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Discussion in 'The Front Room' started by kirennia, Jun 10, 2007.

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  1. dysfunction

    dysfunction FH is my second home

    What you talking about? I wasn't even taking part in that discussion piece...
     
  2. Job

    Job The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse

    I would argue thats a result of liberal culture undermining society with a ludicrous zero tolerance approach to punishment.

    Kids get abused...no one is allowed to touch or question them ever.
    Liberal gets good nights sleep..problem solved.
     
  3. Gwadien

    Gwadien Uneducated Northern Cretin

    What do you define as punishment?
     
  4. Ormorof

    Ormorof FH is my second home

    "punishment" doesn't work for adults (look up one of @Scouse tirades about rehabilitation ), why would it work for kids?

    How to handle situation ofc depends on age, but like dogs keep kids busy, well fed and watered, and they arent a problem ;)
     
  5. DaGaffer

    DaGaffer Down With That Sorta Thing

    A better term would be "consequences". Problem is finding consequences that have meaning. I have a friend, a divorcee with two teenage boys, and one has been excluded from school for various twattish behaviours. The mother is obviously distraught, the boy however seems rather pleased with the situation, because he's a teenage boy and therefore a hormone-addled fuckwit. He won't see the true consequences of his behaviour for a few years yet.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  6. dysfunction

    dysfunction FH is my second home

    You have to take away something that they really care about otherwise the consequences have no effect.
     
  7. Job

    Job The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse

    Here comes the scary bit.
    Because physical punishment is too close to barbarism for the crystallised raindrop brigade, we now have to delve into pseudo shaming.

    'How do you think your victim feels?'

    Its all very clever but so totally in the shitstorm of philosophy and only gets results in the bubble of its own context.
    Exclusion..naughty schools..transfers, just entrenches the bully and strengthens the bond with their parents against the system.

    Exclusion is now off the table in the wifes school because so many girls ended up hanging around older drug dealers in the town.

    So in conclusion..yes, I fully support physical punishment...its absolute consequence and instant restorative justice to victims.
    Of course it will never hapoen because there us an entire machine dedicated to removing us from reality.
     
  8. Gwadien

    Gwadien Uneducated Northern Cretin

    Lmao.

    I'm sure you wouldn't be saying that if I punched your kid in the face.
     
  9. Scouse

    Scouse HERO! FH Subscriber

    Why jump straight for a retarded argument @Gwadien?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Gwadien

    Gwadien Uneducated Northern Cretin

    Because the argument for using violence to try to address any issue is retarded in itself :)

    I'm starting to think Job was abused as a kid that's why he's so angry.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. dysfunction

    dysfunction FH is my second home

    I've never hit my children to discipline them and they are very well behaved.
    Sometimes just a look from me will stop them if they are about to do something stupid.

    Denial of things like games or being with their friends is far more effective than beating them up
     
  12. Moriath

    Moriath I am a FH squatter

    And there lies the issue. A lot of parents have no control of wish to instil control in their kids. And have not taught them respect for others. They think they are entitled to everything so you have no recourse as a teacher or any other authority figure in society to control their behaviour.

    So in order to make the kids who want to learn able to take full advantage of class time isolating those who are uncontrollable is a good start.
     
  13. dysfunction

    dysfunction FH is my second home

    Well that
    Well that's not what I said. I don't think isolation is good as it's kind of a mental torture.

    Take things away like their free time and spend time with their friends. Get them to do community service like picking up rubbish or helping old people.

    Isolation doesn't seem right to me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Embattle

    Embattle FH is my second home

    • Informative Informative x 2
  15. Moriath

    Moriath I am a FH squatter

    But for a child who has been bought up with no boundries and not respect to authority. What are a school supposed to do? Let them ruin 30 other kids education ? Or remove the problem until the kid can be reintegrated with steps taken in isolation to try and instil some responsibility
     
  16. Job

    Job The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse

    Just edited news stories that are utterly ridiculous..but slowly you begin to realise that the bizarre becomes more normal as you listen in the context of professional presentation

    View: https://youtu.be/Vh7JyOTmfQM
     
  17. caLLous

    caLLous I am a FH squatter

    You might... everybody else can hear the cuts from a mile away.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Moriath

    Moriath I am a FH squatter

    Nah you can tell the sound is clipped. Its not a good fake.
     
  19. DaGaffer

    DaGaffer Down With That Sorta Thing

    And who's going to keep an eye on these "isolated" kids during lesson time?
     
  20. Gwadien

    Gwadien Uneducated Northern Cretin

    Schools employ ridiculous amounts of support staff that do this kinda stuff.
     
  21. Job

    Job The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse

    Its not meant to be a good fake..it just bombards you with nonsense.
     
  22. Moriath

    Moriath I am a FH squatter

    The heads secretary.
     
  23. Gwadien

    Gwadien Uneducated Northern Cretin

    Most schools use isolation, especially for the rest of the lesson, my school is currently you get 1 warning (You don't have to give a warning obvious things that kids straight up shouldn't be doing) Then they get their first punishment which is a 20 minute detention, then if they continue they're in isolation for the rest of the lesson, get 2-3 of those a week and you're in isolation for a day.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  24. Scouse

    Scouse HERO! FH Subscriber

    Struggle to see how that works tbh.

    Effective?
     
  25. Gwadien

    Gwadien Uneducated Northern Cretin

    Yeah.

    There's an expectation when the teacher says you work in silence that that's what they do, (Obviously not all the time) and follow rules such as not talking when the teacher is talking to the class etc

    If they can't do that in a classroom setting then they go and do it on their own in another room on their own.

    That's what I find amusing, people think schools are super laid back and as Job would call them 'liberal', but in reality they're far more stricter than when I was at school, albeit that my school was a bit shit but got good results because they played the system.

    Stuff like if you're late in the morning twice in a week then you get a hour detention after school.

    Expectations are a focus on many schools which wasn't really a thing in the past, and the punishments are quite severe if you don't reach certain expectations, as I've said before, the kids that don't meet those expectations are usually kids of parents that either don't care about their kids education or they have little respect for schools and think that the sun shines out of their kids arse, 9/10 when this is the case the kid is an absolute arsehole.

    It works better than hitting kids and then being surprised when they're violent in return.
     
  26. Job

    Job The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse

    They are stricter in a way, because the old domination of the class by the teacher has gone and nipping it in the bud has been lost.
    Now the teacher has no process to contain bad behaviour and simply passes it to pastoral who put in place procedures to kid glove the child into conforming.
    90% of it is amateur psychology to see what the problem is...home..friends..boyfriends..sexual confusion?

    It all sounds very sensible..the road to hell and all.
     
  27. Gwadien

    Gwadien Uneducated Northern Cretin

    It's funny how you call it amateur psychology when you're suggesting that you should respond with violence which most professional psychologist deem ineffective and having negative effects on their mental health.

    Unless you're going to dismiss psychology as a science, which frankly wouldn't be surprising.
     
  28. dysfunction

    dysfunction FH is my second home

    When you talk about isolation you just mean removing them from the classroom I assume rather than those isolation booths?
    'Hundreds spend week in school isolation'

    These look horrendous and can't be good for children and seem to be being used in an idiotic way. This is what I was talking about. It's physiological torture to use these booths on kids.
     

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