Your daily terrorist bullshit.

[BloodOmen]

Load of rubbish. You can't come up with a better solution (how exactly are we supposed to even get our heads around dealing with someone who is prepared to walk into the middle of a bunch of children and blow themselves up?) because there is no better solution but the alternative isn't locking them up en masse and torturing them ffs. What about the families that would get ripped apart because one of their relatives was tortured? Fuck them because they're brown, right? And their sorrow isn't as important as ours, right?

It's a difficult problem and one to which there isn't an immediate answer.

It's got fuck all to do with "them" being brown, being a Muslim does not have a skin tone requirement attached to it, so don't even try to play that card.

I agree, there is no good way to go about it, realistically what can they do though? they don't have the manpower or funding to follow every single terror suspect and as we've seen it only takes a single one of them to commit an atrocity.

It basically boils down to this

What are we willing to do to prevent even a single one of these incidents? and is it worth it morally compared to the consequence of inaction?

Could you stand face to face with one of these parents who has lost a child and try to explain how you knew about said individual but had no surveillance on them despite knowing they were a clear danger to society?

 

[TdC]

No, you can't condone torture ever. Ever. Remember the middle ages?

People didn't admit being whatever the fuck they were accused of because they actually were witches, gingers, protestants, Scottish or whatever else. They said whatever the fuck their torturers' masters wanted them to say just to make the pain stop.

This was known even as far back as old Rome (Ulpian). Its been argued for almost 2000 years that torture does not result in reliable information(not to mention being a really fucking evil thing to do to someone). Its inadmissible in court due to art 15 of the UN convention against torture and ofc it's against local and international law as well as all kinds of treaties. And thank fuck for that.

That is all. Carry on.

 

[old.user4556]

From the internetz:

1. This has nothing to do with Islam.
2. The guy was a mentally ill 'lone wolf'.
3. Those who object to points 1 and 2 are racist bigots.
4. Change FB profile to flag of inflicted country.
5. Light some candles, hold a vigil and go on a peace march.
6. Wait for the next slaughter to happen.
7. Repeat.

 

[Raven]

What we need is some sort of snoopers charter.

Hang on!

 

[Raven]

From the internetz:

1. This has nothing to do with Islam.
2. The guy was a mentally ill 'lone wolf'.
3. Those who object to points 1 and 2 are racist bigots.
4. Change FB profile to flag of inflicted country.
5. Light some candles, hold a vigil and go on a peace march.
6. Wait for the next slaughter to happen.
7. Repeat.

Don't forget, Raise awareness over Twitter to show how much you care and how much it has personally effected you, despite being dead behind the eyes.

 

[BloodOmen]

Social Media = Sand
Mobile Phones = Head

basically

 

[BloodOmen]

No, you can't condone torture ever. Ever. Remember the middle ages?

People didn't admit being whatever the fuck they were accused of because they actually were witches, gingers, protestants, Scottish or whatever else. They said whatever the fuck their torturers' masters wanted them to say just to make the pain stop.

This was known even as far back as old Rome (Ulpian). Its been argued for almost 2000 years that torture does not result in reliable information(not to mention being a really fucking evil thing to do to someone). Its inadmissible in court due to art 15 of the UN convention against torture and ofc it's against local and international law as well as all kinds of treaties. And thank fuck for that.

That is all. Carry on.

Then again - come up with a better solution, because as far as I can see, there isn't one due to red tape and human rights. What you're basically saying is "Fuck all we can do, stick your head in the sand until the next attack."

 

[Raven]

Stop bombing the shit out of them on a daily basis.
Better (not necessarily more) intelligence.
Do more to remove extremists from society...though that is the tricky one, hard to do without upsetting certain members of our society.

Edit, all torture will get you is what you want to hear, not necessarily the truth.

 

[BloodOmen]

Stop bombing the shit out of them on a daily basis.
Better (not necessarily more) intelligence.
Do more to remove extremists from society...though that is the tricky one, hard to do without upsetting certain members of our society.

Obvious things like removing hate preachers, stop hate preachers from talking in colleges etc or other public events should be the first on the list.

 

[TdC]

Blood, duder, we are already employing the best possible solutions to combat threats of this and other sorts. The methods used are only getting more and more refined. If there was a better solution we'd already be using it.

Torture is not, and never was a solution for anything.

 

[DaGaffer]

Come up with a better solution then? let me save you time, you can't. As I said above, I don't condone torture (under normal circumstances) this is going beyond normal now though, these bastards are cowards, stick them in a room with a few trained interrogators for a few weeks and they'll fold like a paper fucking plate with a wealth of intel.

I'd rather see terror suspects tortured to the brink than see one of these (what is now becoming a common thing) incidents take place, ripping families apart and ruining futures.

If torture actually worked, you might have a point, but its been proved time and again that it doesn't. Then there's the small matter of once they can hold and torture suspects who haven't actually committed a crime, we're all fucked.

 

[BloodOmen]

Meh fine, I'm just pissed off at this shit. Caused by the very Governments that are failing to protect people, makes my blood boil.

 

[TdC]

Meh fine, I'm just pissed off at this shit. Caused by the very Governments that are failing to protect people, makes my blood boil.

Sure dude, I totally get that you're angry as all hell. I'm angry too. That's fine. Anger is a perfectly good thing.

Just stay controlled. Be constructive. Never let your anger take you to places where you lower your level of humanity, no matter how satisfying you feel that would be. It won't work out you see, and you'll end up feeling terrible and will have binned your humanity for nothing.

Edit: note I use "you" in the figurative sense here. Not literally you as in you, BloodOmen.

 

[CorNokZ]

i can't fathom the consequences, but what would happen if The West pulled all hostile forces out of the Middle East? Just pulled the plug and be like "fuck it, you can have your oil and sand"

Would they leave us alone as well or would it become a huge training ground for terrorists? And how long before Israel was attacked?

 

[BloodOmen]

i can't fathom the consequences, but what would happen if The West pulled all hostile forces out of the Middle East? Just pulled the plug and be like "fuck it, you can have your oil and sand"

Would they leave us alone as well or would it become a huge training ground for terrorists? And how long before Israel was attacked?

They'd find something else to moan about I'm sure.

 

[sayward]

From the internetz:

1. This has nothing to do with Islam.
2. The guy was a mentally ill 'lone wolf'.
3. Those who object to points 1 and 2 are racist bigots.
4. Change FB profile to flag of inflicted country.
5. Light some candles, hold a vigil and go on a peace march.
6. Wait for the next slaughter to happen.
7. Repeat.

Sorry but this time I have changed my profile picture because I spend so much time in Manchester, specifically nowadays to go to the Arena. Hardly any time at all since I was there. All Creeds and colours matter everywhere it's just when it is somewhere you love that it hits harder.

 

[Job]

If you had a button that would remove every last Muslim from the planet...would you press it?

 

[old.user4556]

Sorry but this time I have changed my profile picture because I spend so much time in Manchester, specifically nowadays to go to the Arena. Hardly any time at all since I was there. All Creeds and colours matter everywhere it's just when it is somewhere you love that it hits harder.

Don't apologise, no need, but it is indeed true that's how these things go.

 

[BloodOmen]

If you had a button that would remove every last Muslim from the planet...would you press it?

No, because painting them all with the same brush is wrong.

 

[Deebs]

Being a parent and remembering things I have done in the past when my children were very young I actually cried a lot today. I do not know the answer but I do know that something needs to change when children become the targets (regardless of who they are). It is time for some form of action, whether it is withdrawal or offensive.

Work toward achieving peace in the world, not continue to throw fuel on the fires that already rage.

 

[BloodOmen]

Bomber identified as 22 year old Salman Abedi

 

[old.user4556]

And here's me thinking it'd be John Smith or Robert Brown.

 

[BloodOmen]

Shocker to no one I'm sure, he was born here too in 1994.

 

[Job]

Its difficult to extend empathy out of our own context...you can do it with characters in a film..sad music, lingering shots, building life stories.
But we push that from our minds and in the purest sense of the word are racist towards the people our bombs murder.
Heres the killing, happens far away...rarely do we see grieving parents or desperate tweets, but it just nudges our..'oh dear, but shit happens over there' conscience for a minute or two...then on to the next news item.
We kill children in drone strikes and the people know we don't give a shit.

At what point can we face this down, the hypocrisy is beyond belief, the utter disregard, the total disconnection of blame...yet here we are, calling them the scum of humanity.

Civilian casualties from U.S. drone strikes - Wikipedia

 

[Scouse]

Then again - come up with a better solution, because as far as I can see, there isn't one due to red tape and human rights. What you're basically saying is "Fuck all we can do, stick your head in the sand until the next attack."

There is fuck all we can do about lone wolf attacks without turning the UK into something way way worse than Nazi Germany ever aspired to be.

In terms of pure numbers terrorist attacks kill tiny amounts of people and I don't see you getting this angry about the two thousand road deaths a year that leave families destitute and children parentless or the tens of thousands who perish early for other entirely preventable reasons.

But because a small number of people die in an abhorent tragedy you posit making sweeping changes to our entire society that would make it hell to live in for everyone. Real hell. And not only that - the irony is that your ideas are exactly what ISIS would *love* us to do to ourselves in response to their pathetic attacks.

Your argument is born of a lack of education, an over-emotional unthinking response and fear.

The answer is to do this: nothing.

We have a solution to one man attacks. It's called taking it on the chin - and if we do that we win.

 

[Embattle]

We kill children in drone strikes and the people know we don't give a shit.

I think people do give a shit but it'll have less importance to most because it isn't local, plus I doubt many in the west see them as the same even though there is loss of life both since one is a military target with the aim to minimise civilian casualties and the other is to maximise civilian casualties.

It's called taking it on the chin - and if we do that we win.

Which in reality most people will do as time passes.

 

[old.user4556]

There is fuck all we can do about lone wolf attacks without turning the UK into something way way worse than Nazi Germany ever aspired to be.

In terms of pure numbers terrorist attacks kill tiny amounts of people and I don't see you getting this angry about the two thousand road deaths a year that leave families destitute and children parentless or the tens of thousands who perish early for other entirely preventable reasons.

But because a small number of people die in an abhorent tragedy you posit making sweeping changes to our entire society that would make it hell to live in for everyone. Real hell. And not only that - the irony is that your ideas are exactly what ISIS would *love* us to do to ourselves in response to their pathetic attacks.

Your argument is born of a lack of education, an over-emotional unthinking response and fear.

The answer is to do this: nothing.

We have a solution to one man attacks. It's called taking it on the chin - and if we do that we win.

A hammer at 100 mph onto a nail. I didn't want to go into this, it was too soon, but you're exactly right.

Youth stabbings outweigh this event - BAN ALL KNIVES.

 

[Deebs]

In terms of pure numbers terrorist attacks kill tiny amounts of people and I don't see you getting this angry about the two thousand road deaths a year that leave families destitute and children parentless or the tens of thousands who perish early for other entirely preventable reasons.

Let's stop with the tree hugger syndrome. There are a thousand different things that occur everyday which impact the lives of thousands around the world. I suspect that when horses were the main transport children and adults were still being killed by horses not being managed correctly.

This is a thread about terrorism and now about an attack which was specifically targeted at a younger age than those of adulthood. It is not about the quality of air, the drunk drivers or indeed the drivers that sleep at the controls of a tram.

 

[Moriath]

Being a parent and remembering things I have done in the past when my children were very young I actually cried a lot today. I do not know the answer but I do know that something needs to change when children become the targets (regardless of who they are). It is time for some form of action, whether it is withdrawal or offensive.

Work toward achieving peace in the world, not continue to throw fuel on the fires that already rage.

Why is a child so different from someone over 18.

At 20 or 30 most people still have their parents and still the same amount of people to be sad about them and maybe even dependants who rely on them.

It should be a person is a person. Age shouldnt come in to it.

 

[Job]

You cannot even remotely compare other fatal events..this terrorism has an agenda, a following, indiscriminate carnage, no single conflict, no chance to avoid, every knife attack has a story..anger, honour, mugging, envy or jealousy.
The numbers are irrelevant, its the motivation that is terrifying, we are up against people who follow a cult and are only constrained in their destruction by logistics.
They are literally zombies with bombs.