The truth!

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
what people do forget, however, is that bard is the worst CCer compared to healer and sorc:
healer = insta stun + aoe mezz combo
sorc = bolt range mez, low cast time as pure caster class, QC

additionally a hib group has 1 demezzer compared to 3 in mid and at least 2 in alb

anyway back to the original topic:
not sure if extending the group capacity to 10 would help alb a lot cause the real key to the problem is redundancy: more of the same class is better than many different classes (see healers, druids, mercs, BMs, savages, chanter/elds) - you can recover better if you lose one char cause you have the same 'functionality' in another one.

A bard won't lose the initial CC fight with a sorc tho, amnesia > sorc. But during the fight a sorc > bard with quickcast, and roots :x

imo

 

[rg-zorena]

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
what people do forget, however, is that bard is the worst CCer compared to healer and sorc:
healer = insta stun + aoe mezz combo
sorc = bolt range mez, low cast time as pure caster class, QC

additionally a hib group has 1 demezzer compared to 3 in mid and at least 2 in alb

anyway back to the original topic:
not sure if extending the group capacity to 10 would help alb a lot cause the real key to the problem is redundancy: more of the same class is better than many different classes (see healers, druids, mercs, BMs, savages, chanter/elds) - you can recover better if you lose one char cause you have the same 'functionality' in another one.

 

[halgaard]

 

[-yoda-]

Originally posted by noaim
Ever faced a savage thats not uber buffbotted?

Would people whine about savage if they were unbuffed?

you mean like everybodys whining about infils? and in the past sb / scout / zerkers / mincers ?

nerf buffbots imo and im sure zerkers/sb's and scuts would be where what they were like ages ago

 

[Hatt]

Hi zoy

 

[faderullan]

Originally posted by Jergiot
i dont think skald hits much harder over time then a mins ina assist train.

Sorry but you are wrong. A skald do loads more damage over time then a minstrel in assist trains. We are talking at least double damage here.

 

[bracken_woodman]

.

 

[old.Filip]

i mean u do see how good this is even for a caster right?

Yes sos is a good life saver for a caster vs a tank assist train ..

but vs a pbaoe cell... or caster group vs caster group the value fall's .. pet's still on speed ... ranged attack etc ...

i 100% agree that SOS is an UBER RA ... even that SOS is the best RA for tanks or vs tanks ....

but imho GP = SOS overall .... becuase GP add's to more fun ... GP makes caster groups viable .... SOS dont have the same effect

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Arnor
belomar isnt disagreeing with you afaik, hes stating facts.

Indeed. But I will fight this development myself and continue fielding "gimped" groups containing cabalists, theurgists, and wizards (all /assisting my debuffed targets ofc ).

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

Originally posted by kirennia
tbh I'm just annoyed that mythic seem to have given most of albions classes all these stupid 'extra-specs' which are pointless for proper RvR, just makes them better soloers.

Clerics smite line...support class shouldn't have a retarded damage line, okay they can solo better then a healer ......lol

Meleers can't heal and hit at the same line so why give friars a stupid line like rejuvenation apart from for solo

Another support class in the sorcerer, so why give them DD's, why not give them heals...i'll tell you what, swap DD's with friar rejuv line, THEN we're getting somewhere.

Minstrel stealth. Another grouping char so why make another damn stealth class as a third of their options :/

Armsmen being forced to double spec, again just annoying and silly.


Am all up for toys for classes but seemingly playing 'pin the tail on the donkey' do decide which classes should get what abilities in alb is silly. Since when could a jester make themselves unseen. Ffs, their sole purpose in life was TO BE NOTICED!


Silly silly programmers

about the same with much more healing !!!! that is the problem

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by faderullan
Sorry but you are wrong. A skald do loads more damage over time then a minstrel in assist trains. We are talking at least double damage here.

got any proof, or just tossing "facts" in the air?


hitting for 250-600 every 6secs vs whatever mincers do at 2 or 2.5 *shrug*

also, one miss/pbt from skald =alot less mdg etc

 

[osy]

Don't make a FG of 10 people. I'd have to pay another 2 people to help me form my one man guild, ffs.

 

[Lumikki]

Group hug?

xx

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
errrrrrrr fyi a friar hits extremely hard, the same damage as a high ranked merc/bm/zerk, yes even savage

their problem is the lack of determination

A friar doesnt hit as hard as a savage.

Not to mention with their stupid low weaponskill its almost impossible for a friar to pass a guard-bot if the guard actually knows how to play.

A friar hits hard on 'lower tier' armours and armours weak to crush-damage. In practice that is, for you, reinforced and leather from Hib.

Dont even think a friar hits as hard as a light-tank on scale or chain, because they don't. It also wouldnt be fair for a friar to hit as hard as a merc since friars also can heal, resurrect, buff, got end-regen, self-haste etc etc.

There's a reason why friars dont hit as hard as pure-tank and thats fair. The biggest problem is the fact friars got very low weaponskill because they dont gain DEX at all during levelling and most friars dont spec STAFF up to 50 (like most tanks do with their weaponline) because they got 1.5x specpoints to divide over 4 lines.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Arnor
got any proof, or just tossing "facts" in the air?


hitting for 250-600 every 6secs vs whatever mincers do at 2 or 2.5 *shrug*

also, one miss/pbt from skald =alot less mdg etc

A skald can also use same weaponsetup (shield + 1hander) as a minstrel. They dont, because they know they do more dmg with a 2hander.

It doesnt require proof for us to show you skalds hit harder then minstrels because skalds kindly proof it themselves: If they didnt do more damage with a 2-hander dont you think they would switch to Shield/Weapon setup ?

Also dont forget a skald gets more STR during levelling then a minstrel (CHA, STR, CON for a skald versus CHA,DEX,STR for a minstrel) and has access to a race with the highest STR in game (Troll; 100 STR base)

Its silly to say a minstrel does same dmg in a typical fight as a skald, it just isnt true.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
What is the problem with GP? I don't know what its like for a healer or sorc, but you can just remezz ? :>

If you get the jump, mezz 2-3 times, and after GP you cast / QC a new mezz? Just curious

GP gives immunity. Meaning when the druid presses that button everyone who was mezzed will be free AND have immunity for that CC for a minute.

You cannot remezz, in general, after a group-purge.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Arnor
if you cant beat a shammy 1v1, im sorry for you (excluding some extreme kiting from shammy)


i've been hit for 6-700 dmg on my zerker, in mp armor, fully buffed by friars.

You where in Frenzy? Doesnt Frenzy have a severe AF-penlty?

Perhaps then a spd 5.5 staff-user with a good crit can hit you for that amount, otherwise I dont believe it.

 

[faderullan]

Originally posted by Arnor
got any proof, or just tossing "facts" in the air?


hitting for 250-600 every 6secs vs whatever mincers do at 2 or 2.5 *shrug*

also, one miss/pbt from skald =alot less mdg etc

I have played both high rr skald and high rr minstrel. And i can tell you that a skald kills its target way way faster then a minstrel do.

And how can you say skald hits every 6 seconds? Ever heard of quickness, mastery of arms(skald do get this right?) and healer haste buff?

 

[old.Lethul]

Originally posted by faderullan
I have played both high rr skald and high rr minstrel. And i can tell you that a skald kills its target way way faster then a minstrel do.

And how can you say skald hits every 6 seconds? Ever heard of quickness, mastery of arms(skald do get this right?) and healer haste buff?

most skalds on exca is still frontload, shame isnt it?

 

[old.Filip]

hitting for 250-600 every 6secs vs whatever mincers do at 2 or 2.5 *shrug*

muhahahaha thats funny arnor ...

i got a gimp sarcen rr8 minser full buff'ed i NEVER hit 200+ on chain/scale....

(i know alpha does but plz dont pull him out of the bag ... he rr10+)

still any day of the week i would prefere minser >> skald in a group ... but certainly not for the dam output of the minser...

 

[ugindur]

zoyster you choosed the wrong realm mate

 

[old.Kerosene]

I'm sure this thread was about having a 10 man group

And gratz Puppetmistress on 4 replies in a row.

 

[Aloca]

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
what people do forget, however, is that bard is the worst CCer compared to healer and sorc:
healer = insta stun + aoe mezz combo
sorc = bolt range mez, low cast time as pure caster class, QC

additionally a hib group has 1 demezzer compared to 3 in mid and at least 2 in alb

anyway back to the original topic:
not sure if extending the group capacity to 10 would help alb a lot cause the real key to the problem is redundancy: more of the same class is better than many different classes (see healers, druids, mercs, BMs, savages, chanter/elds) - you can recover better if you lose one char cause you have the same 'functionality' in another one.

Agree here.

 

[Vrollo]

Originally posted by hijinxx
imo nerf infiltrators ;X


why don't albs use the infils as primary tanks i rvr groups? they can compete with savages ffs oO

Oh wait.. I'm sitting here givin' you good ideas ;X

lol you stupid, infi's can't take h2h savages. They evade more then infi's and hit way harder (when savage is played correct that is). With pa/cd I might be able to win from a h2h savage but still will be hard.

 

[Pin]

'typical' group skald would do about 70% more melee damage over time than a 'typical' minstrel, due to higher str, hybrid vs rogue ws, 2h vs 1h and ~29-34 weapon vs ~44-50 weapon.

'typical' minstrels would go a LONG way to reducing this if they drop stealth and spec more weapon, but err...

 

[Begach]

Originally posted by faderullan
Sorry but you are wrong. A skald do loads more damage over time then a minstrel in assist trains. We are talking at least double damage here.

An this has been checked without speccing a shitload of stealth to solo? How does a mincer specced to group compare to a skald? Your not comparing your average shitty 35 ish mincer melee spec to the 44 of the normal skald are you?

You guys tried forgetting the stealth, auto instr and speccing to melee(44)/instr(50)? Might be a bad idea, just a thought tbh.

Afaik mincer melee dmg table is identical to skalds (and bards). Your cookie cutter mincer just don't specc his melee to 44 like your cookie cutter skald. That being said the instr line blows battlesongs away for general group utility (***STUN***, ***ABLATIVE***). Flip side mincer cant frontload 2h like a skald.

I'd give that about even in group usefullness tbh.

Just a thought. I fight both solo all the time and find little difference, with the exception of hammer skalds (but this has bugger all to do with the class - 2h hammer v's RF etc).

PS look at mid support for your answer to why a skald assists better. Has little to do with "teh skald dmg" (ie add aug healer and him swinging that 2h hammer as fast as a 1h for one )

B.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
A skald can also use same weaponsetup (shield + 1hander) as a minstrel. They dont, because they know they do more dmg with a 2hander.
It doesnt require proof for us to show you skalds hit harder then minstrels because skalds kindly proof it themselves: If they didnt do more damage with a 2-hander dont you think they would switch to Shield/Weapon setup ?

And they could be using a 2h because they wanna frontload.

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
You where in Frenzy? Doesnt Frenzy have a severe AF-penlty?

Perhaps then a spd 5.5 staff-user with a good crit can hit you for that amount, otherwise I dont believe it.

no frenzy

high rr and medium rr friars (i dont meet friars often) no idea what speed they were using, but they still hit fucking fast bc of high quick and selfhaste.

Originally posted by faderullan
I have played both high rr skald and high rr minstrel. And i can tell you that a skald kills its target way way faster then a minstrel do.

And how can you say skald hits every 6 seconds? Ever heard of quickness, mastery of arms(skald do get this right?) and healer haste buff?

why would you want to _not_ frontload as a skald? when you have the chance I mean.

With moa 5, 20% haste and 200 quickness and a foeslayer you will hit @ 2.67 speed. (2.34 with a 5 speed wpn)
Also, with the blue healer haste only, I lost 150dmg pr styled anytime hit. When I then normally (with rr5 skald, 50+15sword, 40quick, 5.7speed wpn no haste) hit for between 250-500 (on lvl 50's)
How much you think I would hit for pr.hit with 200 quickness and 20% haste?

Also puppet, we're only talking about damage over time, you know, when haste and cap quick is nice.



And faderullan: spec your minstrel 50wpn, I reckon youll be hitting a bit harder then, but sure, spec a skald 30 wpn and ill show you a wet cellery hitting machine.


but sure, I can agree that a skald will do more dmg in an assist train on a given target, but then again minstrul>>>>>>>>>skald in utility.

 

[-evull-]

let's make all realms the same, mkay?

would be grand ^^

 

[Begach]

Originally posted by old.Filip
muhahahaha thats funny arnor ...

i got a gimp sarcen rr8 minser full buff'ed i NEVER hit 200+ on chain/scale....

(i know alpha does but plz dont pull him out of the bag ... he rr10+)

still any day of the week i would prefere minser >> skald in a group ... but certainly not for the dam output of the minser...

Nah, wusseh hits for like 170 ish dmg........gimp tbh!!!111one :swords:

B.

 

[Begach]

Originally posted by Vrollo
lol you stupid, infi's can't take h2h savages. They evade more then infi's and hit way harder (when savage is played correct that is). With pa/cd I might be able to win from a h2h savage but still will be hard.

<hijack>I solo'd a few savages. Anyone tell me why some of thier their HP's jump up and down? Bug? cheeeetahing? Lag? Wutwut?</hijack>

Doesn't half put you off yer swing tbfh

B.