Your daily terrorist bullshit.

[Scouse]

Self detention.

I feel that's a very oversimplistic view of the world (and you @Tom).

Consider, for one minute, a person, not Assange, that IS being abused and hounded by a country in the same/similar manner. An innocent person being abused by a state.

This innocent man has the state's vast apparatus moved against him - so ducks into another state's embassy to claim political assylum to escape victimisation. He is then subject to arbitrary detention and his life is effectively over.

Consider this for an innocent man. (Not Assange). Consider that this innocent man knows he'll be fucked over by a state, because states do have a long track record of doing just that. Lets pretend, for argument's sake, that state is China and we've got an extradition treaty with them.

What alternative would that innocent man have? Redress by the courts cannot help in this case. So, question is: Would you, personally, like to see him arrested and abused by that state?


I'm guessing not. Because you're not utter cunts, and you can see that those situations can and do arise. That's why there's the UN's working group on arbitrary detention. Because state actors do unfairly victimise individuals for political reasons and humans should be free from that.

I suspect that your answer above is because you think Assange is guilty, or just a cunt. But please, not everyone is. So, given the circumstances above, what's your answer to that question?

 

[Tom]

I don't know if he's guilty. I suspect he's a cunt (Wikileaks is hardly unbiased). But he's as subject to the rule of law as the rest of us. He chose to come to the UK, he chose to skip bail and remain in someone's embassy.

I think the UK has a fairly decent judicial track record. Not perfect, but better than most. I have little sympathy for him and I don't really believe that there was some grand conspiracy to extradite him to the US.

 

[Scouse]

Regardless of that, could you answer the question please @Tom?

 

[DaGaffer]

The whole Swedish thing has always felt extremely dubious to me; the one country where the burden of proof for rape is on the accused rather than the accuser and two women come forward, who actually went to the police about something else, days after the event and who had hung out in public events with Assange in the intervening time, and then it became a rape investigation?

Then a prosecutor who could have progressed the case but seemed quite happy to let Assange sit in an embassy for years instead. On a personal level I've always thought he was an egotistical twat, but the whole thing looks well fishy,

 

[Scouse]

The thing is - it's easily sorted now. All the UK has to do is say "nope, the US has no interest in him and we're not interested in extraditing him". But we won't - because the US have said that arresting him is a priority and we're lapdogs...

The arbitrary detention thing stands tbpfh.

On a personal level I've always thought he was an egotistical twat

Totally. But we can't go around arresting people because they're cunts or most of us would be in jail.

 

[Scouse]

I don't really believe that there was some grand conspiracy to extradite him to the US.

US admits they're after him as "a priority".

And it's quite obviously political - support for Wikileaks when it's in their interests, condemnation when they're the subject...

 

[Job]

Im pretty sure hes happy to face the music.
Ok..Ive banged Pamela Anderson...nothing left to prove.

 

[Embattle]

Totally. But we can't go around arresting people because they're cunts or most of us would be in jail.

He may well be but that isn't the reason for his arrest in either case, courts always take a very dim view of things such as breaching bail, contempt, etc.

 

[Scouse]

Come on @Embattle - have a go at answering the question I asked.

Or do you and @Tom not actually believe that that situation arises? That state actors should always have the upper hand because they act reasonably? Surely you don't think that really?

The "reason for his arrest" would clearly be a technicality. I'm sure you both have expressed in the past a distaste for hiding behind technicalities. The law is an ass, we all understand that, an ass that can be abused. In this case it's clearly being abused. There's zero reason, if the UK and the US were to act in an open and honest matter, that they couldn't come out and say "the US want him, and the UK is happy to honour that extradition warrant".

But we don't. Our governments are bullying scum, regardless of what Assange may or may not be - and our governments have the added benefit of being unaccountable.

 

[Tom]

Consider that this innocent man knows he'll be fucked over by a state

I don't accept this premise.

 

[Scouse]

I don't accept this premise.

You don't accept that this premise can ever exist?

We're not saying in this case, of course. That's why I chose China as the example as surely there are many examples of injustice you yourself can name involving them? Or should I have picked Saudi Arabia - perhaps we'll extradite someone based on a religious law they broke?

Fair enough. But you delude yourself.

 

[Embattle]

Courts decide such things not people such as you or for that matter popular opinion, something you no doubt were quite happy with when it came to the legal brexit challenge.

 

[Tom]

You don't accept that this premise can ever exist?

Not here, no. There simply isn't the level of organisation, competence and secrecy required. Look how long they struggled to get rid of Abu Hamza.

 

[Talivar]

Not like we managed to cover up decades of child abuse from highest to lowest level or anything

 

[Raven]

Explosion in Manchester.

24 hour news just got a massive hard on.

 

[old.user4556]

Reading Twitter. Some saying it's a popped balloon? Wtf?

 

[Moriath]

Deaths confirmed after Manchester Arena blast reports - BBC News

 

[Shagrat]

Looks like total chaos atm

 

[BloodOmen]

Christ :/

 

[Gwadien]

Popped speaker/balloon.

If that's the case then fuck me we're a country living in fear.

 

[Gray]

Yeah seems it may have been a couple of helium balloons, but I don't know you know...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nimEKyMTns


That looks far too significant to be just a balloon popping...

A few people where I work have gone the gig tonight, hope they're okay...

 

[BloodOmen]

That's not a balloon, that was defo an explosion.... could be mind, i'm no explosion expert, seemed a bit loud/way too flashy for a balloon for me like.

 

[ECA]

Reddit thread says eyewitness said 20-30 dead/injured.

 

[Gray]

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It appears that Manchester PD have pulled a man out of a car and arrested him<a href="News about #ManchesterBombing on Twitter">#ManchesterBombing</a> <a href="News about #manchesterexplosion on Twitter">#manchesterexplosion</a> <a href="News about #ArianaGrandeConcert on Twitter">#ArianaGrandeConcert</a> <a href="Maine First Media on Twitter">pic.twitter.com/F2bYGuBKTH</a></p>&mdash; Maine First Media (@MaineFirstMedia) <a href="
View: https://twitter.com/MaineFirstMedia/status/866800389575802880
">May 22, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Gray]

Few things popping up on the news feeds that Oldham hospital is on lockdown following gunshots and a possible hostage situation.

Hmmm

 

[BloodOmen]

Update

19 Confirmed dead, 50 injured - confirmed as a terrorist incident.

 

[BloodOmen]

Nailbomb people reckon

 

[fettoken]

Fuck. Bombing a concert with teenagers, turns ones stomach. Hopefully none of you peeps has kids/relatives going.

Also Islamist apologists saying "but IRA" can fuck off.

 

[Job]

Multiple levels of security, blast barriers, armed police, bag searches, metal detectors...public events are now on par with military establishments, and still its so easy to do.
Just another nail in the coffin for muslim integration.
If it is another Allah drone.

 

[Raven]

Fucking disgusting whatever way you look at it. No bombing is acceptable but to target somewhere that you know will be predominately kids is somehow a new low.