Games The FM Wolves 2011/2012 challenge!

[- English -]

Because they are variables that are computed on the fly.

I imagine quite a lot of it is based on similar mathematics so RPG scoring systems but 1000s of times more complex. One variable would effect another variable and so on plus as the game develops variables change. If it was totally random someone could come up with it in their bedroom if they could come up with a UI, you would get some really stupid results though...

I am working on and off with a 20 year long game - I sort of gave up for a while and only made it to 5 years but some of the 20 year+ saves available for download are quite interesting.

But the base variables which should be computed on the fly are the same variables which determine player stats, passing, shooting etc and also include your tactics, training methods and so on
They have to be the same variables each time the game is loaded before the save..

They should be 2 identical games being played, yet you get such huge variances in results

 

[Wazzerphuk]

 

[- English -]

Its okay I feel I've said enough and you're lack of explanations is obvious that you are in denial. You clearly have a vested interest, which means your opinion is biased and could be in place to enforce a view required by your employers.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

*your

No, it was clearly explained - in-match variables. But you ignored that. Completely.

 

[Raven]

But the base variables which should be computed on the fly are the same variables which determine player stats, passing, shooting etc and also include your tactics, training methods and so on
They have to be the same variables each time the game is loaded before the save..

They should be 2 identical games being played, yet you get such huge variances in results

No because each variable will have a percentage chance of causing something to happen. A really simple example would be a striker being 1 on 1 with a keeper. The game would calculate the strikers various different stats, experience, ability, confidence, fitness, mood etc and then the same with the keeper, there would then be a % chance of the striker beating the keeper...or shooting wide, or the keeper saving it or any number of possible outcomes. Increase that to pass completion, tackles, corner kicks, free kicks and anything else that happens in a football match hundreds of times, using different sets of variables and you have a game played out, plus any tactics that the player chooses for their team. You would expect the teams/players with the higher stats to come out on top more often but due to the fact that it is based on all these thousands and thousands of different percentage (weighted chance) calculations you can and do get upsets and no two matches play out the same. Even if it was a simple 50/50 coin toss on an attempt on goal going in you would still end up with vastly different results each game.

It's as realistic as you are going to get in a simulation and is something I imagine they put a lot of work into improving on and it's not something that most people really notice but it has improved. It is harder to win with a god mode tactic (though it is still possible as demonstrated in the success people are having with Wolves in this thread)

 

[Everz]

The thing is Wazz...

Will you admit to the 'corner trick' ?

 

[Wazzerphuk]

It's not a trick, it's a known issue that there are certain problems with corners.

 

[Everz]

Indeed, something I have regularly exploited since FM07 .

Had Berra on 40+goals in FM10, was quite an issue then but has been toned down as of late.

 

[Everz]

Made it to the mid-way point, sitting 6th currently.. ahead of Man City.

Been allowed to change my start of season expectations which means I've been given an extra £10mil. A new GK, CM and AMR otw.

 

[Everz]

Also Zeli has been blooded .

 

[Killswitch]

But the base variables which should be computed on the fly are the same variables which determine player stats, passing, shooting etc and also include your tactics, training methods and so on
They have to be the same variables each time the game is loaded before the save..

They should be 2 identical games being played, yet you get such huge variances in results

Wouldn't this be something like the ideas of Chaos Theory and sensitivity to initial conditions? Let's say we start two games with the same exact database as you keep banging on about. In the first 10 seconds a player makes a pass which has a percentage chance to reach the target. If it misses, the player will (presumably) have lower morale AND the ball will be with a different player. So at that point in time we have two completely different games; in one we have a team in possession with a pumped-up midfielder and in other we have a different team in possession and the opposition have a pissed-off midfielder. Now go through 1,000,000 decision points with 1,000,000 variables (figures pulled from ass) and the game will be completely different.

Now if you played Barcelona against Macclesfield (save, play, reload) 500 times I would expect to see Barca win 99% of those games by a comfortable margin, but the scorers, the types of goals and so on will be very different game to game. If you play Barcelona against Malaga 500 times I think you'd see Barca win maybe 75%-80% of the games, but by massively differing scorelines and again with different scorers and types of goals.

If what you're saying is correct and it's completely random then surely Macc should beat Barcelona roughly 50% of the time...I presume you're not actually suggesting that though. In fact, what you're seeing where the same game can be played twice (between two competitive teams anyway) and have massively different results actually seems to suggest a far more complex underlying system. If it didn't have that complexity then Man Utd would ALWAYS beat Everton and if it was just an RNG then Man Utd and Everton would (over enough games) share the points equally.

Slow work day for the win

 

[gohan]

Its okay I feel I've said enough and you're lack of explanations is obvious that you are in denial. You clearly have a vested interest, which means your opinion is biased and could be in place to enforce a view required by your employers.

You played DAOC right? Think of it as a duel, you may be higher RR and have a better template or whatever but it all comes down to varible, a block/evade/parry followed by a stun. Does that mean there is no point having a template? All the template or RA's etc do is increase your % chance of peforming an action, it doesn't garuntee anything. I'd assume FM is simular, yes I agree that such massive variations sometimes make you think what is the fucking point? But losing 5-0 then winning 4-1 is no different form getting killed with them still on 90% hp then you killing them with 70% hp left in the next fight, you just have to play the percents and give yourself the best chance, after that it's down to luck.

 

[Everz]

Satisfaction win, especially against the Clayheads.

 

[cHodAX]

Coming to the conclusion that Augsburg isn't a one season jobbie, have sold a couple of players to allow me to revamp the training staff but with the players available it is going to be a long haul.

 

[cHodAX]

Struggling to get any loans in, the clubs all want initial fees. Free transfers are out of the question as players capable of playing at this level want a massive amounts in signing on fees or agents fees.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

You wanted a challenge!

 

[cHodAX]

Got one loan in so far, shipped a few players out, culled the wage bill some, hopefully enough to give me some cash to spend for the next transfer window.

 

[cHodAX]

6-1 home defeat against Bayern, it's going to be a long season.

 

[cHodAX]

Just managed my first win after 7 games, sat in the bottom 3 on 6 points though.

 

[cHodAX]

Managed two close wins on the bounce, my loan signing Emiliano Armenteros scoring three over 180 minutes. Lets hope he stays fit now, I might survive!!

 

[Lethul]

Thinking im gonna try Augsberg

 

[cHodAX]

Almost at mid-season, currently sat in 12th but only 4 points off the bottom 3. Luckily the board just gave me a couple of million to spend so I can bring in another couple of loans.

 

[cHodAX]

2 new signings and a loan, just beat Kaiserslauten 2-0 at home and jumped back into mid-table. Happy days!

 

[Lethul]

Was it easy to offload players?

 

[cHodAX]

Was it easy to offload players?

No, I had to be persistant as hell an drop prices heavily. Even then I only sold a couple. Re-negiotated some contracts to lower the wage bill which made a difference by the next transfer window, gave me £3 million to play with when combined with the money the player sales brought in. Really need to beef up my coaching staff next, Tony Coton has sorted goal keeping and is assistant manager again, brought in a good fitness coach and two other half decent coaches, binned the worst two that were already there and re-negoiated the contacts of those who were left. Cash is all gone now so I can't sort coaches until I start making a profit again.

 

[cHodAX]

4-2 defeat against Bayern, sizeable improvement on the last game though.

 

[Lethul]

Is the managers any use if only 1 season?

 

[cHodAX]

Is the managers any use if only 1 season?

eh?

 

[Ch3tan]

Is the managers any use if only 1 season?

I think this Ausberg challenge should be a where are you in 3 seasons type thing. League standing, financials, club stature.

 

[cHodAX]

I think this Ausberg challenge should be a where are you in 3 seasons type thing. League standing, financials, club stature.

Oh fuck don't say that, I have built my whole plan around burning the stadium down for the insurance money after last game!

Seriously, I have blown most of my cash on loans and signing on fees. Next season could be brutal if I even survive this season!