Your daily terrorist bullshit.

Wij

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Countries formerly colonised by Russia in wanting to join anti-Russian-invasion club shocker.
 

Wij

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Number 3 on that map for those not familiar with Europe.

The Kaliningrad oblast is just south west of it and filled with missiles.
 

Gwadien

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E.g. Lithuanians.

You shouldn’t get to decide which organisations you join because of your physical proximity to the Muscovite empire which is far more important than you.


View: https://twitter.com/LinkeviciusL/status/1484050171419926528
But then we invite countries to join our staunchly anti Russian pact with economic benefits.

I mean sure, Russia are defo the bad guys but it's kinda cold war mentality to ignore their side of the argument.

I mean, are we encouraging Ukraine to join us because it's mutually beneficial or because fuck you Russia?

Edit dunno why I quoted this, but yeah.
 

Wij

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But then we invite countries to join our staunchly anti Russian pact with economic benefits.

I mean sure, Russia are defo the bad guys but it's kinda cold war mentality to ignore their side of the argument.

I mean, are we encouraging Ukraine to join us because it's mutually beneficial or because fuck you Russia?

Edit dunno why I quoted this, but yeah.
Anyone can join NATO for mutual defense. Ukraine had no majority for NATO membership until Russia started seizing its territory and then surprisingly enough the idea of a mutual defence pact seemed really attractive to them. Russia doesn't get to tell other countries what to do. Especially those countries that have been part of its empire before and found the experience extremely unpleasant / deadly.
 

Gwadien

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Anyone can join NATO for mutual defense. Ukraine had no majority for NATO membership until Russia started seizing its territory and then surprisingly enough the idea of a mutual defence pact seemed really attractive to them. Russia doesn't get to tell other countries what to do. Especially those countries that have been part of its empire before and found the experience extremely unpleasant / deadly.
But We/NATO also tell other countries what to do.

I'm fairly sure if the US has economic sanctions on Russia, they wouldn't allow Ukraine to trade with them for instance.

Again, I just think the route to a peaceful solution isn't one where we ignore Russia's concerns and get on with it.

For example, it's pretty clear that Putin stays in power with his iron man routine, so we tell Ukraine to fuck off (for now) and agree that Russia also lets them stay neutral as a buffer state, then we wait until Russia implodes because Putin doesn't have an excuse to distract the Russian people with pointless wars.
 

Raven

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Or, we say it is up to the Ukrainians what they want to do, not Russia.

Edit, and frankly, defend their right to do so.
 
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Wij

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But We/NATO also tell other countries what to do.

I'm fairly sure if the US has economic sanctions on Russia, they wouldn't allow Ukraine to trade with them for instance.

Again, I just think the route to a peaceful solution isn't one where we ignore Russia's concerns and get on with it.

For example, it's pretty clear that Putin stays in power with his iron man routine, so we tell Ukraine to fuck off (for now) and agree that Russia also lets them stay neutral as a buffer state, then we wait until Russia implodes because Putin doesn't have an excuse to distract the Russian people with pointless wars.
Russia's 'concerns' are entirely manufactured to get people talking about the things it wants them to talk about. NATO would never invade Russia. Russia knows this and has zero concerns about it. It's a defence pact. Unlike the Warsaw Pact which was only ever invoked to put down rebellions of people in Warsaw Pact countries against their shitty governments. See also the CSTO in Belarus and Khazakstan.

It's now complaining that the UK has sent anti-tank missiles to Ukraine as though missiles with a half kilometre range designed to blow tanks apart are a serious threat to its territory. It's all bullshit. Their 'concerns' aren't designed for serious dialogue. They are to distract and then 'justify' whatever Russia chooses to do.

Dialogue and 'resets' with Putin have never achieved anything. Hard deterrence is the only thing that will.
 

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For example, if your neighbour has concerns that your 10 year old son isn't giving him blowjobs you don't come up with a plan to meet him halfway.
 

DaGaffer

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But We/NATO also tell other countries what to do.

I'm fairly sure if the US has economic sanctions on Russia, they wouldn't allow Ukraine to trade with them for instance.

Again, I just think the route to a peaceful solution isn't one where we ignore Russia's concerns and get on with it.

For example, it's pretty clear that Putin stays in power with his iron man routine, so we tell Ukraine to fuck off (for now) and agree that Russia also lets them stay neutral as a buffer state, then we wait until Russia implodes because Putin doesn't have an excuse to distract the Russian people with pointless wars.
No one forces anyone to join NATO, unlike the Warsaw Pact/Comecon that all of these nations were forced into at literal gunpoint for half a century.
 

Raven

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Russian leadership (Ie, Putin) is just upset that he has run out of money and power. Desperate and paranoid.
 

Embattle

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I still find it funny that in a number of those non NATO members Russian action is forcing them to consider joining, in the end any talk about NATO being the aggressors in this situation is just bullshit. Russia has already stolen a part of Ukraine and is heavily involved in other parts of it, all lead by a multi decade dictator who objects about not being invited to a democracy conference.
 

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Countries formerly colonised by Russia in wanting to join anti-Russian-invasion club shocker.
Of course. But don't expect Russia to sit there and do nothing about it.

It has a clear bearing on the narrative.
 

Wij

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Of course. But don't expect Russia to sit there and do nothing about it.

It has a clear bearing on the narrative.
Ukraine tried not being in NATO and it resulted in Russian invasion and an attempted puppet government that they had to overthrow. Maybe they think a different approach is worth a try and Putin can go fuck himself.

Frankly they should just seize all the assets that his oligarchs own in the west (which Putin claims 50% of) and sell them to fund anti-air weaponry in Ukraine. See how he likes them beans.
 

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Frankly they should just seize all the assets that his oligarchs own in the west (which Putin claims 50% of) and sell them to fund anti-air weaponry in Ukraine. See how he likes them beans.
We won't do that. The criminal class on our side of the pond like all of their money.

By criminal class on our side of the pond - I mean our rulers.

I simply don't give much of a shit about this tbh. It's just stupid humans being stupid. And we're just as stupid as any others.

West, east, china, russia, europe, UK, tories, dems, republicans. What a shower of shit the lot of it is. It's just a continuation of dumb human history down the ages, whilst we don't do anything about the *really* important stuff that faces us as a species.

It's just a bit more of this pointless crap:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY9P0QSxlnI

I mean - look how big Lithuania was in the 1400's. It's just pointless to care about it.
 

Wij

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We won't do that. The criminal class on our side of the pond like all of their money.

By criminal class on our side of the pond - I mean our rulers.

I simply don't give much of a shit about this tbh. It's just stupid humans being stupid. And we're just as stupid as any others.

West, east, china, russia, europe, UK, tories, dems, republicans. What a shower of shit the lot of it is. It's just a continuation of dumb human history down the ages, whilst we don't do anything about the *really* important stuff that faces us as a species.

It's just a bit more of this pointless crap:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY9P0QSxlnI

I mean - look how big Lithuania was in the 1400's. It's just pointless to care about it.
This is odd.
 

Scouse

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This is odd.
What?

The fact that I look at this territorial bullshit and think "what a fucking stupid species humans are" ?

Look at that animation. Tell me if in 500* years anyone will look at whatever border changes are going on today, and will go on tomorrow, and feel the anger the same way you're angry about Russia right now. Do you feel the same anger for all the other border changes - all of which have come at the genuine cost of human life?

That animation should be entitled "2500 years of knuckle-dragging idiocy".

I find it odd that most humans get angry about all of the wrong things when there's stuff that could unite us in our anger. Stuff that *really* matters. Stuff that saves lives, not destroys them.



*Edit: If we still have electricity/still exist
 

Wij

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Russian occupation has cost lives for centuries.

I care about the idea that a democratic country could be invaded, people killed, and a dictatorship put in its place.

I care about the countries currently suffering under brutal dictators who get killed for trying to change that.

“Horrible shit has happened for centuries so I don’t give a shit about it happening now.” Is not a particularly moral stance imo
 

Scouse

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“Horrible shit has happened for centuries so I don’t give a shit about it happening now.” Is not a particularly moral stance imo
I disagree. I think that my stance is a completely moral.

The alternative mindset that perpetuates that violence. You need that emotional investment to perpetuate the behaviours that humans exhibit that have lead to the conflicts that have drawn those maps.

The ONLY way to end that conflict is to detach yourself from it. If we all felt like this (and many do, but not enough), there wouldn't be war. What could be more moral than that?


Am I immune / hardened against the suffering? No. Of course not. But I've made a moral judgement that it's idiocy that leads to it - and we need to think a different way to stop this continuing to occur. And "us vs them" bullshit is just continuing the same mindset down through the ages.

Of course, I'm willing to concede (in fact I fully believe) that we ain't gonna change. I've said multiple times we don't make it. Our nature is to destroy ourselves. But it doesn't mean I have to pick a side and say "this one's better". It may well be - but in this context the picking a side thing is the biggest problem in the first place.

So, IMO, the moral thing to do is to point out when humans are focussing on idiocy, when there's much more important stuff we should be looking at. It's the moral way to act. Whether it gets ignored or not.
 

Wij

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The ONLY way to end that conflict is to detach yourself from it. If we all felt like this (and many do, but not enough), there wouldn't be war. What could be more moral than that?
There will always be those looking to take advantage and take the resources of those who choose not to defend themselves, hence the need to defend yourself to prevent worse things happening.

And that's not just humans. That occurs in all natural things. That's just life. You could be nihilistic, most of us choose not to be.
 

Scouse

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That's just life.
Acceptance of this as an unalterable fact of life is an intellectual failing.

We're supposed to be intelligent animals. We can therefore order our actions in more intelligent ways, instead of acting like chimpanzee tribes fighting over resources.

The vast majority of mankind chooses not to.


I won't bow to that idiocy. I'll continue to call it out for what it is.

Edit: Please do look at that link, it's very short.
 

Wij

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Acceptance of this as an unalterable fact of life is an intellectual failing.

We're supposed to be intelligent animals. We can therefore order our actions in more intelligent ways, instead of acting like chimpanzee tribes fighting over resources.

The vast majority of mankind chooses not to.


I won't bow to that idiocy. I'll continue to call it out for what it is.

Edit: Please do look at that link, it's very short.
You can choose not to invade your neighbours but you can’t choose for them not to invade you.

This is also a very long -winded way of avoiding stating that Putin invading Ukraine would be bad.
 

Wij

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Scouse in 1939 (as Hitler and Stalin's tanks cross the borders into Poland): "Fucking Poles with their Chimpanzee bullshit!"
 

Scouse

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BTW - I reject your assertion of nihilism. I absolutely have a moral centre - and life does have meaning - it's just that meaning is given to life by individuals. And that meaning doesn't have to be this shared tribal madness that leads to war.
 

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