not allowed to attend games, or even go to the towns or cities around match days)

Coupled with education and making it easier to report shenanigans by others, and, dun dun duuuuh, It worked.

Your talking out the top of your head, again.

 

[Scouse]

Rubbish @Raven. Bodhi is talking about treating people already on a watchlist (like low level football hooligans) like criminals - violent offenders and convicted paedophiles.

The police charge football hooligans primarily with conspiracy to commit affray and conspiracy to commit violence - in the courts. And narrowing down the scope to exclude Bodhi's assertion of treating them like paedos is just butthurt bodhi fanboiism. He's man enough to protect himself and doesn't need misguided help. Stop jumping in and trying to muddy very clear waters.

The issue is Bodhi's clearly-stated desire to treat non-criminals like criminals without due process. Period.

 

[Raven]

But all criminals are treated like criminals (suspects actually, potatoes, potatoes) before they are convicted. I don't even know whether you have a clear idea of what you are on about in your own head.

Maybe take some time to think about what you mean before you go off on one?

 

[Scouse]

But all criminals are treated like criminals (suspects actually, potatoes, potatoes)

Lol

 

[Bodhi]

Rubbish @Raven. Bodhi is talking about treating people already on a watchlist (like low level football hooligans) like criminals - violent offenders and convicted paedophiles.

The police charge football hooligans primarily with conspiracy to commit affray and conspiracy to commit violence - in the courts. And narrowing down the scope to exclude Bodhi's assertion of treating them like paedos is just butthurt bodhi fanboiism. He's man enough to protect himself and doesn't need misguided help. Stop jumping in and trying to muddy very clear waters.

The issue is Bodhi's clearly-stated desire to treat non-criminals like criminals without due process. Period.

Or maybe, just maybe, I'm suggesting introducing due process so they can be charged, processed in the courts and then treated like criminals? For instance I'm not entirely sure why anyone would want to download an ISIS propaganda movie, or instructions on how to make a bomb if they weren't considering something nafarious - much in the same way downloading kiddy pr0n gets you into a world of pain, why not do the same for those videos?

Or we could just call anyone exploring solutions racist in an attempt to close down debate. As that is working fucking superbly at the moment.

 

[Lakih]

What I'm interested in is the people who are already on it, how they got on it, and how we can stop them from killing people. Nothing more, nothing less. If we need more resource for that to happen then that should happen.

I think this is important. No one got on that list (hopefully) because their name was drawn out of a hat.
Innocent until proven guilty for sure, but that doesn't mean you won't be investigated.
Investigated =! guilty.

 

[Scouse]

Or maybe, just maybe, I'm suggesting introducing due process so they can be charged, processed in the courts and then treated like criminals?

No. No you're not. You've had ample opportunity to do that - especially when I've repeatedly made the point about due process. You've done nothing of the sort and were thinking nothing of the sort.

Edit: I've made my point. It's clear for all to see. I'm ducking out of this one at this point before more nonsense ensues.

 

[Bodhi]

No. No you're not. You've had ample opportunity to do that - especially when I've repeatedly made the point about due process. You've done nothing of the sort and were thinking nothing of the sort.

Edit: I've made my point. It's clear for all to see. I'm ducking out of this one at this point before more nonsense ensues.

Yes, and unless you have access to my brain to know what I'm thinking, your point is mostly bollocks.

And if you do have access GET OUT OF MY HEAD!"!"!"!!

 

[DaGaffer]

I think this is important. No one got on that list (hopefully) because their name was drawn out of a hat.
Innocent until proven guilty for sure, but that doesn't mean you won't be investigated.
Investigated =! guilty.

Guilty of what?

 

[Job]

We should just follow Chinas lead, they are the only country who will survive the next 100 years with an ounce of the culture intact.

is islam legal in china - Google Search

 

[ECA]

We should just follow Chinas lead, they are the only country who will survive the next 100 years with an ounce of the culture intact.

is islam legal in china - Google Search

Poland/Japan also on board.

 

[Gumbo]

Bodhi's point is quite valid. Perhaps we need to lower the bar. Perhaps. Before anyone jumps down my throat I'm not saying we should, but it's worth the discussion.

Looking at kiddie Pr0n is rightly illegal. People go to jail for it. It's not a victimless crime. Even without jail, or after jail, the perps often get lifetime restrictions beyond their sentence. There's no such thing as serving your time and then starting again with a clean sheet.

Perhaps looking at certain kinds of ISIS propaganda should be treated the same. Perhaps spreading that propaganda should be too. Either out loud in the street, or in the Mosque. You can bet that someone standing up and encouraging people to rape children on a street corner or in a village hall would be swiftly dealt with, but it seems that isn't always the case where extremist views are encouraged.

Do we already have these laws? Do they just need to be enforced more strongly. Should we just 'get used to it' and acknowledge that the security services have done really well up to now, but they've missed a few recently for whatever reason.

I don't know. I'm not sure there is a right approach. I'm sure there's some wrong ones though.

 

[Scouse]

Perhaps looking at certain kinds of ISIS propaganda should be treated the same.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

If Mandela / the ANC were a going violent concern nowadays one of their prime ways of getting their message out - their terrorist and anti-government message - would be the internet.

The principle here is not one of propaganda - it's a freedom of speech issue. Radicalisation will not stop because we stop the free sharing (and free rebuffal) of ideas. It will just be driven into darker places rather than happening openly.

The idea that I'm too much of a child to be able to have radical ideas presented to me and I need to be "protected" from them has already been beaten. If we give that liberty up because of a small number of deaths by terrorists then we give governments the power to define what are "acceptable ideas".

No. We live with them. We argue, openly, against them. Freedom of speech is a totally separate issue from child pornography.

 

[ECA]

If anyone hasn't watched the Jihadis next door documentary yet... I'd recommend watching it.

 

[Job]

It would be nice if freedom of speech gave the extremists the rope they need to hang themselves, but it would seem we are soft on it because of religuon.
If I wrote a book, called it Jobs law.
Filled it with genocide, incest, murder, racism and sexism, plus calling for the murder on non believers, I would be arrested for hate crime and the book would be banned.
But the Koran and the Bible are immune simply because of context, in other words the law is bent to allow the masses their opium and to not 'offend' belief.

 

[Raven]

We should just follow Chinas lead, they are the only country who will survive the next 100 years with an ounce of the culture intact.

is islam legal in china - Google Search

'abnormal beards'

lol

Although, having a long ass beard, someone said to me I might get arrested the other day, after I got nice and tanned camping last weekend. Wouldn't be able to get away with that 2 years ago, brown guy in the office too.

 

[Deebs]

'abnormal beards'

lol

Although, having a long ass beard, someone said to me I might get arrested the other day, after I got nice and tanned camping last weekend. Wouldn't be able to get away with that 2 years ago, brown guy in the office too.

you snackbar you!

 

[andeh]

We should just follow Chinas lead, they are the only country who will survive the next 100 years with an ounce of the culture intact.

is islam legal in china - Google Search

this is hate speech

China is racist and xenophobic

diversity is our strength

Islam is a religion of peace

terrorism has nothing to do with Islam

DRUMPFFFF IS FINISHED

 

[Gumbo]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Nonono. These guys are terrorists, we're not going to realise in a few years time that they had a point, we're still going to think that it's unacceptable to blow yourself up at a concert, or drive a van into crowds before knifing people.

The idea that I'm too much of a child to be able to have radical ideas presented to me and I need to be "protected" from them has already been beaten. If we give that liberty up because of a small number of deaths by terrorists then we give governments the power to define what are "acceptable ideas".

No. We live with them. We argue, openly, against them. Freedom of speech is a totally separate issue from child pornography.

So it would be OK for you to watch Child Pornography, so long as you're not turned on by it? You should be allowed to make the judgement as to whether it's pornographic or not?

FFS

The law is made as to what is acceptable, you then live within that law or you get prosecuted. I'm sure a lot of people would like to make the viewing of ISIS propaganda an offence. I'm sure that a lot of people would think that standing up in a mosque or in the street and espousing violence to further a religious cause should be an offence. I think that on balance I'm cool with that. If more people think that way than don't then perhaps it should be considered. I think we're getting there.

 

[Moriath]

Nonono. These guys are terrorists, we're not going to realise in a few years time that they had a point, we're still going to think that it's unacceptable to blow yourself up at a concert, or drive a van into crowds before knifing people.

Just like the ira and now they are in government.

 

[Job]

Choudrys going to be released in a few months, will be interesting to see how he plays it.

 

[Gumbo]

Just like the ira and now they are in government.

You honestly believe that we're going to devolve a part of the UK to ISIS and there will be ISIS MPs elected who will refuse to take their seats up in the Commons?

Unless you do, your post is fucking idiotic..

 

[Raven]

Can give them Liverpool, no loss.