Why Assassins Need Improvement...

[Kanim]

Have you ever played a vamp before? I played one to RR4 and let me tell you (again) they might be OPed in 1 vs. 1 BUT they do not worth shit in groups. given the equal RR a friar can go toe-to-toe with a vampiir so Friars don't need any boosting? Your logic is flawed. Any hib group will take a BM, Champ, Hero over a vampiir anyday.

A Vampiir is only as strong as its current power %. A vampiir that starts a fight with no power will have a hard time against other tanks. Try to attack a Shield specced hero or a friar with no power and see how well you do as a vampiir.

depends on the spec and playstyle, true a sm spec vamp spamming anytime + claw is not that effective in a fg, but one utilising all the vamps tools is very effective.

And really you can't deny vamp is not one of the most op classes ingame atm.

 

[Pera]

depends on the spec and playstyle, true a sm spec vamp spamming anytime + claw is not that effective in a fg, but one utilising all the vamps tools is very effective.

And really you can't deny vamp is not one of the most op classes ingame atm.

Sure they are OPed. But only in 1 vs. 1 not in groups. They are not any more powerful than BMs in groups. Although one thing that people tend to not see is that a fully powered up VE vampiir can outdamage a BM. Of course, trying to tell people this and get groups was another story.

Anyways, let's stay on topic with assassins .

 

[Puppet]

And really you can't deny vamp is not one of the most op classes ingame atm.

Ive said it before, Charge is what it makes Vampiir overpowered.

On a TOA-server any tank can be a good match against a Vampiir, problem is they just play like shite. Considering I can beat quite a few Vampiirs on my unbuffed paladin on Classic AND I played a Vampiir for quite abit in solo-RvR, I think I got a pretty good idea about it

 

[Outlander]

givf my babeh some cast-speed debuff poisons and I would be as happy as larry

Often I use weapon speed debuff poisons on 2h users and it can actually be a great help. If debuffed caster meant 2 sec casting then I would be happy

 

[Aoln]

I'd say stealthers do need a boost, simply because over the years loads of stuff has been boosted, especially in defence, but nothing has been done to stealther offence to counter this.

Back in the day an assassin or archer would be able to stealth into the middle of group of visibles, pick a caster and have a good go at taking him out with PA/critshot and then probably die.

Now days there's brittle guards, bodyguard, blockrate, divine intervention, moc, mad cast speeds + silly damage, more health, more af, more insta interupts, stupid stuff like bds/warlocks/bainshees, charge, and loads of other shit.

I remember back in the day when there was single routes from place to place so you were garaunteed fights, now you can go fucking ages without seeing shit or go prime spot and get zerged to hell.

Have to say i do miss the days when if i leeched on 2 evenly matched groups i'd easily be able to take out 2-3 minimum by myself while their busy but now days if its a decent group you'll be lucky to take one without dying

 

[Outlander]

I'd say stealthers do need a boost, simply because over the years loads of stuff has been boosted, especially in defence, but nothing has been done to stealther offence to counter this.

Back in the day an assassin or archer would be able to stealth into the middle of group of visibles, pick a caster and have a good go at taking him out with PA/critshot and then probably die.

Now days there's brittle guards, bodyguard, blockrate, divine intervention, moc, mad cast speeds + silly damage, more health, more af, more insta interupts, stupid stuff like bds/warlocks/bainshees, charge, and loads of other shit.

I remember back in the day when there was single routes from place to place so you were garaunteed fights, now you can go fucking ages without seeing shit or go prime spot and get zerged to hell.

Have to say i do miss the days when if i leeched on 2 evenly matched groups i'd easily be able to take out 2-3 minimum by myself while their busy but now days if its a decent group you'll be lucky to take one without dying

actually I agree.

makes sense!

 

[Pera]

I'd say stealthers do need a boost, simply because over the years loads of stuff has been boosted, especially in defence, but nothing has been done to stealther offence to counter this.

Back in the day an assassin or archer would be able to stealth into the middle of group of visibles, pick a caster and have a good go at taking him out with PA/critshot and then probably die.

Now days there's brittle guards, bodyguard, blockrate, divine intervention, moc, mad cast speeds + silly damage, more health, more af, more insta interupts, stupid stuff like bds/warlocks/bainshees, charge, and loads of other shit.

I remember back in the day when there was single routes from place to place so you were garaunteed fights, now you can go fucking ages without seeing shit or go prime spot and get zerged to hell.

Have to say i do miss the days when if i leeched on 2 evenly matched groups i'd easily be able to take out 2-3 minimum by myself while their busy but now days if its a decent group you'll be lucky to take one without dying

I do agree with this also. I think NF is just way too Big for the current population of the servers and thats whh people just zerg couple places and don't pay attention to others.

 

[Shike]

Although I totally disagree with your first two pharagraphs, I do agree fully with the last one. The definition of an assassin is one who is able to attack from the shadows right? then why in the world Mythic allows Stealthers to group at the first place?

Its all nice and dandy to be able to walk around solo and pick your own battles, BUT it is not so nice when there is no battles to pick from you. You can't attack casters with decent MLs and MoC, you can't go to popular places to hunt since stealth zergs are there. I waited on the Mid bridge (not the so popular one Bryna I think) and for 45 mins I did not see single soul that came by it. At the same time though mids were camping the bridge by drop off with 20+ numbers.

I play the same game as a group friendly toon. I pay the same money, and I put as much if not more effort to get the best template. I spend the time to get 50 and ToAed out, which is by the way far more than a toon with group friendly abilities would spend. I do everything a group friendly toon does and more just to be penalized at the end game? I do those things so that given the equal time played a group friendly pull off 60K a night where I have to be satisfied with 15K?

Before you critize stealthers in any way (especially if you never played one) ask yourself these questions and try to see the things from a stealthers perspective.

I didnt roll a nightshade to get a group though I _knew_ it is a solotoon. Thats why I rolled it when I did, since I have kids and afk alot at times etc. A solotoon is uber for me then.

And regarding fights, I went to farm inside beno, (its really fun too actually, especially without vanish, PA+CD+SS and a caster without brittles is usually dead, then deal with the adding armsman and go hide for abit, rinse and repeat), benobridges is roamed by people, the whole agramonpassage from beno2 is crowded with people aswell and lots of people go back and forth there from all realms, brynja in water between docks and bledmeer, on land if you look for ppl heading to docks, passages where people run when they wanna get to defending keeps/towers is also a nice place to roam, own bridges when you see deathspams (I always hunt down dockcampers myself), etc etc etc.. there are lots of places to hunt on if it just is fights you are looking for. Funniest spot is inside enemykeeps though imo

I can agree on one thing and that is, defenses has increased abit over the years for sure, I hate hate hate brittles and moc3 lifetappers but it aint as if I HAVE to jump them, I just go around them and hope to god they aint around to add on my next fight since every single caster ive seen so far add on everything in sight, they go RPfrenzy and just want every little RP they can get by adding, those are scum and should just roll a warlock and do it properly instead.

 

[Vell]

I think that assassins do need improvement, and I don't have any stats to back my arguement up. Why do I say this then? Because people (including myself) just aren't worried about being popped on my a stealther any moe. I can run around solo all over the frontier and not worry about it.

 

[Phantomby]

I'd say stealthers do need a boost, simply because over the years loads of stuff has been boosted, especially in defence, but nothing has been done to stealther offence to counter this.

Back in the day an assassin or archer would be able to stealth into the middle of group of visibles, pick a caster and have a good go at taking him out with PA/critshot and then probably die.

Now days there's brittle guards, bodyguard, blockrate, divine intervention, moc, mad cast speeds + silly damage, more health, more af, more insta interupts, stupid stuff like bds/warlocks/bainshees, charge, and loads of other shit.

I remember back in the day when there was single routes from place to place so you were garaunteed fights, now you can go fucking ages without seeing shit or go prime spot and get zerged to hell.

Have to say i do miss the days when if i leeched on 2 evenly matched groups i'd easily be able to take out 2-3 minimum by myself while their busy but now days if its a decent group you'll be lucky to take one without dying

totally spot on...stopped playing my 50 ranger and my 50 ns because of the length of time between fights was simply boring, roaming for odd stragglers and xp'rs uke:

 

[Raven]

depends on the spec and playstyle, true a sm spec vamp spamming anytime + claw is not that effective in a fg, but one utilising all the vamps tools is very effective.

And really you can't deny vamp is not one of the most op classes ingame atm.

agree, i wouldnt want to fight them on my hero...but...they are deffo killable, more killable than a sorc/cabbie/SM/whorelock <insert caster here>

 

[Dukat]

Allow CS styles and critshots to bypass brittle guards and things start looking a little better, even then you still have DI/PD and the toa cast times to compete with, so its not like it would overpower stealthers, it would allow us to do our jobs though.

At the moment archers are really not(imo) fit to be the caster-busting machines we used to be, I can only imagine the same would be true for an assassin.

 

[chretien]

Half the classes are below average!
This means that 22 classes need boosting and 22 need nerfing.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

gosh... bainshees on #1 and warlocks on #15
can we now PLEASE stop the QQ@midgard bandwagon?

 

[Awarkle]

Stealthers in general do not fit into the group setup.

Why pick an assasin when you can pick a tank that wont eat all the mana from the healers ?

a stealthers uniquness comes from being stealthed. and as it stands you cant move at maximum speed while stealthed so therefore your group moves as fast as its slowest member which in the case of rvr isnt wise because the enemy come down on you while your waiting for your assisin/ranger friend to catch up and BOOM your all dead while mr stealther is still trying to get a positional off on a support char.

my vamps VE spec and ill tell you this its very very powerful when grouped with other stealthers (wish powerpool would go up forever killing torcs).

Personally i see stealthers as it stands as quite powerful most fully buffed toa stealthers can kill the majority of other classes quite easily 1 vs 1.

making a stealther groupable isnt going to work unless you provide them with somthing that makes grouping them feasable which wont work because all it would do is make stealther groups more powerfull.

Personally my valkyrie needs more fixing to work in a group than any stealther currently does.

 

[Chronictank]

Then please remove our ml10 spy ability and give us something actually worth going to ml10 for.

its only there for novelty
if it was suppose to be useful why did they add the others are stealthed at a random level?
wouldnt it have been more sensible to base it on the stealthers lvl in stealth?

 

[Void959]

I don't think weekly RPs is a good indicator to use at all, however I do agree that assassins - and by that I mean only NS/SB/infil - defo need some help when it comes to killing casters in particular. There have been so many changes made that (arguably) balance out overall but seem to leave those three classes at the bottom of the heap, to the point where their only game is other stealthers and the odd low-RR/untemplated tank.

 

[Behmoth]

i agree the game needs balancing but the minute stealthers get boosted all whine they are soo overpowered they get nerfed 2 patches later or casters get a boost or tanks get a boost...now here is my whine when the hell has a warden gotten a boost? warden has only resists and ml abilities without these 2 things we are usless and wouldn't get in a grp hit like pussies heal like gimps gif sum lub plz (will still play him though)

 

[Dracus]

The problem with assasin vs. caster is that some casters who havent ML'd/Toa'd much or are low RR and not used to assasins attacking will die 99/100 times. Thats my experience playing both casters and assasins(NS, SB and Inf). LT moccers will always be near impossible and high RR/ML, toa'd casters aswell.

They should sort some form of fix brittle Vs CS styles, coz thats just retarded removing the 1 signature spec assasins have when fighting toa'd casters.

/Dracus

 

[haoth]

The problem with assasin vs. caster is that some casters who havent ML'd/Toa'd much or are low RR and not used to assasins attacking will die 99/100 times. Thats my experience playing both casters and assasins(NS, SB and Inf). LT moccers will always be near impossible and high RR/ML, toa'd casters aswell.

They should sort some form of fix brittle Vs CS styles, coz thats just retarded removing the 1 signature spec assasins have when fighting toa'd casters.

/Dracus

caster should not go ungrped in the frontiers, they have so insane dps compared to all melle and they can use that dps at range, and since toa 4xbrittleguards+self bt > melle i say limit amount of bg to 1 at a time

 

[Vell]

If a caster is solo in the frontier, an assassin should be able to kill him. No question asked. The problem for assassins is that they can't due to all the silly defensive addons the ycan get. Solo caster should = death. The problem is it doesn't.

 

[Darzil]

If a caster is solo in the frontier, an assassin should be able to kill him. No question asked. The problem for assassins is that they can't due to all the silly defensive addons the ycan get. Solo caster should = death. The problem is it doesn't.

Yes, should be able to. But not will 100%. Caster might get a chance to quickcast root and run, maybe. I'd like to see anti dex poisons, to remove the chance of them being able to nuke the stealther into the ground, rather than higher PA damage, so they just die 100% with no alternatives.

In an ideal world, they should also be able to if the caster is grouped.

Darzil

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Life would be much better without brittles. Self-BT, pets, QC CC is more than enough. While a 100% deathrate for casters soloing in the frontiers is a bit much to ask for, Casters in general currently do not suffer (usable!) penalties for the bonusses they get.

They need a usable weakness for the fact that they're walking cannons. All the survivability bonusses they have received over the last years have turned from glass cannons into steel ones.

A fight between a solo caster and a stealther should not be fair. The advantage should lay squarely in the court of the stealther. Why? Because casters are group characters and stealthers are not. Soloing is the stealther's natural habitat and the caster should be like a fish on dry land there.

 

[Chronictank]

Life would be much better without brittles. Self-BT, pets, QC CC is more than enough. While a 100% deathrate for casters soloing in the frontiers is a bit much to ask for, Casters in general currently do not suffer (usable!) penalties for the bonusses they get.

They need a usable weakness for the fact that they're walking cannons. All the survivability bonusses they have received over the last years have turned from glass cannons into steel ones.

A fight between a solo caster and a stealther should not be fair. The advantage should lay squarely in the court of the stealther. Why? Because casters are group characters and stealthers are not. Soloing is the stealther's natural habitat and the caster should be like a fish on dry land there.

dot mine, bb brittles
then its a interuptable caster just as any other caster


if your ranged, volley/rapid fire same again no more brittles

MOC is overpowered and should be made back to the original 15 point, 100% dmg every 15 mins rather than every 5 mins

And maybe put a ability in the Stealther Crit line to bypass brittles (on pa for example)

 

[haoth]

ops

 

[Pera]

Life would be much better without brittles. Self-BT, pets, QC CC is more than enough. While a 100% deathrate for casters soloing in the frontiers is a bit much to ask for, Casters in general currently do not suffer (usable!) penalties for the bonusses they get.

They need a usable weakness for the fact that they're walking cannons. All the survivability bonusses they have received over the last years have turned from glass cannons into steel ones.

A fight between a solo caster and a stealther should not be fair. The advantage should lay squarely in the court of the stealther. Why? Because casters are group characters and stealthers are not. Soloing is the stealther's natural habitat and the caster should be like a fish on dry land there.

The way it should be is IF a stealther gets PA chain off on a caster that should mean 100% of the time the caster will die. IF the stealther gets the PA chain off on a tank I honestly believe it should be 50/50% to kill the tank. Also it is just stupidly retarded that the highest grwoth rate style in the game for all melee only hits tanks for 300-400 which is what a 2hander will hit my assassin for with a regular 2H style.

Also I think one of the main problem with the current state of the game is, casters are way better soloers than assassins which is so wrong in so many points. A caster should fear to step into the frontiers solo and not even dare going to bridges where assassins are. Given the current state an ML10 caster with MoC can kill 3-4 assassins easily.

Mythic needs to take away this luxury of being both amazing soloers and group friendly from casters and should only limit it to group friendly part.

I think once we get casters stop soloing and lean em towards more grouping most of the issues concerning "Realm Points" would be solved. Of course balance issue between assassins is totally different story.

 

[Pera]

I don't think weekly RPs is a good indicator to use at all, however I do agree that assassins - and by that I mean only NS/SB/infil - defo need some help when it comes to killing casters in particular. There have been so many changes made that (arguably) balance out overall but seem to leave those three classes at the bottom of the heap, to the point where their only game is other stealthers and the odd low-RR/untemplated tank.

Why isn't weekly RPs a good indicator? Do me a favor and go check in all realms the top 25 realm points earned for the week. I guarantee you will not see1 stealther.

 

[Keelus]

I may be mistaken but arent they remaking brittleguard so the effects still transfer to caster? atleast thats a step towards the right path, on side note with the rp change those ppl who use DI bots will risk that their bots gets higher rr than them :touch:

 

[Pera]

I may be mistaken but arent they remaking brittleguard so the effects still transfer to caster? atleast thats a step towards the right path, on side note with the rp change those ppl who use DI bots will risk that their bots gets higher rr than them :touch:

Uh that is right, but the damage is still negated by brittles.

I don't think ppl care how much RPs they get as long as they "win" (i.e. Stealth Zergs.)

 

[Sorao]

I agree with waht one of the other guys said

If u are a walking cannon u give up Hp

its the way it used to be u could dish out so much dammage as a fire wizzy for instance but u get into melee range u die simple as that

as a stelather u reliy on killg cloth wears thats there job and are made to solo

Caster gets sick dammage but very vunarable to melee ie less HP

Tank more hp ok dammage no ranged bar Xbow group protect casters thats there job

Suport as said before they suport heal ect if they egt in melee they stould be ok with help but 1v1 50/50

but the way the game is atm its a case of Stealther pff i be fine

tank pfff he be dead before he gets to be

Suport dead before they get the chance toheal

caster Hope i get first cast in ur me and group are dead

they need to somhow take game back to how it used to be for rvr

Tank v tank 50/50
tank v suport 70/30
tank v assassin 60/40 depending who jumps who

Caster v tank not 3 shot him but take him to low hp before melee range say 40% or so then caster skil comes into play
cater v caster who ever gets in there first
casterv suport tbh they sould win this hands down
caster vs assassin if assains jumps caster caster sould drop before he knows what is going on if i was stadning around a street corder in the dark and u walked around and i jumped out and punched u in the face u would hit the ground before u know waht had happend that is the way it sould be not aww ok moc ltltltltltltltltltltltltltltlt dead assasin iam on 100% hp and rdy for next one

assassin this is all basced on assassin geting first attak
Assassin vs tank first sould be 50/50 as tank be on around 60% hp or so
assassin vs suport sould be more in favor or assasin
assassin vs caster 90-10 easyly in favor of assassin

and before u start flameing me for spelling and stuff i have real troubles with it so plz dont...

also i play therg cabbie sorc wizzy scout and infil so i have some idea what its like as all the classes i have labled bar the Tank

and as caster in this day of battle its just unreal

jsut me 2c and i think the way rogues work in WoW is a very good idea to how it sould work vs casters in daoc