Your daily terrorist bullshit.

[Deebs]

Why is a child so different from someone over 18.

At 20 or 30 most people still have their parents and still the same amount of people to be sad about them and maybe even dependants who rely on them.

It should be a person is a person. Age shouldnt come in to it.

So an 8 yr old should be treated the same as a 26 yr old then?

 

[Scouse]

Let's stop with the tree hugger syndrome. There are a thousand different things that occur everyday which impact the lives of thousands around the world. I suspect that when horses were the main transport children and adults were still being killed by horses not being managed correctly.

This is a thread about terrorism and now about an attack which was specifically targeted at a younger age than those of adulthood. It is not about the quality of air, the drunk drivers or indeed the drivers that sleep at the controls of a tram.

Take it in isolation if you like. It's a flawed methodology though.

Lets talk the real thing that's important: numbers.

Telling little Tommy or Harriett that their daddy died in a terrorist incident will definitely have a long lasting effect - and a substantively different one from saying daddy died in a car crash. But the fact is - daddy's dead - and it's not the "how" or "why" that causes long lasting damage to children. Speaking from experience - it's the years upon years of being without a parent and their loving influence, their education, their moderation of the other parent's excess, the example of how to live as a couple and deal with what life brings.

Your daughter would be immensely less well off without your influence. In the long run it's the absence of a @Deebs that causes the damage - not how you popped said clogs.


So that brings us back round to numbers. The most harm, to the most people. That's where we should be focussing our efforts.


That's totally aside from the fact that we know the only way to fight lone-wolf nutjobs is to make life an utter shithole for all of us, including our kids, so is therefore a non-starter anyway.

Feel bad. Move on. Focus on things we can do stuff about, instead of raging in futility at stuff that we have no control over. That's not "tree hugger" - that's rational, reasonable sense.

 

[Job]

There is fuck all we can do about lone wolf attacks without turning the UK into something way way worse than Nazi Germany ever aspired to be.

In terms of pure numbers terrorist attacks kill tiny amounts of people and I don't see you getting this angry about the two thousand road deaths a year that leave families destitute and children parentless or the tens of thousands who perish early for other entirely preventable reasons.

But because a small number of people die in an abhorent tragedy you posit making sweeping changes to our entire society that would make it hell to live in for everyone. Real hell. And not only that - the irony is that your ideas are exactly what ISIS would *love* us to do to ourselves in response to their pathetic attacks.

Your argument is born of a lack of education, an over-emotional unthinking response and fear.

The answer is to do this: nothing.

We have a solution to one man attacks. It's called taking it on the chin - and if we do that we win.

We have all ready made huge changes in our society, it is so ubiquitous that you have accepted it as the norm, it will get worse and worse...how does random stops and searches, checks for your compulsary ID card, restrictions on laptops, tablets, armed flight attendents, army in all areas of public gathering..because thats whats on its way.
You are basing your argument on numbers...car accidents dont have an agenda, cars are not out to kill us, or prove a point through carnage, they are accidents, there is no correlation or comparison to make.
Go and research Belfast in the 70s to get an idea of where things can end up.

 

[Deebs]

Take it in isolation if you like. It's a flawed methodology though.

Lets talk the real thing that's important: numbers.

Telling little Tommy or Harriett that their daddy died in a terrorist incident will definitely have a long lasting effect - and a substantively different one from saying daddy died in a car crash. But the fact is - daddy's dead - and it's not the "how" or "why" that causes long lasting damage to children. Speaking from experience - it's the years upon years of being without a parent and their loving influence, their education, their moderation of the other parent's excess, the example of how to live as a couple and deal with what life brings.

Your daughter would be immensely less well off without your influence. In the long run it's the absence of a @Deebs that causes the damage - not how you popped said clogs.


So that brings us back round to numbers. The most harm, to the most people. That's where we should be focussing our efforts.


That's totally aside from the fact that we know the only way to fight lone-wolf nutjobs is to make life an utter shithole for all of us, including our kids, so is therefore a non-starter anyway.

Feel bad. Move on. Focus on things we can do stuff about, instead of raging in futility at stuff that we have no control over. That's not "tree hugger" - that's rational, reasonable sense.

The point I am trying to make, is not about the different ways you are killed, but the fact that this thread is about terrorism, not some tree hugging vendetta tp save the world. Take it to another thread.

 

[Scouse]

We get it @Job. You're so terrified that you have no objective outlook. But that makes you and people like you part of the problem as you're the type of person that demands governments make horrible changes to our lives in response to low-numbers of horrid terrorist attacks.

It matters not one bit if a car isn't out to kill someone. The long-term effect is still the same.

 

[Scouse]

The point I am trying to make, is not about the different ways you are killed, but the fact that this thread is about terrorism, not some tree hugging vendetta tp save the world. Take it to another thread.

Absolutely disagree. If you don't like a bit of perspective (which is clearly badly needed) then fair enough. But the points I'm making are directly related to terrorism and our human responses to them.

The points I've made are being made in the context of terrorist attacks and how we should view and respond to them.

 

[Deebs]

We get it @Job. You're so terrified that you have no objective outlook. But that makes you and people like you part of the problem as you're the type of person that demands governments make horrible changes to our lives in response to low-numbers of horrid terrorist attacks.

It matters not one bit if a car isn't out to kill someone. The long-term effect is still the same.

The long term effect is that not every driver is a terrorist. Take it to another thread if you want to save the world from shit drivers, shit air, shit planes, shit global warming.

 

[Deebs]

Absolutely disagree. If you don't like a bit of perspective (which is clearly badly needed) then fair enough. But the points I'm making are directly related to terrorism and our human responses to them.

The points I've made are being made in the context of terrorist attacks and how we should view and respond to them.

what the fuck?

How does a car killing people relate to terrorism? Especially when driven by drunk drivers? What fucking planet are you on?

 

[Scouse]

OK @Deebs. I'd have thought it was pretty obvious: Perspective.

I was directly responding to a post that was advocating turning our country into a rampaging torturing nazi state in response to a single bombing and 20-odd deaths. I was providing perspective.

Yes, the terrorist deaths are horrid - and particularly emotive - but lets get some perspective here.

 

[Deebs]

Let's put this thread into perspective. The parents or children who lost a loved one are not fucking interested in the number of people who died from a wreckless car drivers, poor air or anything else. Their loss was from an act of terrorism. Nothing else.

 

[Deebs]

OK @Deebs. I'd have thought it was pretty obvious: Perspective.

I was directly responding to a post that was advocating turning our country into a rampaging torturing nazi state in response to a single bombing and 20-odd deaths. I was providing perspective.

Yes, the terrorist deaths are horrid - and particularly emotive - but lets get some perspective here.

But you brought non terrorist agendas into it which is wrong. Take it to another thread. Simple.

 

[Scouse]

Let's put this thread into perspective. The parents or children who lost a loved one are not fucking interested in the number of people who died from a wreckless car drivers, poor air or anything else. Their loss was from an act of terrorism. Nothing else.

The parents or children who lost loved ones to wreckless car drivers are absolutely interested in the number of people who were killed and the devestation caused by cars. Totally. - and there's a shitload more of them experiencing the same level of pain and loss.

However - if you don't like cars as an example - how about straight up murder? We lose about 600 every year to murder. Most of that is related to inequalities of wealth, poor education, woefully underfunded social support. Stuff that is well within our capabilities to improve. Yet we accept this as a fact of life and are no where near as het up about it as terrorism.

But you brought non terrorist agendas into it which is wrong. Take it to another thread. Simple.

Absolutely not. Your attempt to force terrorism as a cause of death to be taken in isolation is wrong. Death is the issue which causes the long-term damage - not the cause of death.


@Deebs - I get it. I really do. Totally. But whilst understandable I think it's also somewhat misplaced and would serve us as a species better if we could feel that rage and anger where the most harm actually occurs.

 

[Deebs]

The parents or children who lost loved ones to wreckless car drivers are absolutely interested in the number of people who were killed by wrecklss drivers. Totally. - and there's a shitload more of them.

However - if you don't like cars as an example - how about straight up murder? We lose about 600 every year to murder. Most of that is related to inequalities of wealth, poor education, woefully underfunded social support. Stuff that is well within our capabilities to improve. Yet we accept this as a fact of life and are no where near as het up about it as terrorism.


Absolutely not. Your attempt to force terrorism as a cause of death to be taken in isolation is wrong. Death is the issue which causes the long-term damage - not the cause of death.


@Deebs - I get it. I really do. Totally. But whilst understandable I think it's also somewhat misplaced and would serve us as a species better if we could feel that rage and anger where the most harm actually occurs.

How is this related to terrorism? This thread is about that. Not drunk drivers, not shit air quality. There are other threads which discuss your concerns. Take it there.

 

[Scouse]

How is this related to terrorism?

Perspective. That's how it's related. As stated. Perspective.

I'd rather see terror suspects tortured to the brink

THIS sort of shit happens every time a terrorist attack happens. And it's very dangerous absolutely abhorrent bullshit. Condoning torture (which @TdC pointed out, has been proven ineffective, dangerous yadda yadda) - of suspects (not even guilty parties!). Round up people based on <spurious evidence> and <apply hot coals>

That is why looking at terrorism in isolation is wrong. Most harm to most people is more important than terrorism. Which is why I brought it up.

 

[Deebs]

Perspective. That's how it's related. As stated. Perspective.

Happy to see your informed responses related to terrorism in this thread. Just not anything else.

 

[old.user4556]

Perspective.

Worth posting this again.

 

[ECA]

"since ww2, no mass armies have killed each other", why not include 9/11 lol.

"Since stabbing last week in pub, police report no knife crime".

 

[Embattle]

It is standing on your soap box next to someones coffin imo.

 

[Raven]

Agree, a time and a place to tell people how to think.

 

[Job]

No matter how objective you are trying to be, it isnt about numbers, because they tell only a small part of the story, quite clearly this country allready is under a security lock down, but obviously occasionally they get through, so the numbers that get through is hardly a measure of the scale of the threat, without any security that guy could have easily stockpiled a huge quantity of explosives under the stage...and we know he would want to.
Are we prepared to live a life like a frickin prey animal in the wild and put up with having to second guess every possible angle of attack simpky because the numbers are manageable.

 

[Scouse]

It is standing on your soap box next to someones coffin imo.

I don't see anyone here who's been directly affected by this tragedy.

I do see a mob here calling for indescrimiate torture based on suspicion. (Is that not telling people how to think @Raven?)

Get off your faux high-horses. You've not lost a sister or brother (and if you had you can bet your arse I wouldn't have brought this argument up yet - I'm not insensitive).

You make your arguments where they're happening - and some are calling for torture. That sort of idiocy needs to be faced up to - it's the same as facing up to people who call for terrorism. Torture of this kind is state terrorism - which is a hell of a lot more dangerous to us all than madboy Jihadi John and his home-made nail-bomb.

 

[Deebs]

I don't see anyone here who's been directly affected by this tragedy.

Not directly but as a parent I am so upset for those who lost someone, child or adult.

 

[Moriath]

So an 8 yr old should be treated the same as a 26 yr old then?

In so much as if they have died in a terrorist act or other then the death of a 8 year old should be no more shocking than that of a 30 year old yes.

Each life should have the same value.

 

[Deebs]

In so much as if they have died in a terrorist act or other then the death of a 8 year old should be no more shocking than that of a 30 year old yes.

Each life should have the same value.

No, the older you are the more you have experienced life. A 98 yr old is not the same as an 8yr old. For one, we know what the 98 yr old did, but we don't know know how the 8 yr old could have shaped the world.

 

[Job]

Here we go now if it isnt someone you know its just statistics.
The house liberal is morphing into an evil scientist.


Anyway just came to say the Guard as usual has shut down all comments except football and the flower show...yup...fingers in the ears Liberals never let you down.

 

[Job]

I don't see anyone here who's been directly affected by this tragedy.

I do see a mob here calling for indescrimiate torture based on suspicion. (Is that not telling people how to think @Raven?)

Get off your faux high-horses. You've not lost a sister or brother (and if you had you can bet your arse I wouldn't have brought this argument up yet - I'm not insensitive).

You make your arguments where they're happening - and some are calling for torture. That sort of idiocy needs to be faced up to - it's the same as facing up to people who call for terrorism. Torture of this kind is state terrorism - which is a hell of a lot more dangerous to us all than madboy Jihadi John and his home-made nail-bomb.

But it isnt is it Scouse..the public reaction to terrorist carnage is what starts wars...torturing suspects just gets amnesty international and a load of armchair activists all hot under the collar.
There was no widespread revolt against Guatamala bay outside of the usual hand wringer brigade.

 

[Gwadien]

bore off job.

 

[Embattle]

US leak of Manchester attacker's name strikes new blow to intelligence sharing

 

[Raven]

Military now being deployed.

UK threat level raised to highest level - BBC News

Good thing before a general election

*tinfoil hat*

Edit, I bet I don't see any in Northampton.

 

[Gwadien]

Military now being deployed.

UK threat level raised to highest level - BBC News

Good thing before a general election

*tinfoil hat*

Edit, I bet I don't see any in Northampton.

Nothing safer than a bunch of dudes carrying guns.

I mean, it's just kinda dumb. Perfect target.