The current moderators

[tris-]

after jupitus and his double standards, i would say the modding is not altogether orthodox.

 

[islef]

Sadly enough it's a socially accepted word and no-one, not even Jupiter with his elite mod-squad can change this.

Word in question being retard.
I think that is so off mates, you and Gamah are in the wrong. Retard in a medical sense or context is socially accepted. Calling a person who is in no way mentally impaired retard, is in my world not socially accepted, but an offensive and lame statement.
Gonna make an example: If you call a person who is a nazist for a nazi he would most likely not mind, if you told me i was a nazi in a post i would surely be offended as hell and report your arse with the hope of a perm ban.:touch:

 

[Gilbride]

...My honest advice to the mods is just to cut the discussion at this point - you've said your piece, they've not listened to a decently reasoned counter-argument (ok some holes in it but mostly sound). The time to close a thread like this is when your critics have stopped listening to reason.

Jupitus has indeed made a very sensible comment, altho it's not necessary to agree with it on all levels, obviously I'm still putting up my tent in the camp that thinks the rules are far too strict, and that RvR Discussion should lighten up a whole lot on the "add whines"-ruling, because it's still fairly biased IMO (I've explained this before). Therefore there's no reason to close the discussion based on what you think is people not listening. People counterarguing the counterarguments is not people not listening, it's people not agreeing. Some might not listen, but really, I can't speak for anyone but myself.

Furthermore, comments like "the rules are the way they are, we're not listening to your opinions, just FO or stick by 'em" as have been made before, by several mods, don't really come across as sensible or decently reasoned. Nor are they really counter-arguments. Obviously we've seen a slight change in this, as discussion has carried on, in the way mods respond to the thread, and it's starting to actually produce an actual discussion, rather than just poo-flinging from two sides of the fence. Albeit, some people always have to fling poo, but really, just don't take note of it, some of it can even be funny on various levels.

 

[Septima]

Well i'm one of the users that was not going to read one more "mods suck" whine thread (but got bored at work ), cause it's getting old and boring. Mainly because the persons posting this kind of threads had personal problems with some of the mods (or looks like) and no real good point to stand off for sensible discussion.
I don't have any probs with the mods even if sometimes i would like to see more whine threads, they can be so funny sometimes, and laughing is human best medicine

 

[ebenezer]

Jupitus has indeed made a very sensible comment, altho it's not necessary to agree with it on all levels, obviously I'm still putting up my tent in the camp that thinks the rules are far too strict, and that RvR Discussion should lighten up a whole lot on the "add whines"-ruling, because it's still fairly biased IMO (I've explained this before). Therefore there's no reason to close the discussion based on what you think is people not listening. People counterarguing the counterarguments is not people not listening, it's people not agreeing. Some might not listen, but really, I can't speak for anyone but myself.

Furthermore, comments like "the rules are the way they are, we're not listening to your opinions, just FO or stick by 'em" as have been made before, by several mods, don't really come across as sensible or decently reasoned. Nor are they really counter-arguments. Obviously we've seen a slight change in this, as discussion has carried on, in the way mods respond to the thread, and it's starting to actually produce an actual discussion, rather than just poo-flinging from two sides of the fence. Albeit, some people always have to fling poo, but really, just don't take note of it, some of it can even be funny on various levels.

just quoting this as i cba to go backwards and fin the one about nubers atm
Thing is this. I been here a couple of years or so. And i know so many people that dont post here but read raid info sometimes etc.

You just cant make anything from a poll with that type of context and title. Sure you can see that 63% of the ones voting dont like tha mods. But cla for example( i know i said this like 40 times before...but it seems its time to repeat) is the biggest guild on exc...and i know a few more bigger guilds that have many with the same age average and policy, they dont wanna read here or post too much and would definitly not care about making this poll ^^ We are about 30 or more online a good day in cla...and a lot of those would prolly vote yes. So..only conclusion i can draw is that a fair amount wanna keep whining..and that wasnt exactly a secret as they make themself heard every fecking day here. Also i would like to know, is there a chance to cheat in these polls? I want an honest answer to that if anyone can get. For if thats so...iw ouldnt be suprised that people with some of the antics i see here also try and manipulate a poll like this to abuse and be able to whine some more
Anyways...have fun. I wasted my last breath on this if i dont see anything really constructive to aswer. Il save my breath for next week....when next poll comes up^^
over and out..

 

[Sharkith]

on 'retard', 'retarded' etc.

To those that post 'retard' the word in itself is not offensive but the usage can be grossly offensive and certain uses in these forums is way beyond the line. For example calling repeat greifing in RvR 'retarded' as a behaviour is not offensive. Calling someone a 'retard' for any reason is plain wrong.

Someone said that whoever complained about that should get out more. If I called someone a 'retard' in work as part of my everyday speech my career would be over. So its not the word it is the way it is used.

Some of you are superb at using potentially abusive language in a non-offensive manner I would hope that continues. In fact we should encourage inventive lanuage use. Calling someone 'a retard' is not one of those instances and really is very offensive. If you don't speak English as your first language I would excuse you, anyone else

 

[censi]

thats rubbish. same as if you call someone an egjit or a twat or a bafoon or a nutter or moron

you dont literally mean the expressions of these words. They are just adapted terms for someone being stupid.

retard is not offensive. if you find it offense dont read these forums because this word is used by a massive % of the community on a daily basis to expresses someone is a bit of an idiot etc.

this is really getting out of hand man.

 

[Sharkith]

thats rubbish. same as if you call someone an egjit or a twat or a bafoon or a nutter or moron

you dont literally mean the expressions of these words. They are just adapted terms for someone being stupid.

retard is not offensive. if you find it offense dont read these forums because this word is used by a massive % of the community on a daily basis to expresses someone is a bit of an idiot etc.

this is really getting out of hand man.

Censi - do you work at what I work at? Do you even have half a clue about me?

How can someone who has no clue about my work or what I do for a living claim that everyone I live and work with uses this term on a regular basis?

Seriously mate get a clue.

If you want to call someone an idiot use the term idiot or invent another one - retard in that context is plain out. Myabe you don't think so but for where I am standing it would cost me my job. So think about that.

 

[Puppet]

Regarding the word retard I do think its not common to use that word in a professional situation, Sharkith. But that doesnt mean its not socially accepted in some circles.

If I look at the Dutch word for it, its loosely translated as a 'een mongool' (someone who has Down syndrome, not exactly the same, but u get the drift). I would never use that word in my profession either. But in a informal atmosphere, i doubt people would look really ackward if I used the word to describe someone's way of thinking. In some situations it would be used quite abit I can imagine. I imagine its the same for the word 'retard' in the English language. It depends on what social level you are with people and age is a huge factor in it.

I think the biggest of FH people are looking at the forums as a informal forum where they can talk about the game in an informal atmosphere. I also think its abit too over-sensitive to have a problem with the words of choice of some '1337 kiddies' on this forum.


My 2 cents, as non English person

 

[islef]

thats rubbish. same as if you call someone an egjit or a twat or a bafoon or a nutter or moron

you dont literally mean the expressions of these words. They are just adapted terms for someone being stupid.

retard is not offensive. if you find it offense dont read these forums because this word is used by a massive % of the community on a daily basis to expresses someone is a bit of an idiot etc.

this is really getting out of hand man.

So if i find it offensive i should stop coming to the forums and so should everyone else who does so? From my point of view it is offensive because of the meaning that is implemented in the way it is used in these forums. I dont think i am the only one, so why should i stop using the forums instead of the people using the word getting a warn?
/edit Secondly the VAST %age of people who use it very often do it in combination with "fucking" and other superb linguistic artisteries.

 

[leviathane]

Don't let the PC brigade ruin fh aswell as every other fcking thing in this country.

 

[Gilbride]

just quoting this as i cba to go backwards and fin the one about nubers atm
Thing is this. I been here a couple of years or so. And i know so many people that dont post here but read raid info sometimes etc.

No offense, but how do these people matter in a discussion concerning the ruleset and moderation of the RvR Discussion-forum? If they're not active in this particular section, why would their opinions, and yes, everyone's capable of forming an opinion, whether they're active or not, carry the same weight, or even any weight, compared to the people who're actually posting here, and out of which some wish to see a change?

You just cant make anything from a poll with that type of context and title. Sure you can see that 63% of the ones voting dont like tha mods. But cla for example( i know i said this like 40 times before...but it seems its time to repeat) is the biggest guild on exc...and i know a few more bigger guilds that have many with the same age average and policy, they dont wanna read here or post too much and would definitly not care about making this poll ^^ We are about 30 or more online a good day in cla...and a lot of those would prolly vote yes. So..only conclusion i can draw is that a fair amount wanna keep whining..and that wasnt exactly a secret as they make themself heard every fecking day here. Also i would like to know, is there a chance to cheat in these polls? I want an honest answer to that if anyone can get. For if thats so...iw ouldnt be suprised that people with some of the antics i see here also try and manipulate a poll like this to abuse and be able to whine some more
Anyways...have fun. I wasted my last breath on this if i dont see anything really constructive to aswer. Il save my breath for next week....when next poll comes up^^
over and out..

If that was you wasting your last breath, then yea, it truly went wasted. For one, as I mentioned before, any comments I've made, and any information you can actually pull from this poll, is only relative to the RvR Discussion section. Now you just stated that most of your guild aren't active members of the RvR Discussion forum, but rather alot of people use FH as a raidcalendar and discuss things on other sections of the forum, and that's all fine and dandy. However, this makes them null and void when it comes to discussing the existance and application of rules and moderation in the RvR Discussion-forum. Noone's actually claimed that "Hey! We should be allowed to piss, moan and whatever in the grats-forum as well!" because it's not in any way related to that forumsection. Discussions about the current happenings in RvR, be they minor, as in 2 people moaning a bit about this and that happening to them in RvR or half of hibernia claiming albs are crossrealmers or whatever, then that's still RvR-related, and thus has its home in the RvR Discussion-forum, as long as they follow the rules of posting, something atleast some of us are discussing to see a less strict, and in some opinions rather silly, implementation of.

If I somehow misunderstood your post I'm sorry, but that's the way it comes across, and thus my answer. I'm not out to offend you, your guild or anyone else for that matter, it's simply the case that people who aren't active in the particular forum don't carry the same weight with their opinion. And no I'm still not saying the poll proves a whole lot, but to completely disregard it would be about as silly as to say it's a 100% accurate picture of the current situation.

As for cheating in the poll, no you can't really do that, other than creating a buttload of new accounts, which is a serious waste of work, since any user can still see who's voted what, meaning you can easily see if there's a bunch of random-generated new accountnames

 

[Gamah]

I will continue to use the word retard both on forums, in game and irl. The P.C squad can find another victim to annoy. I don't relate the word to the actual meaning, retards are actually very unlucky people who have been unfortuante with genetics, it's nothing to laugh about or mock but using the word is perfectly acceptable..and before anyone posts I am "wrong" who the hell are you to tell me what I can and can't say?

If I decide I am offended by the word "the" should it be banned from the forums..after all I am finding it offensive and others are not..just like retard.

I can't STAND the PC squad...

OH MY GOD...You called him a black man, HOW OFFENSIVE...you're supposed to say "Darker skinned human hailing from the plains of Africa but later coming to Europe under evil slavery and oppression of white capitalist pigs"

 

[Succi]

word gamah !

 

[islef]

Hmm guess ill just back down from this discussion. Im from denmark and perhaps i miss out on the "finer" subtleties of the english language.
Was not aimed at your person Gamah but i just disagreed that the word retard is socially accepted when it is used as it is in these forums.
/edit and by all means keep using it, but i think i would still be offended if you called me a retard, might just be because, i, as stated dont have english as my first language.

 

[Sharkith]

You know its a funny place when you come to tell people that a word in itself is not offensive but that some uses of it are. Amazing that I have never once corrected anyone for using it. Somehow though by simply pointing this out these very odd people jump up on their high horse and start defending themselves by even invoking the destruction of the UK in the process.

You guys are amazing. Go ahead and use the word I doubt you will get far IRL using it the way you do here. You will find that out - although I guess you already know that and this is back to your epeen stroking.

Using it like you do says enough about you I need say no more.

 

[Horner]

I love killing the English. They are so polite.

 

[Tuthmes]

Oh Hi Horny!

 

[Sollers]

To those that post 'retard' the word in itself is not offensive but the usage can be grossly offensive and certain uses in these forums is way beyond the line. For example calling repeat greifing in RvR 'retarded' as a behaviour is not offensive. Calling someone a 'retard' for any reason is plain wrong.

Someone said that whoever complained about that should get out more. If I called someone a 'retard' in work as part of my everyday speech my career would be over. So its not the word it is the way it is used.

Some of you are superb at using potentially abusive language in a non-offensive manner I would hope that continues. In fact we should encourage inventive lanuage use. Calling someone 'a retard' is not one of those instances and really is very offensive. If you don't speak English as your first language I would excuse you, anyone else

I think when people call eachother retards here emotions run up high and you can't therefor compare it to a regular day on the job. In a normal FH dialogue (non flaming ones, which are scarce yeah I know ) no-one is called a retard either. But when you are going home after work and you got some idiot who nearly rams after ignoring a red light, I think 99% of the population does revert to words like retard, mong, and the likes. In here it's the same I think, people get steamrolled or whatever and in their high state of emotion, they run here and call someone a retard. You could argue of course that people have enough time to come to their senses in the time time they are typing their flame, but I think their state of anger lasts just a little longer than typing one flame phrase.

Do correct me if I'm wrong

p.s: do not reply with 'people shouldnt get so worked up over a game' please That's a whole other discussion

 

[liloe]

Word in question being retard.
I think that is so off mates, you and Gamah are in the wrong. Retard in a medical sense or context is socially accepted. Calling a person who is in no way mentally impaired retard, is in my world not socially accepted, but an offensive and lame statement.

copied from Wikipedia:

# unable to walk properly because of a problem with one's feet or legs; crippled
# moving with pain or difficulty on account of injury, defect, or temporary obstruction of a function; as, a lame leg, arm, or muscle.
# hence: hobbling; limping; inefficient; imperfect.

Double standards anyone?

Some people here claim, that nice discussions are forbidden and colourful expressions lead to a ban. I must say I can't fully agree with that. Lots of the last discussions ended up with people not contributing to the original idea, but instead hacking on one person or another for some off-topic reason. We saw that in every grats thread (and I admit that I wasn't always an angel there), they got hardcore modded and now moved. It's the same in every relic thread, where after 3 pages minimum it's about who got the info from crossrealmers first and who has the cooler alarmclocks. That's not a discussion, that's a repetition of useless arguments.

Then on the other hand, I already said I don't always agree with the mods and I'd like to see less closing, but more editing. Lots of discussions have a valid point which just gets destroyed by the usual suspects. So why not edit that out and let the post go on? There is nothing worse than wanting to contribute to an original idea, but the post is closed due to some people who can't keep their mouth shut for once.

 

[Gamah]

I think most of this can be attributed to cutral and language differences, maybe the word retard is a lot harsher to a speaker of English as a second language?

 

[islef]

I think so ye Gamah. And liloe, I guess you sorta pwned me there. GIVF danish as the language used in these forums

 

[Tuthmes]

I think most of this can be attributed to cutral and language differences, maybe the word retard is a lot harsher to a speaker of English as a second language?

Words do not translate directly from 1 lingo to another. Different culture's use different words for simulair situations/discriptions, etc, etc. Some Lingo's have 4 differant words for something, while others use only 1 or might not even have a word for it (yes this happends). Both party's should learn the true meaning of a certain word within its context. So a retard can't be directly translated from english to another language and therefor the true meaning should be found in the english culture/dictionary/context.

 

[gohan]

Dallas - I removed your sig. I didn't like it.

Anyone else voting 'no' just fuck off then. Simple as that. Start your own board, bitch at each other on IRC or whatever. I don't care.

I'm sorely tempted to just gather up their names at the end of the poll and delete their ids, to be honest.

This bitching at the mods and baiting will stop, whether it's through choice (aka people growing up a little) or through my ban stick.

Vote away guys - have fun while you can.

SKILLZ THAT KILLZ

feel free to vote but if u vote no ill ban u all, class!

for the record i voted NO

 

[Javai]

I think most of this can be attributed to cutral and language differences, maybe the word retard is a lot harsher to a speaker of English as a second language?

No I don't think so - it is cultural for sure but not language based as I speak English as a first (and regrettably only) language and find the use of the word unacceptable as an insult or even a description of something - it is rather like the word 'gay' being used to describe something that is not good. It's a slang word that is seen as acceptable by a certain demographic group (<30 males mostly) but is certainly not acceptable in any of the social or professional circles I interact with.

For me it is a word that has the interesting property of saying more about the person using it than the person it is aimed at

 

[Sharkith]

I think most of this can be attributed to cutral and language differences, maybe the word retard is a lot harsher to a speaker of English as a second language?

yes but the cultural thing runs deeper than that Gamah. I live in England and I work there and I would never use that term. Likewise I have never heard it in public either and I can tell you I have got myself in some right messes when I am pissed. Now of course you live somewhere else and you might hear it all the time that is why I am not jumping down your throat. It is also why I have never spoken about this before but this word is offensive in common parlance. Look at Jamies post a while back - he managed to make one of the best flames I have ever seen. He got banned but I would have left it personally it was so fucking funny.

Did he use this term? No and still the post was funny as fuck an excellent example of how to flame in style.

So somehow we have this culture on this board and this word is used a lot. Personally I think you could do better/be funnier and still manage to be less offensive. At the end of the day its your choice but I for one feel strongly you let yourself down when you use it. I can explain why - and it has nothing to do with political correctness. Its your choice and feel free to be what you want to be.

 

[Gamah]

No I don't think so - it is cultural for sure but not language based as I speak English as a first (and regrettably only) language and find the use of the word unacceptable as an insult or even a description of something - it is rather like the word 'gay' being used to describe something that is not good. It's a slang word that is seen as acceptable by a certain demographic group (<30 males mostly) but is certainly not acceptable in any of the social or professional circles I interact with.

For me it is a word that has the interesting property of saying more about the person using it than the person it is aimed at

Well then you're just a P.C monster.

Sharkith

In my "circles" retard is seen as one of the lightest sayings you can say..trust me on that one :>

We grew up saying things that would make you blush.

 

[Javai]

Well then you're just a P.C monster.

In my "circles" Retard is seen as one of the lightest sayings you can say..trust me on that one :>

Or maybe I am not a < 30 male?

Could you not accept the possibility pointed out to you by more than one poster now that it is not socially acceptable in all social circles? I actually think that the PC brigade do more harm to most causes than good but that doesn't alter what is and isn't socially acceptable in the social circles.

I teach groups of 18-21 year olds everyday, I've done outreach work in some of the roughest schools in Salford I very much doubt you could make me blush, plenty have tried

 

[Straef]

So isnt it time to end it then, and close this shit?

Why would the thread need to be closed? It might not be all too interesting to you, but at least there's a proper discussion going on, lacking abuse while bringing a fair amount of opinions that are backed up with decent arguments.

 

[Gamah]

second part wasn't for you, sorry I should have quoted the other poster to make that clear.

I can and do accept its not acceptable, but it is to me so why shouldn't I use it? Its the age old question about freedoms and liberties.