Thread to discuss Archery improvements!

[Succi]

Because people are always looking to gain an extra edge on the enemy, that does not mean there was anything wrong with the old 'fad' either.

aye so if all rangers reroll to other classes , cuz theyre all so much better and have the "edge" .... it means rangers are still fine ? oki mate =]

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

The biggest change I want to see is that CritShot should penetrate all BTs and Brittles in the same way PA now does and it should never miss. If you take the time to stand there and line up a shot it should hit the target IMHO.

It would be nice if Scouts got the option to spec DW over Shield TBH - think that'd make a lot of difference in melee.

Anything else is just fluff.

 

[Elrandhir]

The biggest change I want to see is that CritShot should penetrate all BTs and Brittles in the same way PA now does and it should never miss. If you take the time to stand there and line up a shot it should hit the target IMHO.

It would be nice if Scouts got the option to spec DW over Shield TBH - think that'd make a lot of difference in melee.

Anything else is just fluff.

True, critshot as it is atm is more or less pointless!

 

[xxManiacxx]

Critshot will prob be changed to work like PA/BS.
Oh and if souts get dw hunters should get la and we have pretty much the same 2 stealth classes except one has env/critline and the other studded,IP,FZ etc.

 

[Phule_Gubben]

Sorry, you mean

The issue when facing AFK casters are to me plain and simple.

what caster stands around waiting to see whats gonna happen next after his bubble drops and theres a geat big arrow pointing out of his chest pointing towards the culprit

Done it loads of times so I dunno what's so hard about it really. ofc they are engaged in something else so they don't notice when the bubble burst and they start to look like a pincushion.

 

[Phule_Gubben]

Spot on for another ignorant and unresearched post.

You can not critshot a target once it is put into combat mode (by your 1st arrow wich will hit the brittle and not the bubble.) And as much as I like those casters that let me shoot them till they are dead, I don't encounter them often.

not all casters have brittles, and if you think I'm just blabbering you're dead wrong. I've played my hunter for more then 3 years. I can't count the times I've done exactly what I wrote in the other post. Guess you need to learn a little more about archers since you seem to lack experience.

 

[Jeriraa]

not all casters have brittles, and if you think I'm just blabbering you're dead wrong. I've played my hunter for more then 3 years. I can't count the times I've done exactly what I wrote in the other post. Guess you need to learn a little more about archers since you seem to lack experience.

Yeah, only played one since beta.

 

[mithridatis :)]

Give Range Classes Vanish 1 So We Can Escape Fg Zerg!!!

 

[Azathrim]

Give Range Classes Vanish 1 So We Can Escape Fg Zerg!!!

In your case, that FG would probably still be able to see you on /map as a number.

(sorry, couldn't resist it!).

 

[xxManiacxx]

In your case, that FG would probably still be able to see you on /map as a number.

(sorry, couldn't resist it!).

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Azathrim again.

 

[Jox]

...

Rangers who believe they deserve love should hang themselves in the basement.

 

[Matmardigan]

1st one to all the people crying about archers atm and their current playstyle (camping towers and bridges in packs and leeching): The issues people bring up here are the cause to this. A bow spec'd archer has no other way to play this game.

Those who aint asshats have spec'd out of bow and are now playing a different class. The other ones are playing their class the only way it is playable. That is why we are asking for archery improvments.

u know what u talking about. /rep

Rangers who believe they deserve love should hang themselves in the basement.

directly beside u

 

[Elrandhir]

Rangers who believe they deserve love should hang themselves in the basement.

If I was a Mod I would insta delete pointless posts like this, FH would probably become very boring if I was a mod, but is it even possible to make a more useless comment I wonder.

 

[Matmardigan]

If I was a Mod I would insta delete pointless posts like this, FH would probably become very boring if I was a mod, but is it even possible to make a more useless comment I wonder.

dont take Jox's post 2 serious. Jox is something like the good soul of FH.

So ur and my post here are more useless than his.

PS:

especialy his Threads are fun 2 read

 

[Kagato]

I dont know if you have ever played a scout in RvR, but this statement suggests that you have not done so a huge amount.

Actually I do have a level 50 scout, who is 50 Bow spec. I just don't advertise the fact. And when I do play him I quite enjoy the fun of long range damage and killing, however stealth RvR in general is simply not to my tastes hence why I don't play him as much as my visuals.

There is nothing wrong at all with his bow capabilities, melee strength you could argue about most definetly. But bow ability? no. If your not willing to spec in it you cannot argue about how weak it is.

 

[Phule_Gubben]

Yeah, only played one since beta.

And still clueless. Good work.

1st one to all the people crying about archers atm and their current playstyle (camping towers and bridges in packs and leeching): The issues people bring up here are the cause to this. A bow spec'd archer has no other way to play this game.

Those who aint asshats have spec'd out of bow and are now playing a different class. The other ones are playing their class the only way it is playable. That is why we are asking for archery improvments.

I can't understand why so many thinks that archers need to be improved? I've had no problems playing my hunter (50 bow) successfully and pop most other classes, it's a matter of positioning and using the enviroment to it's fullest potential. Sure it's easy to camp towers and bridges but far from the only option even if you specced 45-50 in bow.

 

[Nosufer]

There is nothing wrong at all with his bow capabilities, melee strength you could argue about most definetly. But bow ability? no. If your not willing to spec in it you cannot argue about how weak it is.

50 bow is still weak against almost every class, there are many things that affect the bow line in active rvr. Casters are suppose to be the ones who we kill effectively, but lets just look at all the casters that archers have as targets and how easy they can kill them.

Eldrich - QC NS > Stun nuke + Brittle
Chanter - ML9 pet + Stun nuke + Brittle
Mentalists - One of the easier casters but still have stun and possible pet.
Animist - Relatively easy
Bainshee - 2300 ranged interupt and extremely high dps

Wizard - Bolts+NS in 1.83 + Brittle
Sorc - Bolt range mezz, Amnesia, ML9 Lv50 pet, SOI, MOC+LT + Brittle
Cabbie - NS, ML9 stunning pet, MOC + Debuff LT + britle
Theurg - Un CCable pets which stun/nuke, possibility of pbt + brittles

Runie - NS, nukes + brittle
Warlock - Even after the nerfs this class is still extremely nasty for a bow specced archer. Warlocks are no go if they are paying any attention to the screen.
SM - Even worse than a Warlock Intercepting pet with an intercept rate of roughly 70%, Lifetaps returning 90% of the damage done, Brittles, Mezz, Root.
Bonedancer - lol Insta lifetaps, healing pets, ML9 styling pet, Brittles

So apart from the animist, menta and wizard, until 1.83, most casters are more than equipped to stop the attaking archer and kill him quickly and easy. We can get an RA called trueshot which bypasses BT but for 5 points its 1 shot thats on a 10 minute timer that once it passes BT is absorbed by the brittle guards.

Any tank with decent equipment and know of the game iwll kill an archer with ease, arm shield and run at them, once engaged kill. Light tanks just charge and once engaged with a light tank its completely over.

Attack support, cleric, shaman, druid, just pops moc one and buff shears you, healers can insta stun then land a nice long duration mezz on you, same as a bard will just insta amnesia/mezz.

Then you have guard and bodyguard, both of which completely nulify an archer, so that animist you thought you were gonna kill is no completely immune to you because a tank is stood guarding or bodyguarding him.

This is why so many archers are now melee spec, simply due to the fact that speccing melee offers much more in terms of killing enemies than the bow line at this current time. Those archers who do stay bow do tend to stay more around keeps/towers/bridges, and tend to group more, to increase he chance of killing and making rp's.

I am hoping Mythic give us alot of tools to combat the problems we encounter on a daily basis, we don't need a huge DPS increase although a small one for speccing high bow would be nice, we just need the bow line to be made viable and worth speccing once again.

My ranger is full bow, with a +26 dex 9% damage, 10% speed 10% range template, aug dex 4 and FE2 (raising it to FE4 at rr6), i have just specced out of trueshot due to the amount of times i hit a brittle on my 1 special shot on a 10 minute timer. Last week i attacked an SM from roughly max range, he was able to pop moc, run at me and nuke me down as i continued to fire arrows into him. My RF damage was around 200-300+ with the occasional crits, he took me down in 3 nukes. Now with the maximum possible bow bonuses in my template i was unable to kill a caster from max distance, its a good example of the issues archers face at these current times.

Also as from 1.83 we lose 5% of our damage due to the armor table changes.

 

[Elrandhir]

dont take Jox's post 2 serious. Jox is something like the good soul of FH.

So ur and my post here are more useless than his.

PS:

especialy his Threads are fun 2 read

Afraid I can't even have fun at something that short, hard to even make anything out of it atall tbh.

 

[Aiteal]

Done it loads of times so I dunno what's so hard about it really. ofc they are engaged in something else so they don't notice when the bubble burst and they start to look like a pincushion.

Ahhh
You are adding/leeching then
well thats ok, nothing wrong with that

bit sad don't you think that your recommendation after 3 years of playing an archer is to add
doesn't that imply there's something wrong with the class?

 

[Flimgoblin]

give armsmen penetrating arrow/rapid fire oh and bolt range for crossbows.

That or double damage

That's all the archery improvements that are needed

Main problem with making critshot ignore BT is that you can hit for 700 + 350 + 350 + 350 +350 on a caster before the first arrow lands.

Heck my cleric gets shot for 800 whenever he's near a tower and he's in chainmail + AF buff.

Archery DPS is low, however the burst dps is decent, and the whole "surprise!" factor adds to that.
Assassin dps is high, and they also have the "surprise" factor but they also have to get within nuke range, past the traps, past the prescience nodes and the other stealthers to do that whole surprise thing.

 

[Nosufer]

Main problem with making critshot ignore BT is that you can hit for 700 + 350 + 350 + 350 +350 on a caster before the first arrow lands.

I think you example is extremely inaccurate, to be hitting a caster for 350 that would be rapid fire with possible crits or normal shots against a high PD caster (in which case the second normal shot is released at the crit shot lands), now soon as my critshot is fired i load my arrow and release the RF shot, i can get 1 arrow off by the time my crit shot lands with 10% bow speed and ranger champ bow. Now possibly if i changed from champ bow at 5.7 speed to fools bow at 4.9 speed i could get another RF shot off, but then the damage on each shot wouldn't represent the figures you posted.

 

[Cromcruaich]

the general vibe i get from archers is they want to hit like casters, from more range, faster, and be able to stealth and pick their fights, oh and in the case of scouts slam hunters FZ ranger CD etc, been a pain in the arse even in melee

what they need is a kick in the teeth

i know they have lots of inherent problems, but they fall in the same catagory as the old 1-shot PA not unstealthing.. its buggy but its balancing, if they fix the mix rate, the crit shot rate, etc it will be laughable for a class that suffers from 7 on /stick , all /asissting

well said

 

[Jeriraa]

Archery DPS is low, however the burst dps is decent, and the whole "surprise!" factor adds to that.

Indeed. Thats why the majority is not asking for dps increases.

 

[Aiteal]

Archery DPS is low, however the burst dps is decent, and the whole "surprise!" factor adds to that.
Assassin dps is high, and they also have the "surprise" factor but they also have to get within nuke range, past the traps, past the prescience nodes and the other stealthers to do that whole surprise thing.

Surprise!!!!
Theres a big arrow that didnt damage you in your chest pointing to the guy that shot it
Now simply last attacker/face quick cast if necessary, interupt him once and he's rps on a stick.

I attacked a mid caster a few weeks back in jamtland mountains, he was riding along on his horsey with no brittle in tow.
Wow I thought, no brittle, gonna kill me a caster with my bow.
Put on my GSV/GolM for the extra archery bonuses (405 dex and 7% damage)
Used sure shot to penetrate and pop his bubble, knocking him off his horsey in the process, switched to rapid fire and spammed the keys as quick as possible, he quick casted a mezz, which I purged, but by that stage i was interupted, he spammed his spells, I died.

So after spending RP's for sureshot and purge 2, positioning myself so I was to his rear, knocking him off his horse with the element of "surprise!", he quick casted to interupt and then spammed his spell key and killed me.

You know, I wasn't in the least bit suprised that I died.

 

[Matmardigan]

I can't understand why so many thinks that archers need to be improved? I've had no problems playing my hunter (50 bow) successfully and pop most other classes, it's a matter of positioning and using the enviroment to it's fullest potential. Sure it's easy to camp towers and bridges but far from the only option even if you specced 45-50 in bow.

u as a SOLO BOW SPEC hunter should have noticed following points

- Line of sight bug which makes use of bow impossible.
- Difference between Bow draw time and the incredible recast time of casters.
- geting interupted and sureshot isnt equivalent 2 the dmg u get.
- geting interupted which lets u fumble the next 3-4 seconds.
- miss rate.
-Critshot not usebale cause
.Target is moving
.Target is in Combat
.Target have brittle Guards
and last but not least, ur bullshit about use of fullest potential
- U hardly can use fullest potential most of the time cause u and ur target arent alone mostly, MMORG so some other players play this game 2.

Afraid I can't even have fun at something that short, hard to even make anything out of it atall tbh.

spoiler

 

[Flimgoblin]

I think you example is extremely inaccurate, to be hitting a caster for 350 that would be rapid fire with possible crits or normal shots against a high PD caster (in which case the second normal shot is released at the crit shot lands), now soon as my critshot is fired i load my arrow and release the RF shot, i can get 1 arrow off by the time my crit shot lands with 10% bow speed and ranger champ bow. Now possibly if i changed from champ bow at 5.7 speed to fools bow at 4.9 speed i could get another RF shot off, but then the damage on each shot wouldn't represent the figures you posted.

depends on the range - from a tower you'll get a few off, with a bit of lag you'll get more.

From personal experience I get hit 3 times before I know I'm being hit, then try to sprint out of range and get hit a few more times...

On a cleric it's damned painful.

On a caster without BT it'd be fatal, every time.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Surprise!!!!
Theres a big arrow that didnt damage you in your chest pointing to the guy that shot it
Now simply last attacker/face quick cast if necessary, interupt him once and he's rps on a stick.

Actually, last attacker doesn't work if it pings your BT (doesn't set the attacker either).

And most of the time even after I get hit I get "Last attacker is out of range" or "target is too far away to face".

Sure it's not a guaranteed kill every time you point your bow at a caster but it's hardly "omgz I unstealthed and instadied!" either. As for interrupts - use sureshot, sure it's crap damage but unless they're mocing they get interrupted, you don't.

 

[Elrandhir]

Nosufers description about how it is as an Archer is rather accurate tbh, in a zerg you can usually get away with many things as all are so busy hitting someone else, but otherwise what Nosufer wrote is pretty accurate.

And well Flim, my Ranger has FE IV(Same as MoP but for Bow) and Aug dex III atm and still it's rather rare getting that high on chain tbh, I have gotten high because of crap resists but not often otherwise even with my RA adds to bow damage and I have more or less Maxed TOA adds to bow also.

Range is good for Archers yes, but as I usually aint tower camping it's very seldom you actually get the full use of you'r range, sure you can avoid shooting until you have max range at all times, but gah changeing you'r position all the time with the Uber stealth Speed.

The Bowline needs to be looked at tbh, from playing a Bowspecced Ranger and haveing two friends haveing Melee specced rangers I see that you loose out very much on haveing the Spec I do tbh and I really do understand that many Spec Melee.

This thread starts to get abit silly though as most of these things are already posted, but seems people just skip what they don't like and make make a post with how they want and see things.

Some posts are good even if they don't think that archers need improveing because atleast they have something saying why this and that shouldent be changed.

(But then we also have the totally pointless posts with some random crap statement in just because they don't think the class should be improved needed or not).

 

[Nosufer]

depends on the range - from a tower you'll get a few off, with a bit of lag you'll get more.

From personal experience I get hit 3 times before I know I'm being hit, then try to sprint out of range and get hit a few more times...

On a cleric it's damned painful.

On a caster without BT it'd be fatal, every time.

From towers with the 500 range elevation bonus sure that 1RF shot might turn into 2 before crit lands but these won't land at the same time as crit, and also take into account if the caster has BT and Brittle up then the Crit + first RF shot will miss, so you will get hit for roughly 200-350 depending on crits. Lv10 Towers and Keeps shouldn't bee needed for archery DPS to be fine and for us to make kills, in the open field a caster is usually moving, if they watch their combat window they will see BT absorb damage, face>QC problem solved for most. I have very few problem with archers on my chanter, because there are so many ways to counter them.

If you are getting hit 3 times before you know you are being hit check your connection, because with a very nice PC, no lag i get 1 RF shot off just before crit lands with my champ bow, this can change to 2 as i said with elevation bonuses.

Your cleric has plenty of defence vs archers, spec AF giving you roughly 800+ armor factor, and the ability to insta heal yourself as you moc1 and buffshear the ranger of his buffs.

 

[Nosufer]

And most of the time even after I get hit I get "Last attacker is out of range" or "target is too far away to face".
.

The arrow is a dead giveaway, one of the reasons Mythic put the arrow in was to counter this problem.