wtf are we gone get now ?

[Bracken]

This whole arguement is getting blown up way out of proportion. Lets just accept whats happen and learn from it. Namely STOP ACING RELICS as there is no need to do so.

BTW don't call me Anal as my nobby styles are like a bunch of grapes today and all you do is remind me of them

People won't stop AC'ing relics. Nothing you or I say or do will change that and this certainly won't - if anything I reckon it will just spur them on.

And try Anusol, it's pretty good

 

[Duzic]

TT betrayed their own realm.

TT might have started a civil war.

look what u started bram

 

[Bracken]

Haha this is so funny go go TT

Guys you forget its all okay because they pay their subs an are nice ppl irl

What goes around comes around ?

You forget that some of us adding zerging ACing n00bs (which is what we are right?) used to play alongside you and so know how you used to play before you were k00l. Which makes comments like that just make you sound like you've turned into a ****.

 

[raid]

I'm prety sure the US felt very bad over Pearl Harbour (japanese AC raid) or 9/11 (alqaida AC raid), too bad for them.

and what about a scenario where US weakens defense of one of its military bases, an US citizen notices it and goes off to announce it on a discussion board, which is commonly read by japanese military or alqaida? (this thread)

 

[Sharkith]

People who have rerolled, has the ACing by Albion influenced the decision to reroll at all?

Indeed it did. Now this is how it worked. NFDGG's 1-3 (this includes people outside of NFD btw so more than NFD have been affected) were considering their options over the last week because things have become very hit an miss recently for FG RvR.

We are trying to decide if it was right to go and make things worse for people like TT, SC, Da Police and many of the other great people we play against. Some of our group (NFDGG2) really did not want to go because of time pressures and a load of other reasons why we should stay. We had a list of ten reasons to discuss about the move.

Then a small group on the server AC'ed the relic right in the middle of that discussion and reminded us just how selfish people have and can be on this server.

We kind of just thought - fuck it lets leave them to it and within 12 hours NFD was born on Avalon. The raid was crucial to changing the mood of the discussion and now we are seeing the repurcussions.

TT are doing what every Alb, Hib and Mid guild should have done a long time ago (AoD also did it) this kind of answer should have been given to the people who take great joy in doing something antisocial a long time ago.

Those of you now crying about TT taking a decision that affects the whole realm are missing the real villans of the show - the AC'ers. Surely you could unite behind TT and say - hey we don't like this and if you do it we will simply avoid defending it and allow the enemy the chance to take it back whenever.

TT have made a positive statement - it is easy for people like Muly and Bracken to attack them - and yet what have the contributed to the situation - nothing nada! Bracken mate - look at what is happening clearly we could never have stopped people ACing but you can stop them enjoying it. One way to do that is by simply agreeing that such behaviour will not be rewarded and the keeps will be lowered and left undefended.

Your missing the chance to actually come out on the right side by demonstrating that the realm can react positively by saying - "You AC'ed? rofl monkeyboy we ain't defending your relic...." Look at successful servers like Avalon - they have accommodated all players and tried to positively organise themselves. People who break the agreements get punished. Look here - all we get is whine and counter whine - in all your whine you have done nothing constructive both you and Muly.

Now tell me why you find it so objectionable again? A guild decides it doesn't like something and it makes that statement. Do you support ACing Bracken? Do you Muly? If you don't then surely you have to agree that in fact what they have done is quite responsible. All I see you doing is spitting out your dummies.

 

[Muylaetrix]

Jesus Muy, next you will be comparing this to the concentration camps. Get real please, it's a fucking game fgs.

how convenient to just attack a silly example and ignore the contens of the message.

Out Of Prime Time Attack : you might not like the tactic, it might happen at an inconvenient hour for you. too bad. your loss. the game DOES NOT STOP when you log out. get over it or go play a game where things like this are NOT a LEGAL GAME MECHANIC and nothing affects your game while you are not online.

fucking your own realm is betrayal, treason and sabotage.

i rather use unconventional tactics (as long as they are legal !!!) than be a traitor.

zerging, adding, acing, ... are all legal ingame actions and NOT against the CoC or SoTG.

 

[Icebreaker]

.

how convenient to just attack a silly example and ignore the contens of the message.

Lowering A Relic Keeps Level : you might not like the tactic. too bad. your loss. the game DOES NOT STOP when you lower a keep level. get over it or go play a game where things like this are NOT a LEGAL GAME MECHANIC and nothing affects your game while you havent claimed the relic keep.

zerging, adding, acing,lowering keep levels ... are all legal ingame actions and NOT against the CoC or SoTG

 

[Bracken]

Now tell me why you find it so objectionable again? A guild decides it doesn't like something and it makes that statement. Do you support ACing Bracken? Do you Muly? If you don't then surely you have to agree that in fact what they have done is quite responsible. All I see you doing is spitting out your dummies.

You know my views on AC raids - and you also know that I reckon this is the worst possible way to go about countering it (stop them enjoying it? please, that's weak). As for the rest of your post, it doesn't wash - this idea that one group AC'ing a relic was the thing that swung you to leaving? Rubbish - if you were going to stay you would have. Why would a relic being taken in the slightest bit bother you? Fg'ers aren't bothered about relics right? And it surely wasn't out of some concern for the spirit of the game. I keep seeing these posts that make all these fine high-moral-ground statements but they have the heavy stench of bullshit about them. I have far more respect for the "we did it because we could" line.

As for dummies being spat out now THAT's f*cking ironic - the fg luvvers are the worst in the game for that. If you've all f*cked off to Avalon then great I say. Next you can f*ck off from the Excal/Pryd boards too.

 

[Sharkith]

Much like nobody can tell you stop AC raiding, they can only ask - the same can be said for TT keeping a relic keep at the lowest possible level. Once it is reclaimed and the ACers reclaim it again (perhaps to make a point?) what is to stop another Alb guild making their own stand? TT are not alone on this and your definition of 'real' Alb guilds is going to be quite limited, as you have no idea who you can and can't trust.

Do not make assumptions, but instead ask questions.

Rawr has hit it spot on - you as a realm can reject AC'ers by doing just what TT has done. As a realm you can lead the server. Listen to these guys Bracken and Muly and others. Listen very carefully - finally someone has shown you that something can be done to stop the destruction of the community by the minority - all they have done is demonstrate how you can do it. Now sit back and think hard - are TT so bad anymore?

 

[Sharkith]

You know my views on AC raids - and you also know that I reckon this is the worst possible way to go about countering it. As for the rest of your post, it doesn't wash - this idea that one group AC'ing a relic was the thing that swung you to leaving? Please - if you were going to stay you would have. Why would a relic being taken in the slightest bit bother you? Fg'ers aren't bothered about relics right? And it surely wasn't out of some concern for the spirit of the game. I keep seeing these posts that make all these fine high-moral-ground statements but they have the heavy stench of bullshit about them. I have far more respect for the "we did it because we could" line.

As for dummies being spat out now THAT's f*cking ironic - the fg luvvers are the worst in the world for that.

Actually Bracken I don't know your position on this because all I read is your opinion. I haven't seen an argument come out of you yet that even looks defensable on what the community should do when it objects so strongly to this kind of thing. I haven't seen your suggestion.

I have to confess to loving the irony behind your posts and I put the dummy example into mine knowing you would spot it and yet spit your own out yet again. A double irony perhaps?

Now that all the emotional bit has been set aside stop and think. It was not a relic being taken that caused us to go because this was not a relic attack as we see it. Understand me yet? What the raid 'meant' was basically that a small group of griefers would provoke people once more to have a laugh at all of our expense. That we would have to continue to play having this sort of shit thrown at us on a regular basis. We just decided we had enough. Is that clear enough for you?

OK now I am waiting for your position on ACing and what the community might do about something that is so divisive?

 

[Andrilyn]

Yeah! it's only people who run FG v FG that insult people... well done, you win a cookie.

I'm not saying all people with the "FG" attitude insult people but I for one only seen insults from people from the "FG community" never from people that do the "oh so horrid" 5am relic raids.
I think the phrases "Stop adding you fucking *****" (probably going to be filtered but you get the point) will ring a bell.

In the years I've played DAoC I've played in all types of groups mainly because I like every aspect of this game, Hardcore 8v8 groups, casual groups and groups that play for fun and mostly are at siege area's because they enjoy that part of the game and I can tell you there's no groups other than the "FG" people that has any problem with other people's playing style.
Some of them try and force their own rules upon other people by insults and/or sarcastic remarks against a player that does not want to play according to their FG rules and imo these are the people that have driven away more people than any 5am relic raid crew could ever have done.

Also if you look closely you will see it's not the FG community that lost the most people it's the casuals or "randoms" or what name people like to refer to and by "denying" their right to play how they like this so called "FG" community shot themseleves in the foot and they are the ones calling doomsday upon the server and I believe a "You reap what you sow" is in order.

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

You know my views on AC raids - and you also know that I reckon this is the worst possible way to go about countering it (stop them enjoying it? please, that's weak). As for the rest of your post, it doesn't wash - this idea that one group AC'ing a relic was the thing that swung you to leaving? Rubbish - if you were going to stay you would have. Why would a relic being taken in the slightest bit bother you? Fg'ers aren't bothered about relics right? And it surely wasn't out of some concern for the spirit of the game. I keep seeing these posts that make all these fine high-moral-ground statements but they have the heavy stench of bullshit about them. I have far more respect for the "we did it because we could" line.

As for dummies being spat out now THAT's f*cking ironic - the fg luvvers are the worst in the game for that. If you've all f*cked off to Avalon then great I say. Next you can f*ck off from the Excal/Pryd boards too.

Let me draw you a scenario.

ACing becomes more and more common compared to actual primetime raids. Relics brings a huge imbalance in a RvR frontier/scene where casters DPS is through the roof already.

Albion got the highest population and the best zerg / keep battle classes.

The over all population is low and declining.

Now say albs AC all the 4 relics, less and less people from hib and mid will log on and some will go to Avalon, since they are sheeps or just b/c thet feel like something new.

I think even you realize what this in an extreme form could result in only bad things. Less enemies for the FG ppl to fight, less ppl for the now vastly overpopulated albion to fight, more ppl will quit which will result in even more people quiting/moving, a.k.a. the sheep effect.

Now, dear brackus, you have a server that doesn't function at all, compared to a server that doesn't function very well.

Is this a clear exponation or if you want an elaboration to some of the previous posters thoughts?

 

[brad]

So taking action against the people who's acting in a way most have condemned by now makes you a traitor?

I find it brave.

Those who took the relics at night acted without concern for anyone else and now TT are doing this without concern for those who took the relics at night, just that now albs get upset cause it affects them, and not their "enemies".

hehe yeh exactly right m8. The people that ac the relics are the first people to reply QQ more to the other realms, but when a guild decides to lower the keep level as they feel they are making a positive stance to the server then all the ac raiders are the first to complain.

The server is supposed to be a community, the population is dying out slowly anyways so why ac relics as it just makes people think whats the point in trying.
Some people will attempt to get them back, and thats what the defenders want as it's just a rp farming session, but the other 50% of the realm thinks stuff this im not gonna go try take a keep when we far outnumbered as got litreally 0% chance of getting relics back with a dominting realm such as alb.

By ac'ing relics you just kill of the rvr population slowly. You get the odd attack on relic keep and think o this is good rvr for how many hours it is, but it doesn;'t benfit the server when it comes to everyother day when the population is slowly leaving or moving to different servers does it?

Anyways good on TT i agree with what you doing.

 

[Bracken]

OK now I am waiting for your position on ACing and what the community might do about something that is so divisive?

Not defend it, not allow them on bg raids, boycott their CMs, stuff like that - alot of those sorts of things could have been done. Would they succeed? I dunno, but it would not have been half as divisive and inflammatory as this.

Got a meeting now at work for the afternoon so gonna have to leave this for now. Still, has kept me entertained for a good while

 

[Sharkith]

Not defend it, not allow them on bg raids, boycott their CMs, stuff like that - alot of those sorts of things could have been done. Would they succeed? I dunno, but it would not have been half as divisive and inflammatory as this.

Got a meeting now at work for the afternoon so gonna have to leave this for now. Still, has kept me entertained for a good while

At last a sensible post and one less charged with emotion. I think poor old Muly is about to throw a coronary - I mean he is off frothing about civil war. - rofl

Anyway mate - isn't TT doing precisely what you said - they are saying we won't defend it and even better they are saying - hey look we can even make it easy to take back.... Why don't the rest of you rally behind them now mate and chill out a sec? There is a way to get some good out of this - try taking that opportunity for once. Just be brave. Personally I think attacking people, boycotting them and blocking them is much more negative and much harder to do. This way you get a cookie from everyone else and you could even go down and watch the relic being removed.

XD

Muly - have you taken your medication yet

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

Also if you look closely you will see it's not the FG community that lost the most people it's the casuals or "randoms" or what name people like to refer to and by "denying" their right to play how they like this so called "FG" community shot themseleves in the foot and they are the ones calling doomsday upon the server and I believe a "You reap what you sow" is in order.

I see it the other way around. 90% of the old, mighty and RvRing guilds have left for other games, whats left are adding, zerging, greifing sub paying nice irl guys.

When you add, zerg, AC on someone your actively doing something, what you do is concrete, it has a direct effect on the oppostion. Hence it is not logical to believe abit/alot of whine and bad words have driven anyone from the game. It is you who shotgunned yourself in the head by not showing any kind of consideration or respect for the other side; hence they moved and left you with just that, the adders ACers griefers, and in the end likes that a griefer


Thats what you say but the other way around. I think the answer is somewhere in the middle.

P.S devils advocating abit here, for the ones who don't spot it.

 

[Muylaetrix]

Now tell me why you find it so objectionable again? A guild decides it doesn't like something and it makes that statement. Do you support ACing Bracken? Do you Muly? If you don't then surely you have to agree that in fact what they have done is quite responsible. All I see you doing is spitting out your dummies.

I've been on 2 RR that have been 'called' AC raids. both raids took the relic around 500 CET after more than 10 hours of playing/sieging.

I refuse to name them AC raids.

In the whole, how many AC raids have there been ? 2 real ones ?

i condone TRUE AC raids. The ones that involve people going to bed and getting up at an ungodly hour in agreement with other players with the intention to take relics at the moment there are no deffenders. THAT is lame

i do NOT condone extended raids that just kept the offense going longer than the enemy kept the defense going. THAT is perfectly acceptable for me.

People who are having fun and who don't have to get up early next morning (or are willing to run around like a zombie for a day) will NOT stop just because some other people log out. expecting them to stop is SELFISH.

the game DOES NOT STOP when you are not online. I don't expect it to stop when i am not online.

what TT does is shear betrayal.

Victors get medals, traitors get shot.

 

[MaCaBr3]

Jumps in thread:

Someone host or describe the screenshot, don't care about everything else.

 

[traktorlove]

I've been on 2 RR that have been 'called' AC raids. both raids took the relic around 500 CET after more than 10 hours of playing/sieging.

I refuse to name them AC raids.

In the whole, how many AC raids have there been ? 2 real ones ?

i condone TRUE AC raids. The ones that involve people going to bed and getting up at an ungodly hour in agreement with other players with the intention to take relics at the moment there are no deffenders. THAT is lame

i do NOT condone extended raids that just kept the offense going longer than the enemy kept the defense going. THAT is perfectly acceptable for me.

People who are having fun and who don't have to get up early next morning (or are willing to run around like a zombie for a day) will NOT stop just because some other people log out. expecting them to stop is SELFISH.

the game DOES NOT STOP when you are not online. I don't expect it to stop when i am not online.

what TT does is shear betrayal.

Victors get medals, traitors get shot.

stop crying your heart out beeeptard

 

[Tip]

Taking a 3rd perspective on lowering Ren level........

AGREE -- The point of view with trying to keep the cluster alive, group RVR will favour this as for the balanced fights etc, Think they have done the majority of the realm a favour.

DISAGREE - Solo RVR now these would prefer relics, Think they have betrayed a majority of the realm.

Stale-mate -- there are pro's and con's for all players on the realm of Ablion, therefore the only conclusion is before any decision is made that it should at least be discussed with those concerned.

As for the terminology alarm clock raids -- english server granted but with many players in different time zones, one of my friends is living in Australia, still plays the english server because hes english but hes 10 hours in front of GMT.
He would disagree with been branded a lamer because his idea of prime time gaming isnt GMT.


my opinion now on what should be fair ...

If there was to be any repeat action of lowering Relic keeps without at least a discussion/vote with the remaining Albion player database, then goa should intervene and remove there control over a relic keep, as a civil war can only destabilize Albions defence.

 

[Sharkith]

I've been on 2 RR that have been 'called' AC raids. both raids took the relic around 500 CET after more than 10 hours of playing/sieging.

I refuse to name them AC raids.

In the whole, how many AC raids have there been ? 2 real ones ?

i condone TRUE AC raids. The ones that involve people going to bed and getting up at an ungodly hour in agreement with other players with the intention to take relics at the moment there are no deffenders. THAT is lame

i do NOT condone extended raids that just kept the offense going longer than the enemy kept the defense going. THAT is perfectly acceptable for me.

People who are having fun and who don't have to get up early next morning (or are willing to run around like a zombie for a day) will NOT stop just because some other people log out. expecting them to stop is SELFISH.

the game DOES NOT STOP when you are not online. I don't expect it to stop when i am not online.

what TT does is shear betrayal.

Victors get medals, traitors get shot.

The irony is I agree with your definitions of an AC raid - I do think the raid you were on that overran was fair enough and if you remember I did say as much (at least I hope I did). If I didn't I am sorry.

However this was an AC raid. Now you have said you disagree with these raids - now Muly and this is the killer question. What do you suggest your realm does about it? Do you believe as a realm you can take a stand against ACraids of the bad kind?

Are TT not helping you guys do that then? If not what do you suggest is an alternative way to oppose such behaviour?

Victors get medals, traitors get shot.

you can get some cool drugs for this you know!

As for the terminology alarm clock raids -- english server granted but with many players in different time zones, one of my friends is living in Australia, still plays the english server because hes english but hes 10 hours in front of GMT.
He would disagree with been branded a lamer because his idea of prime time gaming isnt GMT.

I agree Tip but a group can hardly change its point of reference for one bloke in Australia. If we had a bigger population this problem would most likely dissappear - its a product of low population. It is why it has to be sorted out. On the vote thing - you have a point but sometimes leading is painful and at least they are posing the right question to you all. My advice would be to look for the good in this and a constructive way forward.

 

[Muylaetrix]

I'm not saying all people with the "FG" attitude insult people but I for one only seen insults from people from the "FG community" never from people that do the "oh so horrid" 5am relic raids.
I think the phrases "Stop adding you fucking *****" (probably going to be filtered but you get the point) will ring a bell.

In the years I've played DAoC I've played in all types of groups mainly because I like every aspect of this game, Hardcore 8v8 groups, casual groups and groups that play for fun and mostly are at siege area's because they enjoy that part of the game and I can tell you there's no groups other than the "FG" people that has any problem with other people's playing style.
Some of them try and force their own rules upon other people by insults and/or sarcastic remarks against a player that does not want to play according to their FG rules and imo these are the people that have driven away more people than any 5am relic raid crew could ever have done.

Also if you look closely you will see it's not the FG community that lost the most people it's the casuals or "randoms" or what name people like to refer to and by "denying" their right to play how they like this so called "FG" community shot themseleves in the foot and they are the ones calling doomsday upon the server and I believe a "You reap what you sow" is in order.

:worthy:

repped.

FG community is imho a vocal (badmouthing) minority that have driven more players away than the other way round.

 

[Kinetix]

Well tbh TT can take the keep to lvl2 sure... but what will happen in the future?
Well some albs might agree with TT and have no problem with that, on the other hand TT gets horrible Rep for doing that and even if albs loose relic due to this the future presents itself with another AC RR and in that time they wont put on a Keep controlled by TT.


So concluding: TT gets bad rep for enforcing this on other ppl and AC RR will remain

So i must ask: Was it worth it TT members?

 

[Kinetix]

:worthy:

repped.

FG community is imho a vocal (badmouthing) minority that have driven more players away than the other way round.

yep

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

Alot of nonsense and yapping

Tbh get your meds mate. It is not good for the server at current time to AC raid, thats it.

When the server had 2.3k population at prime and 600 at nights then a AC raid might be the only sane way to get a relic, nowadays it's not.


P.S You got one point though and that is that noone can expect you to stop a siege you started 6 hours earlier just b/c its getting late, but that is not the case here, and have not been the case in other recent AC's.

 

[Icebreaker]

I've been on 2 RR that have been 'called' AC raids. both raids took the relic around 500 CET after more than 10 hours of playing/sieging.

I refuse to name them AC raids.

In the whole, how many AC raids have there been ? 2 real ones ?

i condone TRUE AC raids. The ones that involve people going to bed and getting up at an ungodly hour in agreement with other players with the intention to take relics at the moment there are no deffenders. THAT is lame

i do NOT condone extended raids that just kept the offense going longer than the enemy kept the defense going. THAT is perfectly acceptable for me.

People who are having fun and who don't have to get up early next morning (or are willing to run around like a zombie for a day) will NOT stop just because some other people log out. expecting them to stop is SELFISH.

the game DOES NOT STOP when you are not online. I don't expect it to stop when i am not online.

what TT does is shear betrayal.

Victors get medals, traitors get shot.

The only selfish People are the early morning Raiders my friend.Just thinking of THEIR fun.If that isnt selfish then i don't know!

 

[noaim]

Well tbh TT can take the keep to lvl2 sure... but what will happen in the future?
Well some albs might agree with TT and have no problem with that, on the other hand TT gets horrible Rep for doing that and even if albs loose relic due to this the future presents itself with another AC RR and in that time they wont put on a Keep controlled by TT.


So concluding: TT gets bad rep for enforcing this on other ppl and AC RR will remain

So i must ask: Was it worth it TT members?

I am sure they care about what the people disagreeing with it thinks, thats why they did it.

 

[Kinetix]

The only selfish People are the early morning Raiders my friend.Just thinking of THEIR fun.If that isnt selfish then i don't know!

They arnt early morning raiders <slaps> they are late night players, or even other time code players or... bah nvm no point explaining u

 

[Kinetix]

I am sure they care about what the people disagreeing with it thinks, thats why they did it.

I never said they cared, re-read my post. I asked if it was worth to do that and get bad rep.
"Enforcing a person´s or group´s way of thinking on to other ppl never had good results in Mans history..."

 

[Phake]

TBH some of the ppl here are totally talking shit...

Bracken as usual .. but everyone knows he is full of shit by now ..

and toMuy .. lol lol lol ... what a little mfer you are. I mean after all the greif u have caused the FG crowd by adding etc over the years .. wtf are you whining about when for once someone does something to fuck up yer playstyle haha ..

all i can say .. everyone pays their subs .. so fuck off!