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[BloodOmen]

I wouldn't leave my 5 year old sibling in the company of a dog on their own.

Common sense kicks in.

Or do we really need laws to make up for stupidity?

Way to miss the point entirely, do you think people just leave their kids by the side of the road for dogs to attack? they can attack even if the child is with an adult or in its own garden playing happily.

If they did make a law for stupidity tho you should be first in line Gwad

 

[Scouse]

So your telling me you could happily see someone go to jail for 2 years and be out in 1 year if say for pure example your 5 year old sibling was killed by a pack of dogs? I'm quite disappointed in you if so.

There's no "happily" about it. In 99% of dog-attack cases the owners of the dogs didn't want or expect it to happen.

You're acting like dog owners are a bunch of rabid loonies just waiting to loose their trained weapons on unsuspecting babies.

I bet you detest foxes too, and would jail "the countryside" if one snatched a child, presuming you could fit that much soil in the pens

 

[DaGaffer]

Disagree, strongly. It's certainly not an argument about "semantics".

No its not, but you're the one who was making the semantic argument. If a dog does a dangerous thing, its a dangerous dog.

A gun doesn't shoot a kid in their face by themselves. A saw doesn't saw off a moron's arm off by itself.

A dog, which has no previous at all, can turn around and maul someone on its own cogniscence. It has a mind of its own.

...

And that doesn't matter. The duty of care is the same. And as a dog is unpredictable, then that just means the standard for the duty of care should be higher, not lower. Don't like it? Don't own a dog.

(And FYI, you have a duty of care to account for the stupidity of the children and the guy who sticks his arm in the saw; they' have minds of their own as well)

 

[BloodOmen]

There's no "happily" about it. In 99% of dog-attack cases the owners of the dogs didn't want or expect it to happen.

You're acting like dog owners are a bunch of rabid loonies just waiting to loose their trained weapons on unsuspecting babies.

I bet you detest foxes too, and would jail "the countryside" if one snatched a child, presuming you could fit that much soil in the pens

You still miss the point? I don't know why I bother, it's like talking to a fucking brick wall with you Scouse because you only see what you want to see.

 

[Scouse]

You still miss the point? I don't know why I bother, it's like talking to a fucking brick wall with you Scouse because you only see what you want to see.

No. I get your point. I just don't think it's sufficient justification to up the criminal sanctions involved.

 

[Gwadien]

I also see where you're coming Blood, but I just see it as a scape-goat, and will be classed under the same thing as murder - you did it, therefore you're going to prisons, no ifs, no buts...

Old granny walking down the street with her 10 year old dog, (and a cheese burger, with no bun) who's been an angel all its life, then a kid comes and kicks it (YOU KICK MY DOG) Kid gets mullered by the dog, Granny should go to prison? Because if this was law, that would happen, how would the courts know that the dog has been a lovely dog for ever?

I'm pretty sure people would go to prison if they literally set their dog on someone.

 

[Scouse]

If a dog does a dangerous thing, its a dangerous dog.

A dog is a dangerous dog, even if it's not done a dangerous thing. They're inherently dangerous.

We should understand that reality and accept the consequences if we want to keep them as pets.

as a dog is unpredictable

That's the nail on the head thing. They're unpredictable.

So what does a "duty of care" mean for an unpredictable animal with a mind of it's own? You cannot be around 100% of the time. It's impossible. So the vast majority of people feed, water, train and keep them in a good way, in a good manner.

Sometimes, despite them fulfilling their duty of care as best they can in an imperfect world, said mutt goes nuts and kills someone. Not often, but it happens.

I think that the current law is certainly harsh enough to cover the vast majority of those situations where a dreadful incident occurs. Some people die. How many dog owners do you think exist that wouldn't be mortified by that unplanned situation?

 

[DaGaffer]

I also see where you're coming Blood, but I just see it as a scape-goat, and will be classed under the same thing as murder - you did it, therefore you're going to prisons, no ifs, no buts...

Old granny walking down the street with her 10 year old dog, (and a cheese burger, with no bun) who's been an angel all its life, then a kid comes and kicks it (YOU KICK MY DOG) Kid gets mullered by the dog, Granny should go to prison? Because if this was law, that would happen, how would the courts know that the dog has been a lovely dog for ever?

I'm pretty sure people would go to prison if they literally set their dog on someone.

No, because the kid provoked the dog. Don't be a moron. UK law works on precedent. If precedent was established that kicking a dog was acceptable and shouldn't get your nuts chewed off for doing so, then yes, granny would go to jail, but UK law won't establish that precedent because it would be fucking stupid, so no, granny won't go to jail.

Edit. Actually Scouse this applies to your reasoning as well. A judge will decide the reasonableness of the circumstances, but if this law is on the books then proper negligence can be properly punished.

 

[Raven]

Can we have some memes now please?

 

[soze]

But they can easily leg it - not like their dogs wear collars with ID or are microchipped.

This is a nothing change thats from the 'seen to be doing something' rule of politics like much the coalition does.

I pretty much guarantee no one will ever get life - nor should they really - sentences should be about half of the equivalent offence if comitted directly by a person.

The idea that you will get a worse punishment if your dog bites a burglar than if you shot him yourself is a bit crazy...

Earlier I said that dogs should be licensed and should all be chipped. It is the only way you could try to prove it is a dangerous dog. I would much rather see this enforced and the dangerous dogs taken away from irresponsible owners.

And again I don't think that every time someone gets bit should that it should result in a 15 year sentence, that's not what the law is about. So in your example if someone breaks into your house and attacks you prompting your dog to bite them I highly doubt they would give you 15 years for that.

The law is about punishing owners when someone gets seriously hurt by a dangerous dog that has been trained to be aggressive. Your dog protecting you or a your dog biting a kid that pulls its tail should not result in prison time.

 

[BloodOmen]

No idea what your talking about.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So how many of you lot actually own a dog? *lifts hand* Simple qustion, no if's or but's.

 

[Gwadien]

So how many of you lot actually own a dog? *lifts hand* Simple qustion, no if's or but's.

No, but if yours attacks someone youre in prison for 25 years, now go stroke your lovely baby.

 

[Raven]

Euphemism ahoy!

 

[Job]

Its only matter of time before dogs have to have their teeth ground down by law...we are slowly eroding all risk in life and allowing amoral animals in our midst with skin ripping weapons at their highly unpredictable disposal will seem likw insanity in the future.

 

[soze]

So how many of you lot actually own a dog? *lifts hand* Simple qustion, no if's or but's.

I do but it is a lazy shit and lives with my ex. The only way it would kill you is if it smothered you when it fell asleep on you.

 

[Edmond]

I love dogs, but i couldn't stand the smell in the house. Every customers house i enter, i can tell straight away if they have a dog because of the smell

Also most of the time the 1st thing they say is 'are you ok with dogs' as a yappy thing jumps up or wipes its wet nose around my ankles (yes i wear shorts atm cos its summer)

 

[Billargh]

Didn't know Zidane was such a great pool player..

His opponent somewhat looks like Saddam Hussain

 

[Shagrat]

 

[Scouse]

soze, BloodOmen, DaGaffer.

Funny. And not a word of a lie:

Just nipped round an old colleagues house on my bike - not seen him in 6 months. Gave him, like, a minutes notice.

He was there with his wife and his daughter and his granddaughter. I got off my bike and Mick opened the back gate for me - which I wheeled my bike through. His daughter was dog minding one of her friend's dogs. A suddenly, and shockingly to all concerned, very angry one of these:

Spoiler

I don't know what breed it is, but it's fuck ugly and the exactly the sort of dog chavs love

After wearing the biggest pair of testicles for a good two minutes as it looked like it was going to maul me I managed to stroke it (to everyone else's apologies - but I looked cool as I laughed it off). It was literally inches from my balls and not happy in the slightest. I did genuinely fear that I was in for a maiming. But then I seemingly calmed it down.

I then stood up and went to move a chair to sit with the family - and the shit started all over again.

My mates missus told her granddaughter to get the dog out of the house. It scared the living shit out of them - they were *really* worried that it was going to go for me properly - and there's not much I could have done if it did.


Now. Jody is a lovely girl with some dodgy mates. Under the new rules if the dog had mauled me (she'd have been completely mortified) then she'd have been prosecuted.

Not through a complaint of mine - the police would have pressed charges as she was technically in charge.


How would that have been fair? It's not even her dog and she'd never seen it like that - but it took one look at me and completely turned.

Now, I feel like the thing is clearly a danger - and I'd see it put down now, before it scares the living shit out of people like that again - never mind if it would ever have mauled me or not. But I'd definitely not want to see Jody prosecuted if it did.

How do we square this new law with this evenings experience? Which, I have to admit, is the first time this has ever happened to me. And genuinely not a word of a lie or embellishment.


Freaky

 

[Raven]

It was probably all that lycra that set it off.

 

[Aoami]

In that situation, straight away just tie the fucking thing up outside, its a dog ffs.

 

[Scouse]

It was probably all that lycra that set it off.

I don't do lycra

In that situation, straight away just tie the fucking thing up outside, its a dog ffs.

It was almost uncontrollable. Completely flipped apparently. Took Jody ages to get it on its lead and she was shitting herself :|

 

[ileks]

soze, BloodOmen, DaGaffer.

Funny. And not a word of a lie:

Just nipped round an old colleagues house on my bike - not seen him in 6 months. Gave him, like, a minutes notice.

He was there with his wife and his daughter and his granddaughter. I got off my bike and Mick opened the back gate for me - which I wheeled my bike through. His daughter was dog minding one of her friend's dogs. A suddenly, and shockingly to all concerned, very angry one of these:

Spoiler

View attachment 15520
I don't know what breed it is, but it's fuck ugly and the exactly the sort of dog chavs love

After wearing the biggest pair of testicles for a good two minutes as it looked like it was going to maul me I managed to stroke it (to everyone else's apologies - but I looked cool as I laughed it off). It was literally inches from my balls and not happy in the slightest. I did genuinely fear that I was in for a maiming. But then I seemingly calmed it down.

I then stood up and went to move a chair to sit with the family - and the shit started all over again.

My mates missus told her granddaughter to get the dog out of the house. It scared the living shit out of them - they were *really* worried that it was going to go for me properly - and there's not much I could have done if it did.


Now. Jody is a lovely girl with some dodgy mates. Under the new rules if the dog had mauled me (she'd have been completely mortified) then she'd have been prosecuted.

Not through a complaint of mine - the police would have pressed charges as she was technically in charge.


How would that have been fair? It's not even her dog and she'd never seen it like that - but it took one look at me and completely turned.

Now, I feel like the thing is clearly a danger - and I'd see it put down now, before it scares the living shit out of people like that again - never mind if it would ever have mauled me or not. But I'd definitely not want to see Jody prosecuted if it did.

How do we square this new law with this evenings experience? Which, I have to admit, is the first time this has ever happened to me. And genuinely not a word of a lie or embellishment.


Freaky

It's her responsibility to control the dog. It's that simple really.

It doesn't matter if she'd be fucking mortified if it bit you. Yes dogs have a mind of their own and are unpredictable. She knows that. As a result she should tie it up or fit a muzzle while it's around people.

Also, why don't longer prison sentences work? A bit off topic but a genuine question. If everything else in society is equal but you lock a criminal up for twice as long, surely the crime rate drops. It's unfair but surely it's effective.

Edit - I thought I remembered a recent post where you said longer sentences were counter productive. Apologies if i completely dreamt that up! o0

 

[Scouse]

It's her responsibility to control the dog. It's that simple really.

I doubt there is a human alive that could control that dog if it went nuts. We'd eventually kill it if we got hold of weapons - but there'd be severe maulings all around.

The fact is - if a big enough dog goes nuts there's no controlling it until it's already done a shitload of damage.

 

[Bigmac]

I've owned 5 dogs, my sister owns another 2, all different breeds and none of them have bit anyone. It all comes down to how the owners raise them. If people are so worried about them biting people then make a law for all dogs to wear muzzles in public places.

 

[Scouse]

I've owned 5 dogs, my sister owns another 2, all different breeds and none of them have bit anyone. It all comes down to how the owners raise them. If people are so worried about them biting people then make a law for all dogs to wear muzzles in public places.

I think that's correct in most cases, but some just flip. But I'm not overly worried - the vast majority of incidents are kids getting bitten by the family pet - not strangers dogs.

 

[ileks]

I doubt there is a human alive that could control that dog if it went nuts. We'd eventually kill it if we got hold of weapons - but there'd be severe maulings all around.

The fact is - if a big enough dog goes nuts there's no controlling it until it's already done a shitload of damage.

Exactly. That's why she should have tied it up or used a muzzle.

 

[Scouse]

Exactly. That's why she should have tied it up or used a muzzle.

Massive facepalm.

It was a previously docile dog that flipped in a way she'd never seen when it saw me. When it did that she couldn't tie it up.

How exactly is she supposed to predict that?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Count every F in the following sentence;

FINISHED FILES ARE THE RESULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS

How many F's?