Strong whine - RvR no fun for the casual player

[Clipse]

I have always noticed that people lack the effort to make things happen in DAOC.

For example, If herbal or Lac don't organise a RR, teh 998 other albs will wait for them to.

 

[Trubble]

A casual player does not log on at a specific time and joins up with his buddies to do pre-arranged stuff. A casual player is often in a small guild with his friends, or in a large PvE guild. He does not arrange events and meetings on beforehand using IRC; in fact, he would be hard-pressed to say he ever used IRC. He does not have a fixed spot in an RvR group, and when he does RvR, he either does it in a random pickup group, or with his guildies/friends, and in both cases they most likely lack vital classes. He does not have a buffbot. He hasn't spent loads of time poring over game documentation and ToA tips, nor does he troll the forums a lot. In fact, he does not have the time to do these things. He is most likely stuck on ML3, simply due to the fact he always have to log early when the raid gets to the later encounters. He does not have 10+ plats, and most of the items he wants are beyond his reach. He does have the "easy" artifacts you can do solo or with a few friends, but when he turns up at the site of a desirable artifact, it is always camped. The one time he spent some of his rare in-game time camping an artifact mob, he was not able to get an FG together in time, and so someone else steamed in and took his artifact from under his nose. He zergs. He likes the thrill of RvR, and thinks his epic is the coolest-looking armor in-game. And yes, let's face it, he is all of you in a few years.

... and in real life he pays the tax so the powergamers without a job can get wellfare.

 

[PJS]

Hm, some of you misunderstood what I said, when I say - It's not about the casual player, it's about the smart - I mean PLAY smart, not casual.. don't just sit on your ass and wait for stuff to happen, organise your time and you'll get stuff done a lot faster. Arti' xping can be broken up into hours at a time etc, only certain ML paths are really critical for RvR, if something is camped then come back another time (don't tell me it's always camped - I've seen several of the most desired arti's stay up for hours at a time, might be different for albion with its regular 1000 ppl, but doubt it). In the end the ONLY thing in toa that requires killer amounts of time is arti' xping and MLs.

I seriously dont understand this, you dont _need_ to have the best template for rvr, especially if you refer to yourself as a 'casual' player, your situational awareness, people in your group, classes etc matter as always, more than your uber toa template of doom.

So can someone explain to me what the big deal is?

What takes so much of your time in ToA ?
Why do you despise non casual-gamers so much ?
Jealousy/envy, or personal bad experience?

Frontiers will not, in its current form, injure greatly the non casual-gamer groups so much really, it will affect keep warfare a whole lot more, and only enhance rvr, imo.

Everything available in ToA is available to you all, indeed I hope to be bringing several people through most of the MLs/Arti's/xping cus they had rl obligations and were away for over 4 weeks.. a lot of people also returned recently, and they are still going to compete.. if being away for 4 weeks and you can still catchup, I really gotta wonder what all this fuss is about.

I suspect its just good old fashioned ranting.

Spoiled children expect everything in life to be handed to them on a plate by daddy. The concept of effort->reward is alien to them. They say "daddy I want this" next day it magically appears. This doesnt work with artifacts. Daddy cant snap his fingers and uber your character overnight. You want these things YOU have to put the effort in. That and this brainwashing from an unknown source that <ML10 <5 artifact <RR5 <fully capped with +caps items RvR is somehow not possible in any form.
I am currently RvRing nicely with multiple, ZERO artifact,ZERO ToA item, ML1 (but convoker which is useless in fights) so effectively ML0, RR2 yes TWO, yes COSANTOIR, uncapped non overcharged 99% armour, characters just dandily well thank you very much.
YOU DO NOT NEED ALL THESE THINGS YOU THINK YOU NEED TO RVR. ALL YOU NEED IS A BIT OF USEFUL GREY MATTER OPERATING BETWEEN THOSE TWO THINGS ON YOUR HEAD THAT HOLD YOUR SPECTACLES UP.

If some fg of uber powergamers is going round killing everything, heres a few tips.
1. Get sufficient numbers to do the job and make sure of it, shouldnt be a problem esp. in alb, say 3-4fg.
2. Organise beforehand, get a strategy etc, set a trap, bait etc
3. Gank them for a change.
4. Repeat until they f**k off somewhere else, wont take long, 1337 powergaming morons cant stand losing, they wont be back.
5. Go back to decent 'casual' fights.

Oh and everyone, GO ON SOME KEEPTAKES for a change. You might even be pleasantly surprised by the amount of rp's you can get out of it. Keeptakes are somewhat casual player friendly. KT rp > roaming rp in my book anyway.
Mid keeps are particularly good at the moment, go take one and loads of rp will come to you on a platter. The best part is 4 savage 4 seer RR10 groups cant do shit to you with a wall in the way.

 

[Clipse]

Oh and everyone, GO ON SOME KEEPTAKES for a change. You might even be pleasantly surprised by the amount of rp's you can get out of it.

Keeptakes are great for pulling RPs.

 

[Skilgannon]

And yes, let's face it, he is all of you in a few years.

So true. And he and his fellow casual gamers are the ones funding the game. If they go, so does the game.

 

[nol]

I am a casual gamer, there's no way's in hell I would have anything if Amadon didn't use my char to help out on ML raids etc. I went to emain the otherday, I got killed by shit I never seen before, it was hilarious.

As much as I would love to can't afford more then 2 hours a day(if I am very very lucky). I am RR7 ML4 have a bunch of average xp'd arti's and I am toast in the frontier unless ofcourse I get a few groups together.

Ofcourse t's fine for me to keep going back to die, I am sure that's it's a lot of fun for the same guys who get to farm me over and over again. Call me kooky, but it's not really that much fun for me, it's not a challenge, it's stupidity. I may as well jump off ligen walls repeatedly and suicide, it will save me from the stupid fucking run out to emain to die

So what is my option, move to another zone? How long do you think it takes for the n00bie farmers to arrive? not even 1 hour, soon as the regular rp fodder is not in emain, the power gamers go looking for it. I think NP made it pretty clear that they are not concerened with challenges, they are more concerned with rp's, when they went on 1 million in a week rampage.

I don't feel guilty about trying to have some fun in the game, and I quite look forward to generating the same frustration amongst power gamers that we feel as casual players.

 

[Skilgannon]

Spoiled children expect everything in life to be handed to them on a plate by daddy. The concept of effort->reward is alien to them. They say "daddy I want this" next day it magically appears. This doesnt work with artifacts. Daddy cant snap his fingers and uber your character overnight.

Wrong.

Daddy gives the pocketmoney for teh ebay.

 

[Skilgannon]

So what is my option, move to another zone? How long do you think it takes for the n00bie farmers to arrive? not even 1 hour, soon as the regular rp fodder is not in emain, the power gamers go looking for it. I think NP made it pretty clear that they are not concerened with challenges, they are more concerned with rp's, when they went on 1 million in a week rampage.

I think this is something that pisses the casual players off most. The PvP Guilds say they want a fair fight, but the reality is that they want the rps. If Emain doesn't contain easy rps, and only hard fights, they will move. If you try to have fun with a non-optimal group somewhere, fighting similar groups sooner or later the kiddies will show up. They don't like dieing to similar groups so they follow the rps.

They only come up with the we want fair fights bullshit when some groups get together and zerg the shit out of them.

 

[Belomar]

I don't feel guilty about trying to have some fun in the game, and I quite look forward to generating the same frustration amongst power gamers that we feel as casual players.

Well said. And welcome back.

 

[Tzeentch]

I am a casual gamer, there's no way's in hell I would have anything if Amadon didn't use my char to help out on ML raids etc. I went to emain the otherday, I got killed by shit I never seen before, it was hilarious.

As much as I would love to can't afford more then 2 hours a day(if I am very very lucky). I am RR7 ML4 have a bunch of average xp'd arti's and I am toast in the frontier unless ofcourse I get a few groups together.

Ofcourse t's fine for me to keep going back to die, I am sure that's it's a lot of fun for the same guys who get to farm me over and over again. Call me kooky, but it's not really that much fun for me, it's not a challenge, it's stupidity. I may as well jump off ligen walls repeatedly and suicide, it will save me from the stupid fucking run out to emain to die

So what is my option, move to another zone? How long do you think it takes for the n00bie farmers to arrive? not even 1 hour, soon as the regular rp fodder is not in emain, the power gamers go looking for it. I think NP made it pretty clear that they are not concerened with challenges, they are more concerned with rp's, when they went on 1 million in a week rampage.

I don't feel guilty about trying to have some fun in the game, and I quite look forward to generating the same frustration amongst power gamers that we feel as casual players.

well nol i cant really say its fair if people put a lot more time/effort into the mmorpg, which is character development for the most part, only to get to be put on the same effective level as you if you play 2h a day? its nonsensical.

but i dont believe talking about nolby is fair, they are by far the best guild on the server, possibly the best i've ever seen in terms of efficiency/organisation.. saying that you cant compete with them, well i think 95% of the server cant compete with them.

but there IS an astounding amount of 'casual' players out there in rvr too, running FG's, or zergs, it's not all full of uber xiit haxx0r no life swedes living on welfare tbh.

 

[nol]

well nol i cant really say its fair if people put a lot more time/effort into the mmorpg, which is character development for the most part, only to get to be put on the same effective level as you if you play 2h a day? its nonsensical.

but i dont believe talking about nolby is fair, they are by far the best guild on the server, possibly the best i've ever seen in terms of efficiency/organisation.. saying that you cant compete with them, well i think 95% of the server cant compete with them.

but there IS an astounding amount of 'casual' players out there in rvr too, running FG's, or zergs, it's not all full of uber xiit haxx0r no life swedes living on welfare tbh.

You misunderstand tzee, I don't despair my lot. My point is to make do as best you can. If that means you have zerg to have some fun, then by all means do it. I don't think casual gamers like me should have the same rewards as people who invest so much time and effort into the game, but by the same token, because you expend all that effort into this game, don't expect me to be your rp cow. If it means I have to zerg to beat you, I will.

 

[nol]

Well said. And welcome back.

nice to be back, although I am still on a shite machine and rvr is like power point slides

 

[PJS]

You misunderstand tzee, I don't despair my lot. My point is to make do as best you can. If that means you have zerg to have some fun, then by all means do it. I don't think casual gamers like me should have the same rewards as people who invest so much time and effort into the game, but by the same token, because you expend all that effort into this game, don't expect me to be your rp cow. If it means I have to zerg to beat you, I will.

You back then nol? Gifv mega hibbie zergs again

 

[PJS]

nice to be back, although I am still on a shite machine and rvr is like power point slides

sell some kruugerands then

 

[Mawinax]

A casual player does not log on at a specific time and joins up with his buddies to do pre-arranged stuff. A casual player is often in a small guild with his friends, or in a large PvE guild. He does not arrange events and meetings on beforehand using IRC; in fact, he would be hard-pressed to say he ever used IRC. He does not have a fixed spot in an RvR group, and when he does RvR, he either does it in a random pickup group, or with his guildies/friends, and in both cases they most likely lack vital classes. He does not have a buffbot. He hasn't spent loads of time poring over game documentation and ToA tips, nor does he troll the forums a lot. In fact, he does not have the time to do these things. He is most likely stuck on ML3, simply due to the fact he always have to log early when the raid gets to the later encounters. He does not have 10+ plats, and most of the items he wants are beyond his reach. He does have the "easy" artifacts you can do solo or with a few friends, but when he turns up at the site of a desirable artifact, it is always camped. The one time he spent some of his rare in-game time camping an artifact mob, he was not able to get an FG together in time, and so someone else steamed in and took his artifact from under his nose. He zergs. He likes the thrill of RvR, and thinks his epic is the coolest-looking armor in-game. And yes, let's face it, he is all of you in a few years.

Very true Belomar - I think most power gamers,- or in-betweeners like myself tend to forget this. At least some of the high RR posting here have no clue about the above and the life in DAOC of the casual gamer.

And why should they? They arnt guilded with these ppl, in alliance with these ppl, grouped with them or even talk with them. They migth have grouped with 1 of them on a Sidiraid or something equivalent 1 year ago, but thats it.

To understand the concept of RvR for a casual gamer use the following picture: Imagine U allways get zerged by 5 FGs when in your high RR group - allways. That what its like for a random grouped to get hit by a high RR group.


Maw

 

[Fana]

A casual player does not log on at a specific time and joins up with his buddies to do pre-arranged stuff. A casual player is often in a small guild with his friends, or in a large PvE guild. He does not arrange events and meetings on beforehand using IRC; in fact, he would be hard-pressed to say he ever used IRC. He does not have a fixed spot in an RvR group, and when he does RvR, he either does it in a random pickup group, or with his guildies/friends, and in both cases they most likely lack vital classes. He does not have a buffbot. He hasn't spent loads of time poring over game documentation and ToA tips, nor does he troll the forums a lot. In fact, he does not have the time to do these things. He is most likely stuck on ML3, simply due to the fact he always have to log early when the raid gets to the later encounters. He does not have 10+ plats, and most of the items he wants are beyond his reach. He does have the "easy" artifacts you can do solo or with a few friends, but when he turns up at the site of a desirable artifact, it is always camped. The one time he spent some of his rare in-game time camping an artifact mob, he was not able to get an FG together in time, and so someone else steamed in and took his artifact from under his nose. He zergs. He likes the thrill of RvR, and thinks his epic is the coolest-looking armor in-game. And yes, let's face it, he is all of you in a few years.

Very true

 

[Sheph]

The game is still what u make of it.

Never compare with people who play the game for different reasons than you or have more time / money.

 

[crispy]

Oh dear...

Have you ever given it a try?

Ive had much fun in thoose zones in smaller groups and solo, so why shouldnt other ppl be able to?

 

[Snikch]

dunno

dunno who wrote compared it before with level 35-40s beeing ganked by level 50s and having a real hard time trying to rvr. But the level 35-40s went back and leveled and came back and did way better. All it takes is just some time. The casuals adjusted their playstyle and came back with a can of whoopass.
In some time casual players will (if they want to) have the artifacts and the template all done. Its all about some determination. Now i only have 2 artifacts but i suppose my template will be done some day, no stress baby.
Adjust your playstyle and wtfpwn for the win.
I really like rvr more now than pretoa due to less people in emain and since i usually dont group thats a good thing for me. I dont win much but god it feels good when i do. And thats why i play this silly game.
love
/marthax

ps to new order : stop bolting me when i camp sauvage road it kinda hurts.

 

[yaruar]

Keeptakes are great for pulling RPs.

Apart from when it's alb keeps that get taken because they can never be bothered to come play, we have to wait till our keeps go down for a chance of a decent fight.

 

[Filip]

dont take relic's in the morning then ...

 

[yaruar]

dont take relic's in the morning then ...

I didn't.
And lets not start all this again. Really, isn't it about time you whiners just got over it......... If you want the relics just take them back already and STFU if you can that is.

Even when albs had the relics they rarely defended the outlying keeps to the extent that the mids do. It's why you've almost never had DF for a reasonable amount of time and why there is so much money floating in Midgard, because we actually take keeps and defend them.

 

[[NO]Subedai]

basically albs have honour mids dont
most mid players are little kids playing cuz its the most powerful realm and thus theyld take relics at 5am cuz thats all that matters to them.
alb wont take relics at 5am cuz we dont wanna lower ourselves to ur crappy level.

 

[Sheph]

I didn't.
And lets not start all this again. Really, isn't it about time you whiners just got over it......... If you want the relics just take them back already and STFU if you can that is.

Even when albs had the relics they rarely defended the outlying keeps to the extent that the mids do. It's why you've almost never had DF for a reasonable amount of time and why there is so much money floating in Midgard, because we actually take keeps and defend them.

And... do alarmclock raids.

 

[yaruar]

basically albs have honour mids dont
most mid players are little kids playing cuz its the most powerful realm and thus theyld take relics at 5am cuz thats all that matters to them.
alb wont take relics at 5am cuz we dont wanna lower ourselves to ur crappy level.

TBH i personally don't give a toss what you do about the relics, just stop harking on about it already.

Alarm clock raids have no honor.
Zerging raids have no honor when you outnumber the enemy.
Any form of log in raids have no honor.
Ninja raids have no honor.
Pet spam in raids has no honor.
Using RA's which give an advantage have no honour (SOS, etc)
PBAOE defence through the walls in the keep has no honor.
You want me to continue.

Really, just grow up realise this is just a game and get over it.

 

[Gordonax]

So what is my option, move to another zone? How long do you think it takes for the n00bie farmers to arrive? not even 1 hour, soon as the regular rp fodder is not in emain, the power gamers go looking for it. I think NP made it pretty clear that they are not concerened with challenges, they are more concerned with rp's, when they went on 1 million in a week rampage.

I don't feel guilty about trying to have some fun in the game, and I quite look forward to generating the same frustration amongst power gamers that we feel as casual players.

I wuv you Nol, please have my children. Or I'll have yours. I don't care.

 

[nol]

I didn't.
And lets not start all this again. Really, isn't it about time you whiners just got over it......... If you want the relics just take them back already and STFU if you can that is.

Even when albs had the relics they rarely defended the outlying keeps to the extent that the mids do. It's why you've almost never had DF for a reasonable amount of time and why there is so much money floating in Midgard, because we actually take keeps and defend them.

you are wrong, when Albs got the strength relics this last time, no one could take their keeps, if they did it wasn't occupied for very long. There defense was so good that Middies snuck in at 5am or some equally stupid time to steal relics.

At the same time, while mids had no relics, Hibernia owned every single Middy keep at one point. Mids rarely defended and all but dissappeared.

I am sure the Albs will get the relics at some point, it is the nature of this game. I am also sure that mid with sneak in on an early raid to take them back, because historically, that has always been the case.

 

[nol]

I wuv you Nol, please have my children. Or I'll have yours. I don't care.

hehehe, you're scaring me geezer

 

[yaruar]

I am sure the Albs will get the relics at some point, it is the nature of this game. I am also sure that mid with sneak in on an early raid to take them back, because historically, that has always been the case.

AFAIR hibs are the only realm that i've never seen doing an alarm clock raid, albs certainly have in the past even though they say they won't now.
Mids do however have the biggest disadvantage when it comes to relic raiding at the moment due to no get out of jail RA's and no petspam and the fact that they are seriously outnumbnered by the albs which makes for raiding very difficult unless we do it in a dishonerable way.

And yes I do count any form of log in raid as dishonerable and albs have definately been guilty of that on a lot of occasions in their relic raids.

 

[Filip]

/cheer for Nol .... i like the Nol'ish view on Daoc ....


and about the keep thing ... y mids took it in some morning (think it was 0800 CET though) becuase alb defended keeps so well ... albs defended so well that mids yelled SPY SPY SPY .... even though none of the alb leaders i talk with ever got spy info ..