Wazz's hurt himself

[TdC]

and a better clip than stupid vevo. Bryan Ferry still cool as fuck though


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfWCzrZVmbg

 

[Scouse]

Ouch m8. Harsh luck.

- Foot injury. Suspected ligament damage, x-rays came back ok, seeing foot specialist tomorrow.

X-rays aren't very good at spotting ligament damage (trust me - I *really* know about this) - if your foot specialist ums-and-ah's - *at all* - ask for an MRI. It's the only thing that can spot ligament damage properly through swollen tissue. And the earlier that it gets caught the better chance you've got of a successful fix (if needed).

If it is ligament damage kiss goodbye to the next 8 months for any sort of exercise you enjoy - even if you feel ok. It just ain't worth it...

 

[Wazzerphuk]

She won't umm and ahh as it's a private specialist who treated my previous foot injury, for which I got MRI scans and it was a much less serious problem.

It's amazing how much more capable and organised private healthcare is to NHS. My dealings with the NHS over the last few days have been.... shit.

 

[sayward]

Ouch! Take Arnica!

 

[Scouse]

Ouch! Take Arnica!

One simple sentence that shows how dangerous homeopathy can be.

Deaths are caused each year because people tell their friends not to bother with chemotherapy because there's a homeopathic remedy that will do the job instead


No offense intended sayward - had to point it out tho.

 

[sayward]

All the top surgeons I've come across suggest it as a serious remedy to use pre and post op and for any type of bruising.I didn't just dream it. And and far as I know it doesn't react with anything. Wouldn't dream of suggesting it instead of any 'regular' treatment.

 

[Scouse]

Wouldn't dream of suggesting it instead of any 'regular' treatment.

I wasn't trying to suggest you would

The chance to illustrate how homeopathy spreads through word-of-mouth, however, was too much to pass up given how I feel about the subject.

I'm an opportunist at heart...

 

[Moriath]

One simple sentence that shows how dangerous homeopathy can be.

Deaths are caused each year because people tell their friends not to bother with chemotherapy because there's a homeopathic remedy that will do the job instead


No offense intended sayward - had to point it out tho.

homeopathy is different from suggesting a natural remedy .. H for ease of typing is diluting the fuck out of something till its not there... there are however natural remedies that can be used that are effective... man aspirin is a natural substance

 

[Aoami]

happy birthday trololo

 

[Moriath]

happy birthday trololo

not his birthday

 

[Aoami]

NO, YOU'RE KIDDING!?

 

[opticle]

She won't umm and ahh as it's a private specialist who treated my previous foot injury, for which I got MRI scans and it was a much less serious problem.

It's amazing how much more capable and organised private healthcare is to NHS. My dealings with the NHS over the last few days have been.... shit.

This shitness in the NHS is down to bureaucracy and terrible organisation plus far too much politics (both internal and external) that really needs restructuring. Not to mention understaffing in the places where it counts (wards, A&E departments) and overstaffing where the problem is (management).

Private healthcare can be equally shit and cause it's own problems - sometimes the NHS definitely wins. You just don't get an appointment "on demand" and have to queue sometimes.
Private healthcare also over-investigates because it means they get to charge more money. It makes people feel better to know they have an answer, but it often doesn't actually change the management.

X-rays look at bones. They're pretty shit for all else, because that's not what they're designed/used for.

An MRI could give you a definite answer about random ligaments but a decent physio (or orthopaedic doctor if required) would probably be able to tell you what was wrong. And the management is more often than not the same or very similar. Most musculoskeletal injuries get better within 4 weeks, if they don't or if there are warning signs then you look further. It's frustrating for you, but not doing that to the 1000s of people injuring their feet every day means people with cancer can get chemotherapy and not die. What would you rather?

And honestly, it's not that amazing a surprise. Private healthcare has more money and deals with far fewer people, both internally and externally, who are often much healthier and so easier to look after because they're not poor. And they make a shitload of money doing unnecessary tests on people indulging and so encouraging their need to be investigated unnecessarily, thus making more money.

 

[DaGaffer]

One simple sentence that shows how dangerous homeopathy can be.

Deaths are caused each year because people tell their friends not to bother with chemotherapy because there's a homeopathic remedy that will do the job instead

No offense intended sayward - had to point it out tho.

Arnica is homeopathic? Are you sure? We use it for the kids' bangs and bumps all the time and it works amazingly well, and trust me, I'm with Dara O'briain on the whole alternative medicine thing.

 

[dysfunction]

I'm an opportunist at heart...

Some would say argumentative instead!

 

[Scouse]

Arnica is homeopathic? Are you sure?

I wasn't sure, but I was 90% - mainly because the couple of heavy homeopaths I know always trumpet arnica at the first sign of a bruise.

Looking at the Wiki page for Arnica you can see this:

Arnica montana has been used medicinally for centuries, however there are no scientific studies that prove the medical effectiveness

...

/shrug

 

[Scouse]

An MRI could give you a definite answer about random ligaments but a decent physio (or orthopaedic doctor if required) would probably be able to tell you what was wrong.

I agree with most of what you said but finding a decent physio or othopaedic doctor who'll get it right is much much harder than an MRI which does it every time...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Teaches you to try and be physically active in our industry

 

[Fweddy]

Longer story to come when I can be arsed.

Basically:
- Eye injury. Bleeding and haemorraging behind the eye, "high risk" of retinal detachment. Facial x-rays came back ok. My eye is very purple. My vision still has problems.
- Foot injury. Suspected ligament damage, x-rays came back ok, seeing foot specialist tomorrow. The inside by the ankle is swollen to buggery with the typical purple tear like bruise near the heel. On crutches.

All from 20 minutes of "pussy sport" football.

In short, I'm retiring.

Did you kick yourself in the face?

 

[Hawkwind]

Get well soon, eye issues can be both painful and annoying. Had many scratched retina injuries playing waterpolo and even a squash ball in the eye. Like you they were worried about detachment. Luckily I was fine and vision returned over a few days.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Saw the foot specialist who was excellent, didn't want me going until after Christmas when I could well need a protective boot. Luckily there was an MRI spot free which they squeezed me into. Results/follow-up on Friday, which is a very quick turnaround.

NHS refused to look at my foot at all beyond x-rays. Even if I could arrange an MRI on the NHS that easily it wouldn't have been until mid-January (!).

 

[Scouse]

Saw the foot specialist who was excellent, didn't want me going until after Christmas when I could well need a protective boot. Luckily there was an MRI spot free which they squeezed me into. Results/follow-up on Friday, which is a very quick turnaround.

NHS refused to look at my foot at all beyond x-rays. Even if I could arrange an MRI on the NHS that easily it wouldn't have been until mid-January (!).

Nice.

X-Rays were a waste of money tbfh - the NHS really needs to look at that sort of shit.

 

[Job]

Even if you get retinal detachment, it's piss easy to reatach, they just zap it with a laser

 

[Trem]

You almighty fuckwit Wazz (probably, didn't read the thread), get well soon 'gina face.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I have two sets of eyedrops. One of them turns my eye into total blurrovision, can't see any numbers or letters from up to 20 feet away.

I can't stress how horrible these drops are.

The steroid drops are fine, no sting, no problems.

The anti-inflammatory ones sting like fuck and cause instant blurring for 5 hours at a time. Nnnnnggg.

 

[opticle]

Nice.

X-Rays were a waste of money tbfh - the NHS really needs to look at that sort of shit.

They tell you that none of the bones are broken - that's important They're also cheap as chips and take seconds. MRIs cost a lot and take up a lot of time - which, thanks to equipment and staff shortages, are a big deal. If they could MRI every injury they would, but instead they have to be economical and exclude the big thing (fracture) first and give it a chance. The others become obvious within a relatively short period of time - though its frustrating as hell as a patient. If you can afford it and really want a definite answer that none of the soft bits are/are not broken then pay for a scan - but it doesn't really change much, it's still rest and analgesia, you just have a more definite answer why. If every twisted ankle and foot got an MRI within the first few weeks, the NHS would be insta-fucked - and the queues would be so long, you'd wait ages anyway.

Hope you're on the mend dude The drops suck for a bit but eyes are important.

 

[Scouse]

exclude the big thing (fracture) first

Incorrect tbfh.

Fractures and broken bones are both easy to spot and no big deal. Ligament injuries take longer to heal, have longer-term effects and are most effectively treated if caught very early on - if you leave them to "give them a chance" you fuck the patient.

MRI's are indeed more expensive. What we need is a well-funded NHS, unfortunately.

 

[rynnor]

They tell you that none of the bones are broken - that's important They're also cheap as chips and take seconds. MRIs cost a lot and take up a lot of time - which, thanks to equipment and staff shortages, are a big deal. If they could MRI every injury they would, but instead they have to be economical and exclude the big thing (fracture) first and give it a chance. The others become obvious within a relatively short period of time - though its frustrating as hell as a patient. If you can afford it and really want a definite answer that none of the soft bits are/are not broken then pay for a scan - but it doesn't really change much, it's still rest and analgesia, you just have a more definite answer why.

NHS rationing basically - amusingly if my dog had the same injury she could get an MRI scan within a day or so.

Everything works so much better when you are a paying customer rather than a poor supplicant to the charitable NHS...

 

[opticle]

Incorrect tbfh.
Fractures and broken bones are both easy to spot and no big deal.

Very wrong. Some are very obvious, but many are not and it's important to pick them up.

Ligament injuries take longer to heal, have longer-term effects and are most effectively treated if caught very early on - if you leave them to "give them a chance" you fuck the patient.

From medical literature on ligament injuries:

In some cases, there will be the need for an MRI to get an image of the ligaments, tendons, and the cartilage of the joint to examine the extent of the injury.

And another:

An Xray will usually be taken to see if there is any damage to the bones of your ankle.
Ligaments do not show on Xrays. Ligament damage can be shown by taking Xrays with your ankle stretched in various directions ("stress views”) or with a magnetic (MRI) scan. However, these special tests are usually not needed at first.

i.e. in SOME cases MRIs are necessary. Often they are not. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience, but that is the case.

MRI's are indeed more expensive. What we need is a well-funded NHS, unfortunately.

True.

 

[sayward]

I've used lots of homeopathic remedies over the years for many things. But for anything serious or terminal it really would be an absolute last resort.

 

[Scouse]

Gonna have to take you to task on this one opticle. Up-front I should say I've had all the ligaments in both my ankes replaced, have done ligament injuries to my hands, boths knees and broken bones in both feet (multiple times) leg, arm, wrist and ankle.

Yeah. I get up to shit

Very wrong. Some are very obvious, but many are not and it's important to pick them up.

Broken bones hurt. You can pick 'em up easy. Fractures? Well, they're easily dealt with - just leave off for a couple of months and you'll be fine (unless you're a twat).

Ligaments, on the other hand, have no nerve endings. The only way you pick them up is when you realise your body is bending or twisting in ways it really bloody well shouldn't be.

Which brings me to the stuff about finding out about bones and recommendations on MRI's and stuff - you posted two things (which are fine) then this:

Ligaments do not show on Xrays. Ligament damage can be shown by taking Xrays with your ankle stretched in various directions ("stress views”) or with a magnetic (MRI) scan. However, these special tests are "usually not needed at first".

Ligament damage can be shown by "stress x-rays" by only the most skilled personnel. You are more often than not farmed out, in order, to: Trainee Physiotherapist > Physiotherapist > Osteologist > Specalist Osteologist.

In my first case I finally got to an osteo who treated football players (after 3 years of arguments with the medical profession) - only to be told "it's the worst case I've ever seen", "how did they miss this" and "never settle for stress x-rays, demand an MRI".

Manipulation of a swollen joint is ridiculous - precicely because it's swollen and inflamed it has less mobility in all directions - and 90% of medical staff will think it's therefore fine and you haven't fucked your ligaments.

I went through the procedure, on the NHS, for both left and right ankles and my left medial collateral ligament. When I got old enough to afford private my problems went away - because I, through experience, knew enough to know to scream "MRI NOW BITCHES" - and had the cash to back me up.

The "usually not needed at first" line is bullshit - because ligament injuries are most effectively treated when caught within the first 72 hours. After that you develop a disability that you learn to live with - and the NHS marks that down as "succesful treatment" - and it's nice and cheap.

i.e. in SOME cases MRIs are necessary. Often they are not. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience, but that is the case.

Now, I'm the first to admit - personal experience is not a good indicator of proper medical practice. And I've had a *number of* bad experiences.

However, having friends with similar experiences and talking to the medical professionals themselves - MRI should be mandatory in these cases - and it's only cost that stops it being so.