Thread to discuss Archery improvements!

[GrivneKelmorian]

Some archer improvements/changes:

1) Remove PD. Having PD on a melee class is just stupid.
2) Remove IP. Assassins lost this, and so should archers.
3) Make bow styles that works in-melee (legolas style) at 30+ bow spec. This to make the bow the prefered melee and range tool. This should be done so it doesn't increase ranged DPS.
4) Add bow styles at 40+ bow spec that have ranged utility. Ie... by pass brittles, etc.

Imo these are very good suggestions to improvement/balancing/changing the archer classes.

In current game it feels like, when fighting archers, that those who step outside a tower are pure melee spec and those humping the tower beeing bow spec.

An archer is meant to be an archer, isnt it? Not a melee class with range option?

 

[Konah]

<delete> Y E S

 

[Palekick]

An archer is meant to be an archer, isnt it? Not a melee class with range option?

nop, archers are meant for tower/keep defenses/attacks, nothing more, its what this world of camelot has designed ehm for, at least thats my pov of developments in this game, tho with our current Irvr state i doubt theres much goin in that for the archers to have a chance besides waitin and hopin (camping, zerging, leeching)

 

[Aran Thule]

300 dmg, being shot every half a sec or below, adds up.

Hmm interesting, would like to see the chat log of that.
Im a bow ranger and i can do 300 damage with rapid fire, but shots take 3 seconds, just as 600 normal shot takes 6 seconds, not sure where your getting the half second from.
Oh and sureshot, yes it allows me to fire without being interupted from range but 300 damage every 6 seconds isnt going to win me any fights when mages can kill me within that time.
As for melee, you will find a lot of pangers forsaking bow and going full slash/CD, the main reason for this is that bow is so unrewarding, so they end up specing like a stealth blademaster.
I know for one thing, my melee doesnt need nerfing, im 34(+17)pierce and i still cant fight for toffee, the changes to assassin poison have cripple me still futher and now effect bow.

Assisting archers hurt, but so does anything else assisting.
The incoming change to the armour tables is an effective damage nerf to me given i try to match the arrow to the target.
Mythic state they cant code elemental arrows when we know they already exist as there are cold arrows as a reward for a mid quest.
Fletching is dead, noone uses it as who would use crafted instruments/bows compared with artifacts and drops.

There are also the countless other issues, the cant get good sight (targeting should be from head not feet), the heat seeking pets, the fact that bolts and arrows have travel time which allows them to hit after target is out of sight ect.

Allowing elemental arrows is a good start, but there needs to be a reason for speccing high bow.
Things should be added 40-50 that mean archers can be archers, given the countless defences that negate the line someone that gives a chance to actually do something.
(note that there is always a 20%+ chance to unsteath when drawing crit shot)

A few ideas along similar lines to penertrating arrow:
40: Marksman
25% chance to hit target through guard
Crit shot from stealth cannot be evaded or guarded

45: Skilled Marksman
50% chance to hit target through guard
Crit shot from stealth cannot be evaded or guarded
20% chance to bypass shield , 10% when engaged

50: Master Marksman
75% chance to hit target through guard
Crit shot from stealth cannot be evaded or guarded
40% chance to bypass shield , 20% when engaged
Targets evade reduced by 50% vs Ranged


Well thats enough for now <grin> but the last few bits of wood for the fire...
Archery speed is hardcapped at 250 quick same as tanks, it should either be moved so its based on dex (this might cause the machine gun effect)
Or (and listen to the screams) Mage cast speed should be capped at 250 to bring it in line with everything else.
Last bit, can anyone explain why (please say if i got this wrong) assassins can put envenom on items and this lets them use better poisons, shouldnt the poisons they can use be limited by thier actual spec?

 

[Daedalus]

In order to fix archers, you need to fix the whole game.

1) Normalize stat caps and introduce min values. (will fix certain classes being OP because their attacks are nearly instant)
2) Increase base cast speed.
3) Interrupts should no longer cancels spells but delays them by 300%.
4) Increase name visibility range.
5) Decrease archery range to +5% above the average caster range.
6) Introduce different bows (slow firerate, high damage (similar to single target bolt-like damage and high firerate) and lower damage (similar to single target DD))
7) Remove equipment-based resists, increase buff-based resists.
8) Scale terrain down to 75%, decrease mach speed with 20%.
9) Improve texture caching system.
10) Use octree based terrain and texture management for much better performance.
11) Add some proper interpolation code to the clients; pet pathing should be done by the clients, but relative to the player char. Players on /stuck and /face and /jumping would no longer teleport all over the place and back again.
12) Allow players to port to the beachhead keeps but only, and only, if they're owned by the realm (including towers) and no enemies are in the vicinity (or attacking the keep).
13) DAoC currently uses over 1400 MB of memory (physical/virtual striped 50/50 default Windows XP memory management settings). That is _WAY TOO MUCH_. Two years ago a lot of texture data was loaded more than once (each char had its own allocation of texture data), it's probably still the same. I don't care what's demanding that huge amount of data but it can definitely be brought down to 512 MB.
14) Gather things which players are experiencing negatively and are 'working as intended' because their job is to penalize (for example, slow movement during RS) and revamp that.

 

[Aiteal]

Actually no, we don't. Seem's quite fine to me as it is, and i've been crit shot for 900+ before in plate armour. Just because the latest fad is for rangers not to use their bows doesn't mean theres anything wrong with Archery in general.

Give archers snapshot
If a big smelly highlander in full plate armour can run along whilst managing to pull a crossbow by putting his foot in a little metal D my purdy smelling and highly dextrous elf can draw his bow whilst running

and fire over his head pointy eared Jimmy Hendrix style

But seriously, archery has more counters to it than any other attack ingame

Last bit, can anyone explain why (please say if i got this wrong) assassins can put envenom on items and this lets them use better poisons, shouldnt the poisons they can use be limited by thier actual spec?

Dunno tbh, pretty much the only class that gets skills they didnt spec for through items, but just give an immunity to poisions and I'll be happy enough.
Although +env does cut down on their dot variance.

 

[Shagrat]

quite happy with how my ranger is now tbh. Although I avoid the iRvR slaughterfest that is populated by rr7+ stealther hordes.... best suggestions ive seen in here are the minor tweaks in the 45-50 bow range.....atm speccing to 50 bow doesnt seem worth it.

but of all the toons ive levelled to 50, its the one ive done best on solo (bearing in mind i run without a bot).

 

[Phule_Gubben]

I don't see the issue with any archer class as they are today. They are meant to specc in bow or else they ain't archers imo. From what I've seen so far the suggestions lean towards solo warfare all the time. The game isn't designed for soloers since it is a mmorpg. People can whine and cry about how much they want, some ppl follow the unspoken rule of letting 1v1 be fought til one of em die, but not all. In fact most people doesn't care, I do sometimes but most often not.

And tbh. it can't be that bad that some of you guys says, too many hunters/rangers/scouts do perform well solo, and they are bow specced.

The issue when facing casters are to me plain and simple.
1. shoot bubble.
2. draw for a critshot and they're below 40-50% health.
3. 2-3 quickshots = dead caster.

How hard is that? It's not. We got range, use it or loose the fight.

/Flame on!

 

[Aiteal]

The issue when facing casters are to me plain and simple.
1. shoot bubble.
2. draw for a critshot and they're below 40-50% health.
3. 2-3 quickshots = dead caster.

How hard is that? It's not. We got range, use it or loose the fight.

/Flame on!

Sorry, you mean

The issue when facing AFK casters are to me plain and simple.

what caster stands around waiting to see whats gonna happen next after his bubble drops and theres a geat big arrow pointing out of his chest pointing towards the culprit

 

[Elrandhir]

All we know is that the great majority of bow specced archers including yours do nothing but leech off 1v1s, 8v8s and when none of those are to be found, camp a tower, hang around the zerg and run from 1v1s blowing every RA and ML just to escape rather than win, when the player you attack gets within 500 units.

Yes it may be a flaw of the class design that encourages this, but it won't really get you sympathy.

Another post, this one will get 2:a price for pointless post.
And another award for Generalising.
and a third for being cluless haha.

 

[Elrandhir]

you get to pick and chose your fights, you find it hard kill casters, join the club, only difference is, if i see a caster i have no other option than to engage, you can just stealth on by, you strugle vs heavy tanks, again, nobody finds them easy, you can just stealth on by. you can still ping arrows into light tanks, some casters, hybrids from range, thats ofc if you feel like it, if you dont you can just move on unseen.

1 thing, Heros was never meant to solo though.

 

[Jeriraa]

The issue when facing casters are to me plain and simple.
1. shoot bubble.
2. draw for a critshot and they're below 40-50% health.
3. 2-3 quickshots = dead caster.

How hard is that? It's not. We got range, use it or loose the fight.

/Flame on!

Spot on for another ignorant and unresearched post.

You can not critshot a target once it is put into combat mode (by your 1st arrow wich will hit the brittle and not the bubble.) And as much as I like those casters that let me shoot them till they are dead, I don't encounter them often.

 

[Cozak]

1 thing, Heros was never meant to solo though.

Says who? From what I have read skipping through this thread the majority of your posts should have all of the awards you talk about.

Another post, this one will get 2:a price for pointless post.
And another award for Generalising.
and a third for being cluless haha.

Looks like you have trouble counting, let alone posting a constructive, non-retarded argument.

 

[Elrandhir]

Sorry its you the guy without a clue, only posts I ever seen from you are whine period, not one post non whine. You perma whine about not being able to kill shield tanks, so get a clue yourself, dont fucking shoot one?


Did you get the point yet????

I illustrated my point , I cant kill casters unless I land on top of them, you work out why you can't kill a shield tank and come back to me...

Wont comment on anything else but:
You can kill them in a group as the Hero was intended for, unlike Assassins and archers that is intended to go solo.

But otherwise true it's hard to take a mage as a hero for sure, if you can't get close fast, and if he get distance again you'r screwed.

 

[Elrandhir]

Says who? From what I have read skipping through this thread the majority of your posts should have all of the awards you talk about.


Looks like you have trouble counting, let alone posting a constructive, non-retarded argument.

Says, it's more how the class is designed, you can ofcourse go solo, but I doubht that it was intended for the Hero to do so, I really do hope you realise this tbh.

What about constructive, there wasent really anything more to say about it, because that post only got the response it deserved imo.

And I guess the one saying it is it tbh.

 

[Cozak]

Says, it's more how the class is designed, you can ofcourse go solo, but I doubht that it was intended for the Hero to do so, I really do hope you realise this tbh.

Why shouldnt a hero be able to solo? Has plenty of tools to survive against pretty much anything. Your posts are complete bullshit ;x

 

[Elrandhir]

Why shouldnt a hero be able to solo? Has plenty of tools to survive against pretty much anything. Your posts are complete bullshit ;x

Who is talking about shouldent, I aint, Im talking about what the class was designed for, and I doubht it was for soloing or.

Haha nice, talk about Constructive posts nice 1 ;D

 

[Cozak]

Who is talking about shouldent, I aint, Im talking about what the class was designed for, and I doubht it was for soloing or.

Haha nice, talk about Constructive posts nice 1 ;D

I very much doubt the class was designed to 'only' play in a group or 'only' play solo, it was just.. designed. They are a very good all round class.

I do not intend to make a constructive post towards this thread either ^^ The points censi made are stupid, imo.

 

[Elrandhir]

I very much doubt the class was designed to 'only' play in a group or 'only' play solo, it was just.. designed. They are a very good all round class.

I do not intend to make a constructive post towards this thread either ^^ The points censi made are stupid, imo.

Na, Im not saying they are perfect, but atleast they have something meaningful to say, unlike you'r posts!

I agree fully with you there because you havent.

Ideas is never bad, some things may be overdoing it, but some things are good.

And I think this will be my last post, because I have already said what I wanted to earlier, just pointless spam atm.

 

[RejuvFluff]

..tell me whats wrong with archers except.. they can fucking hit you from a range were u can barely see em.

When im on a tower, they can hit me from the keep structures. and hit for for allot.
Some scouts hit me for 400-500.. and i got max resists.

The longer the range they shooting from, the lesser dmg it should do.

well if you compare this to a fucking wizz who bolts your ass for 1000+/- it's no big deal is it? or a fucking SM with 600'ish dmg lifetap with 90% lifedrain?

I really dont understand all this bitching about archers... if the arrows at 90% lifedrain on them, fine.. but they dont.

archery is actually one of the least rewarding line to spec in... just above crossbow for armsmen.

just respecced my scout back to 50 longbow from 29 longbow, overall there is almost no dmg. diffrence.. a bit higher caps(wich I only make on casters with no buffs or selfbuffs)

If it weren't for the fact that scout is completely fucking useless in melee I'd go 50/50 s/s without thinking about it..

so, quit whining m8erz

 

[censi]

Actually no, we don't. Seem's quite fine to me as it is, and i've been crit shot for 900+ before in plate armour. Just because the latest fad is for rangers not to use their bows doesn't mean theres anything wrong with Archery in general.

I once one shotted a BD with side stun. BD needs love. Utterly clueless limited statement. ask yourself what a "fad" is and why theres a fucking fad.

 

[Tuorin]

Wont comment on anything else but:
You can kill them in a group as the Hero was intended for, unlike Assassins and archers that is intended to go solo.

But otherwise true it's hard to take a mage as a hero for sure, if you can't get close fast, and if he get distance again you'r screwed.

The laws of soloing as a heavy tank vs mages and fighting them in groups are completely different. Another player might cc them and yes they can be killed quite easily in group combat, just as you can die just as easily. The new additions are fine once up, but 10 secs every 15 minutes makes it generally limiting.

Hero is completely viable as a solo toon, just against the regular solo brigade, group orientated skills and ra's can water it down. It also is a toon that tends to get zerged by stealthers, my warden never did, but hero did a lot, so can be very limiting fun.

I gave up pre cluster, 3 fz's in the same original solo fight was the clincher. ;/

 

[Kagato]

I once one shotted a BD with side stun. BD needs love. Utterly clueless limited statement. ask yourself what a "fad" is and why theres a fucking fad.

Because people are always looking to gain an extra edge on the enemy, that does not mean there was anything wrong with the old 'fad' either.

 

[northernmonkey]

dunno if its been said already as i got to page 5 and thought i cant read anymore its far to early in the morning so......

i think that the different damage types of arrows should be able to cause
a) bleed effect = slash or thrust
b) sting (movement impaired effect) = slash or thrust
c) stun (not as long as say slam or other types of stun) = crush

of course with a certain % chance to hit.

 

[Dukat]

Seem's quite fine to me as it is, and i've been crit shot for 900+ before in plate armour. Just because the latest fad is for rangers not to use their bows doesn't mean theres anything wrong with Archery in general.

I dont know if you have ever played a scout in RvR, but this statement suggests that you have not done so a huge amount.

The odd critshot at 900 really doesnt prove anything much at all.

It has very little at all to do with rangers to be fair, but the fact that 9 out of 10 rangers seem to be melee specced shoud surely point to a trend of people playing that class prefering melee to archery?

You could draw conclusions from the fact that very few bowscouts solo. most of the solo scouts nowadays are melee specced, that is for a reason, bow really does have problems and melee is much preferred to bow in many cases in a 1 on 1.

Archery is low utility - damage only. none of our abilities really change this.

To make matters worse, the damage that archery inflicts is inferior to almost any other specline ranged attack in the game. The speed at which we can inflict it is hard capped at approximately DOUBLE the cap on casting times.

Range is the one thing we have in favour - oh wait sorry, now warlocks can reach further than us too.

Never mind the fact that archery is the only specline ranged damage that can be blocked. It is the only ranged damage that can be fumbled, and is also the only ranged damage that can miss - aside from bolts, which by the way has a MASSIVELY higher dps than archery, as well as a lower capped cast time.

Really there is ALOT wrong with archery in general. this thread is not archers whining, its archers stating FACTS about something that we really need sorted.

 

[Shike]

well...

Days like this it is hard to accept an archer, any archer in general. My lil luributt was a pincushion all evening, and we was roaming with FG in Emain... there was scouts and hunters allover emain adding 24/7 all evening. Funny though, not one single assassin jumped us tonight, not one.

I cant honestly say I believe archers need any love of any kind, moreso a direct nerf to bowrange and bowdamage would be in place since there are soooooo many idiots out there that spend their entire evening on adding on everything in sight. And what makes it even more fun, when you take your time to try and kill them, they PS and run away. Hooray!

A stealthed longrange DPSclass is just silly these days, since there are too many of them, if anything, make their defenses utter shit so they cant win vs assassin at all at any time so we have some pestcontrol done by assassins at least, since those are the only ones that actually can hunt them down.

I know not all archers are asshats, but fact is, a majority is, and the archetype in itself have gotten itself a really awfully bad reputation just because of how people choose to play it.

 

[Konah]

What needs to be fixed is the hunter seeing "xxxx evades your attack!" all the time tbh

you could go 1-handed and enjoy scout-ish melee dmg instead?

 

[xxManiacxx]

you could go 1-handed and enjoy scout-ish melee dmg instead?

yeah without slam. good idea!

 

[Eeben]

Fun thing i find funny is pretty much everybody says the same.

You should not be abel to kill a assasin
You should not be abel to kil a tank

fair enough,then there is casters an healers left?

You attack caster with bow, brittle takes the first hit. the caster notice he is being attackt an run around to find you or tryes to run out of range. Next arrow hits bt now he can face you. 3rd arrow hits you hit random caster for 300 damage, random caster hits you back for 500 every 2 secound an your dead..

was 35 bow first when i startet out on my scout but wasnt really worth haveing that much was only a leeching/pulling tool) an since your need a pretty high ws to get any hits in on evade 7 wich the enemy you fight 90% of all your fights have i respect to 50 thrust an got 18 longbow now!!! can still crit for 500 wich is fine enough for me..

ps. all the ppl whining about aom,mos,ip an pd..Get a fucking clue..you know what rr you need to get all those toys???

 

[Jeriraa]

well...

I know not all archers are asshats, but fact is, a majority is, and the archetype in itself have gotten itself a really awfully bad reputation just because of how people choose to play it.

Let me shamelessly quote myself:

1st one to all the people crying about archers atm and their current playstyle (camping towers and bridges in packs and leeching): The issues people bring up here are the cause to this. A bow spec'd archer has no other way to play this game.
...
The occassions on wich a bow spec'd archer is able to kill something solo are so rare that they have no other chance than to gang up and leech.

Those who aint asshats have spec'd out of bow and are now playing a different class. The other ones are playing their class the only way it is playable. That is why we are asking for archery improvments.