Football The 2014/2015 Season Thread

[ileks]

Apologies if it's already been posted, but James Rodriguez is off to Real Madrid for €90m apparently. FFPLOL

Someone must be leaving, reminds me of Bale last year and Ozil.

 

[miri]

Isco is off apparently, poor sod he was great last year when he wasn't injured. The RM merry-go-round rolls on. ;o

 

[DaGaffer]

Someone must be leaving, reminds me of Bale last year and Ozil.

Di Maria (to United hopefully), Khedira, Isco and maybe Benzema?

 

[gunner440]

Apologies if it's already been posted, but James Rodriguez is off to Real Madrid for €90m apparently. FFPLOL

Don't think you understand FFP, do you?

If a club earns 1,000 and spends 900 - there's no problem.

It's when a club earns 10, the owner stumps up 890 and then the club spends 900 that FFP was trying to target.

€155m in the bank plus a profit of €36m last year after tax isn't exactly calling for FFP's attention. (I've not reviewed these figures, just took them from the annual report)

 

[gunner440]

Di Maria (to United hopefully), Khedira, Isco and maybe Benzema?

Word over here in Spain says Di Maria to PSG is 99% done.

 

[Billargh]

Don't think you understand FFP, do you?

If a club earns 1,000 and spends 900 - there's no problem.

It's when a club earns 10, the owner stumps up 890 and then the club spends 900 that FFP was trying to target.

€155m in the bank plus a profit of €36m last year after tax isn't exactly calling for FFP's attention. (I've not reviewed these figures, just took them from the annual report)

How dare you let facts and figures get in the way of me mocking big clubs spending big money!

 

[DaGaffer]

Word over here in Spain says Di Maria to PSG is 99% done.

Bah, just proves my point, all footballers are whores. Why would anyone play in a mickey-mouse league like France if they weren't?

 

[Raven]

When they come from a Mickey Mouse league it doesn't really matter.

Real's profit is probably questionable too, did that land issue ever get resolved? Not to mention the dodgy TV deal over there.

While they might just about fit within the weak FFP rules, they are anything but.


*and not just Spain, City have a rather questionable sponsorship deal too.

 

[ileks]

Di Maria (to United hopefully), Khedira, Isco and maybe Benzema?

Di Maria will be off for sure. Possibly Khedira too with Kroos arriving but I'm not totally convinced. I can't see Benzema leaving either.

If Di Maria goes to PSG surely Cavani would be off?

 

[gunner440]

Bah, just proves my point, all footballers are whores. Why would anyone play in a mickey-mouse league like France if they weren't?

The footballing equivalent of hygiene factors in the workplace I guess. The money may be a small part when it comes to the difference in Real Madrid and PSG but over there, he'd be treated like royalty and have a fuss made about him which is typical of the Arabic custom. AC Milan is another big one where they treat the footballers like family rather than purely as assets bought and sold every summer. By this I mean having a house ready for a new player when they arrive, complete with a chef who is versed in cooking food from their culture/country, a PA that will allow the wife / children settle in by finding schools, activities etc.

Compare that to Real Madrid where they're quite cold compared to most other clubs. They've got such an attractive brand (footballing-wise) and they can get away with paying below the odds because of the intangible value the prestige of playing for Real Madrid gives a player. Apple for instance can be used as an example. Their working conditions could be comparable to Tesco yet there are thousands queuing to work for them. They pretty much have their pick when it comes to hiring for their Genius roles.

Bear in mind that we only see the 10% (maybe not even that?) of what the footballer's do and/or go through. At some point the money becomes irrelevant and ego plays a bigger part i.e. they'll go to a team where they are treated better, or less shit depending on how you see it.

 

[miri]

When they come from a Mickey Mouse league it doesn't really matter.

I'm going to ask again because you didn't answer last time - what leads you to say La Liga is a 'mickey mouse league'? Do you not think the likes of Valencia, Bilbao, A. Madrid etc could do decently in the Premier League? Don't English teams regularly get mullered in CL qualifiers/Europa League by 'mickey mouse' teams (i.e not RM, Barca, Dortmund or Bayern I'm guessing?) from outside the Prem?

Yes, the EPL is most certainly the most competitive it has ever been right now, but given only five teams have ever won the premier league you'd have to call the EPL just as 'mickey mouse' as any other surely? I'm intrigued more than anything, because as someone who regularly watches Serie A, Bundesliga and La Liga games I'd say the quality of football is generally speaking higher outside the top (for the sake of argument) four teams in each of those leagues than it is in the EPL.

 

[Raven]

I'm going to ask again because you didn't answer last time - what leads you to say La Liga is a 'mickey mouse league'? Do you not think the likes of Valencia, Bilbao, A. Madrid etc could do decently in the Premier League? Don't English teams regularly get mullered in CL qualifiers/Europa League by 'mickey mouse' teams (i.e not RM, Barca, Dortmund or Bayern I'm guessing?) from outside the Prem?

Yes, the EPL is most certainly the most competitive it has ever been right now, but given only five teams have ever won the premier league you'd have to call the EPL just as 'mickey mouse' as any other surely? I'm intrigued more than anything, because as someone who regularly watches Serie A, Bundesliga and La Liga games I'd say the quality of football is generally speaking higher outside the top (for the sake of argument) four teams in each of those leagues than it is in the EPL.

Its not just the teams ability it is the way it is structured in favour of the top two teams, even down to the TV rights, except for the odd blip of Atletico doing well the other teams have virtually no chance of competing, the league is run like that by the Spanish FA. Yes they may well be OK games between two clubs near the bottom but overall it is a waste of time. Next season Barca and Real will be 1st and 2nd, and the season after that and the season after that. The league is a joke, its like Scotland.

In the EPL lower teams regularly beat the top teams, or give them a run for their money, it virtually never happens in La Liga. Only 5 teams may well have won the EPL but I don't think the top two have ever been 20+ points clear (I may be wrong)

...and for the record I didn't say the majority of teams are crap in La Liga, but they aren't exactly amazing either

 

[miri]

Its not just the teams ability it is the way it is structured in favour of the top two teams, even down to the TV rights, except for the odd blip of Atletico doing well the other teams have virtually no chance of competing, the league is run like that by the Spanish FA. Yes they may well be OK games between two clubs near the bottom but overall it is a waste of time. Next season Barca and Real will be 1st and 2nd, and the season after that and the season after that. The league is a joke, its like Scotland.

In the EPL lower teams regularly beat the top teams, or give them a run for their money, it virtually never happens in La Liga. Only 5 teams may well have won the EPL but I don't think the top two have ever been 20+ points clear (I may be wrong)

...and for the record I didn't say the majority of teams are crap in La Liga, but they aren't exactly amazing either

Fair. Made the wrong assumption that you meant the team's ability rather than the league's structure. La Liga, in that sense, is an abject joke for sure.

 

[DaGaffer]

Di Maria will be off for sure. Possibly Khedira too with Kroos arriving but I'm not totally convinced. I can't see Benzema leaving either.

If Di Maria goes to PSG surely Cavani would be off?

Apparently Cavani wants to go anyway because he'll never get to play in his favoured position as long as Zlatan has a hole in his arse.

 

[DaGaffer]

When they come from a Mickey Mouse league it doesn't really matter.

Real's profit is probably questionable too, did that land issue ever get resolved? Not to mention the dodgy TV deal over there.

While they might just about fit within the weak FFP rules, they are anything but.


*and not just Spain, City have a rather questionable sponsorship deal too.

Unfortunately the TV deal is an internal Spanish media issue so UEFA don't care. As long as teams can show compliance without obvious creative accounting (looking at you Citeh, PSG), UEFA isn't going to rock the boat. I'm more interested in how Barca can buy Suarez personally, aren't they banned from buying?

 

[Billargh]

Unfortunately the TV deal is an internal Spanish media issue so UEFA don't care. As long as teams can show compliance without obvious creative accounting (looking at you Citeh, PSG), UEFA isn't going to rock the boat. I'm more interested in how Barca can buy Suarez personally, aren't they banned from buying?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27126522

Laughable.

 

[ileks]

Apparently Cavani wants to go anyway because he'll never get to play in his favoured position as long as Zlatan has a hole in his arse.

He's "only" on 200,000 Euros apparently, or £160K. When you consider he pays a lot more tax over there, he could be a realistic signing for the likes of Arsenal (If Podolski actually goes), Chelsea, City or maybe United.

His goal scoring record is phenomenal. Whenever I watch him he looks average though!

 

[ileks]

Unfortunately the TV deal is an internal Spanish media issue so UEFA don't care. As long as teams can show compliance without obvious creative accounting (looking at you Citeh, PSG), UEFA isn't going to rock the boat. I'm more interested in how Barca can buy Suarez personally, aren't they banned from buying?

Yep, the club that was supposedly banned from making transfers have signed a player who's banned from football!

 

[gunner440]

When they come from a Mickey Mouse league it doesn't really matter.

Real's profit is probably questionable too, did that land issue ever get resolved? Not to mention the dodgy TV deal over there.

While they might just about fit within the weak FFP rules, they are anything but.


*and not just Spain, City have a rather questionable sponsorship deal too.

Questionable - it will always be questionable. Numbers can be interpreted in any way, shape or form but those figures were audited and is as much comfort as we are ever going to receive without being privy to the inner workings of the club.

Land Issue - I assume you mean the transfer of Las Tablas back in '98? I don't see it being an issue, people call foul play but people will always call foul play after reading the hand-picked 5 words the red-tops choose to publish as headlines. The original RM training ground / sports complex (some of the other RM teams used it as well - handball, basketball etc.) was in an area dubbed 'Ciudad Deportiva' or 'Sports City' for you English speakers. From what I recall, back then (1960's) this area was on the outskirts of Madrid and was perfectly located. Fast forward a few decades and Ciudad Deportiva found itself in the middle of Madrid as the borders were pushed out and developed. This was becoming impractical now and the club was encouraged to sell up their stake (~€500m in the end I think?) which they did and the government was to pay it in installments. This zone has since been developed and I guess you could call it Madrid's equivalent of Canary Wharf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuatro_Torres_Business_Area)

To pay off the remaining portion of the debt, the government gave RM a piece of land - Las Tablas - back in 1998 or so. However, they cocked up (this is where the foul play may be called?) and a few years later they found that the land was in actual fact, restricted (deportivo de carácter básico - basic sports usage), meaning that it could not be privatised and therefore not really useful to Real Madrid. Real Madrid appealed it and in 2011 (It took its time which is normal in Spain. The amount of paperwork here required for anything is unreal), managed to win the appeal to have this fixed. The land was revalued (by then, the financial crisis had already forced the government to cede its 'basic sports usage' stance and had developed it for residential and commercial purposes) meaning that the once barren desert land of Las Tablas was suddenly worth a few notes. The government was in no position to pay (Spain, crisis, etc.) and instead offered to compensate RM with several parcels of land which would equal the current value of Las Tablas plus interest, plus inconveniences which was around €23m. Are you going to debate it? Of course. Land value is always subjective regardless of which surveyor and criteria you use. Some value based on current and past, others focus on potential, the possibilities are endless.

The current RM training / other sports complex is in Valdebebas which is outside Madrid and close to Madrid's Barajas Airport (the airport is to Madrid what Heathrow is to London, locationwise). I reckon in a few years this cycle will repeat itself as the city expands outwards.

As for dodgy TV deal, why is it dodgy? Is it because the teams can negotiate their own deal and the free market forces allow the big and popular to earn? Assuming my command of the English language is apt, 'dodgy' would refer to something being borderline illegal, which it is not. Madrid, Barça, Atletí, Valencia, Athletic etc. are paid by the TV companies according to what they can generate.

RM's sponsorship deals can be deemed as reasonable because they are a club with a lot of (in comparison to other clubs, nationwide and internationally) history and tradition of 'winning'. This is partly the reason I think Abramovic was very anal about having to win the Champions League. The rationale is, if you beat all the best clubs, you are the best of the best and can therefore command a bigger sponsorship fee. City have now won the league a couple of times but their sponsorship deals from Etihad are quite high (considering they went from zero to hero in footballing terms in a very short space of time) and this could be stuff that could be clamped down on by FFP. If they do win the Champions League then there will be a stronger case for them to claim the sponsorship is reasonable, instead of it looking like the owners are indirectly funneling money into the club.

One of RM's huge sponsorship deals is with Adidas. Florentino pretty much called up Adidas and said: "Look, we're making Nike's biggest prize asset (Cristiano Ronaldo) put on YOUR shirts every week. Pay us more." Can't really argue with that.

 

[gunner440]

Yep, the club that was supposedly banned from making transfers have signed a player who's banned from football!

That's what I don't get. Both Barcelona and Suarez were judged as guilty after reviewing the evidence but nothing was enforced¿?

 

[Scouse]

It is terrible, that does not make it funny.

This @miri

It's just shit and terrible.

 

[soze]

That's what I don't get. Both Barcelona and Suarez were judged as guilty after reviewing the evidence but nothing was enforced¿?

Barce had the ban suspended until the January window I think. And Suarez got special permission to do a medical and transfer as they were not sure they could legally stop him.

 

[miri]

This @miri

It's just shit and terrible.

Something Liverpool fans obviously know a lot about.

 

[CorNokZ]

So we drew some eastern ukrainian team in the ChL qualifiers. We applied for the first match to be moved from Eastern Ukraine to Kiev or something. Somewhere safe at least, since their stadium is only like 250km from where the Malaysian Airlines plane was shot down. UEFA has declined and we have to go there next week. There are no commercial airlines flying in that region anymore, so we can't get there. So unless UEFA decides to move the match I guess we will lose 3-0 for not turning up

Amazing job once again UEFA!!

 

[miri]

Jesus... absolute clowns.

 

[miri]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jul/21/brazil-dunga-scolari-replacement-coach baffling.

 

[Corran]

So we drew some eastern ukrainian team in the ChL qualifiers. We applied for the first match to be moved from Eastern Ukraine to Kiev or something. Somewhere safe at least, since their stadium is only like 250km from where the Malaysian Airlines plane was shot down. UEFA has declined and we have to go there next week. There are no commercial airlines flying in that region anymore, so we can't get there. So unless UEFA decides to move the match I guess we will lose 3-0 for not turning up

Amazing job once again UEFA!!

I think that you can assume that the club can afford a private flight if they are so inclined.
And I just read that 6 Shaktar Doneskt players refused to fly back after a friendly in france... cant say i blame them (all south americans)

 

[soze]

I think that you can assume that the club can afford a private flight if they are so inclined.
And I just read that 6 Shaktar Doneskt players refused to fly back after a friendly in france... cant say i blame them (all south americans)

They could but why would any club risk it. I would fully expect Arsenal to refuse to play if they drew a team there.

 

[CorNokZ]

I think that you can assume that the club can afford a private flight if they are so inclined.
And I just read that 6 Shaktar Doneskt players refused to fly back after a friendly in france... cant say i blame them (all south americans)

Can't blame the shaktar players for not wanting to go back, but we should go ahead and charter a private plane? Please elaborate

 

[Ormorof]

Irs a no fly zone so no one can fly there private or otherwise?