Strong whine - RvR no fun for the casual player

Wabbit

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
154
For starters
1. yes Im an alb
2. yes i've been wtfpwnd about 100 times tonight "farming" 1k rp's max in 3 hours
3. yes the average fight lasted 5 sec (no joke)

What I think:
Before TOA: The difference between a RR2 and RR10 was huge, but on a good day a fg "low RR n00bs" could win a fight from a RR8+ group (if their RA's were down etc)
After TOA: the gap between the active players (RR8+ ML8+ and a few high level artifacts) is just to big to compete with RR2, ML3, non-artifacts using casual players.

Is it just me or does the gap between "active players" and "non active players" need to get smaller...for a casual player like me RvR is no fun like this...I dont mind it that I die over and over...but I want to have at least a chance during a fight...getting PBAOE'd for 900+ twice within a second is not fun :(

Coulld it be a solution to make RvR areas you cant enter if you are RR5+ or ML5+....so the n00bs like me are protected against insanly strong and balanced RR10 ML10 lvl 10 artifacts groups?

Oh and btw...I saw a fg NP or a fgh pwn 20+ albs tonight several times...so dont start posting your 'albs' zerg whines here cos atm 1fg of high RR/ML/Artifact players >>>>> 3fg normal players
 

Calo

Part of the furniture
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
2,227
Wabbit said:
For starters
1. yes Im an alb
2. yes i've been wtfpwnd about 100 times tonight "farming" 1k rp's max in 3 hours
3. yes the average fight lasted 5 sec (no joke)

What I think:
Before TOA: The difference between a RR2 and RR10 was huge, but on a good day a fg "low RR n00bs" could win a fight from a RR8+ group (if their RA's were down etc)
After TOA: the gap between the active players (RR8+ ML8+ and a few high level artifacts) is just to big to compete with RR2, ML3, non-artifacts using casual players.

Is it just me or does the gap between "active players" and "non active players" need to get smaller...for a casual player like me RvR is no fun like this...I dont mind it that I die over and over...but I want to have at least a chance during a fight...getting PBAOE'd for 900+ twice within a second is not fun :(

Coulld it be a solution to make RvR areas you cant enter if you are RR5+ or ML5+....so the n00bs like me are protected against insanly strong and balanced RR10 ML10 lvl 10 artifacts groups?

Oh and btw...I saw a fg NP or a fgh pwn 20+ albs tonight several times...so dont start posting your 'albs' zerg whines here cos atm 1fg of high RR/ML/Artifact players >>>>> 3fg normal players

good point u got there

can fully understand ppl thinking like this when u have not ennough time for play alot

would be cool tbh rr5+ and rr5- "bg's"
 

Jiggs

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
675
if something isn't fun then do something else which is.
 

Sepiritz

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
52
Yes, high/low rr bgs would be fun. :)
Maybe then the hibs wouldnt be so fit from running miles every time they want to rvr but can happily just port to the action like the rest of us.
:touch:
 

Zzang

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
398
What if a group consisted of 4 low rr 4 high rr?
 

Medde

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
169
how much wood would a woodchucker chuck if a woodchucker could chuck wood?
 

Dorin

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
2,778
just make thidranki chars cap at 2000 rp or sumit.
 

Bracken

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
2,368
Wabbit said:
I saw a fg NP or a fgh pwn 20+ albs tonight several times

Was actually starting to get funny by the end. After the 2nd wipeout of 3fg albs near atk by NP, it was decided in the cg that if anyone managed to reach amg they would morally win. :D

Sadly no one did :(
 

Filip

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
505
zzang read his post again .. i know you seek internet glory, but you should read and try to understand instead staring blind on some small chance uberfikation on a board .....


now troll go back read ... make an answer with more than 2 lines ..(could it be with no flame ?? )

Filip
 

Tzeentch

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
303
it's good imo

people who invested time/effort into the pve aspect of the game should be with more abilities at their disposable and more powerful than those who havent

its not about the 'casual' player

its about the smart player

toa gives you more things to use in a group, more abilities to command and master, more get out of jail free cards, and also the opposite, once the zergs stop making toa kits for their alts, they will rock single fg's as hard as they used to do.
 

CjkaceBM

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
126
Tzeentch said:
it's good imo

people who invested time/effort into the pve aspect of the game should be with more abilities at their disposable and more powerful than those who havent

its not about the 'casual' player

its about the smart player

toa gives you more things to use in a group, more abilities to command and master, more get out of jail free cards, and also the opposite, once the zergs stop making toa kits for their alts, they will rock single fg's as hard as they used to do.

Not about the casual player?

What do you think keeps the game up and running?

I would estimate that 75% of the server population can be classed as 'casual' players and without them there is no game.

To the original poster - this will last until patch day I would guess, then their 20% cast speed items will be nerfed into oblivion.

And remember please people - the more RPs you have, the larger your virtual penis :)
 

Fana

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
2,181
I agree somewhat with the original poster - ToA has widened the gap between casuall and dedicated gamer, no doubt about that. But its a gap you can lessen (not close completely) relatively easy, certainly easier than trying to close the realmpts gap.

You really only need a couple of key artifacts to become viable again - the rest is, just as before, up to knowledge and reactionspeed (the two components that make up daoc skill imo). And if you dont even have time to get 2 or 3 artifacts there are actually ordinary items that can substitute for them (giving you casting speed%, dmg%, attackspeed% etc), saving you the time it takes to level an artifact.

Also, try to hold on until 1.68 when the % increases are nerfed to 10% (ok not buffing and power but the rest). That should make the gap close somewhat also (less luris with 0.0001sec casting speed :) )
 

Raven

Happy Shopper Ray Mears
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
44,616
I seem to remember the guy that had made a lot of screenies of artifacts for vos had the surname "toaiskillingdaoc" or something, he was right most people simply dont have the time/resources to get all the master levels done or get the artifacts they want, artifact mobs are either not up or camped by greedy morons (thankfully i dont think its been as bad on hib) power gamers may find toa is fantastic you wont be saying that in 6 months when you are running around an empty emain only running into the exact same groups time and time again.

It seems Toa is killing the game for the casual player and frontiers will kill it for the power gamers.

Its a shame...
 

Belomar

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
5,107
Raven said:
It seems Toa is killing the game for the casual player and frontiers will kill it for the power gamers.
These two issues are not orthogonal. "Killing the power gamers" will actually make life easier for the casual players.
 

cougar

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
28
whiners claimed daoc would "die" when realmabilitys/SI/darkness falls/sc etc etc came, and it really just made it better.
 

Cuteypie

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
31
i agree with original poster, i feel bad irl cus its so easy to kill ppl when i think about it i usually can imagine the lone middleaged man sitting @ his randomquality computer trying to enjoy the game as a paladin. then some retard fuckwit come and 3 shots him with overpowered dd nukes at a castingspeed which rly gives him no chance.

Then i think about it some more and since he keeps coming back he really must want it up "2'an" so then it might aswell be me to give it to him :(
 

Jox

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
723
Wabbit said:
For starters
1. yes Im an alb
2. yes i've been wtfpwnd about 100 times tonight "farming" 1k rp's max in 3 hours
3. yes the average fight lasted 5 sec (no joke)

What I think:
Before TOA: The difference between a RR2 and RR10 was huge, but on a good day a fg "low RR n00bs" could win a fight from a RR8+ group (if their RA's were down etc)
After TOA: the gap between the active players (RR8+ ML8+ and a few high level artifacts) is just to big to compete with RR2, ML3, non-artifacts using casual players.

Is it just me or does the gap between "active players" and "non active players" need to get smaller...for a casual player like me RvR is no fun like this...I dont mind it that I die over and over...but I want to have at least a chance during a fight...getting PBAOE'd for 900+ twice within a second is not fun :(

Coulld it be a solution to make RvR areas you cant enter if you are RR5+ or ML5+....so the n00bs like me are protected against insanly strong and balanced RR10 ML10 lvl 10 artifacts groups?

Oh and btw...I saw a fg NP or a fgh pwn 20+ albs tonight several times...so dont start posting your 'albs' zerg whines here cos atm 1fg of high RR/ML/Artifact players >>>>> 3fg normal players

Well said Wabbit.

I think SI was a good expansion, didnt DEMAND people to pve for 7 years.
 

Belomar

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
5,107
Regardless of comments like Cuteypie's above, it is actually the casual players who pay this game, and without them, there would be no DAoC servers. Furthermore, while this may be hard to see from the viewpoint of certain people, there actually comes a time when everyone must make the transition from "powergamer" to casual player. It is a fact that dedicated gaming just cannot be combined with growing RL responsibilities.
 

Cuteypie

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
31
Belomar said:
Regardless of comments like Cuteypie's above, it is actually the casual players who pay this game, and without them, there would be no DAoC servers. Furthermore, while this may be hard to see from the viewpoint of certain people, there actually comes a time when everyone must make the transition from "powergamer" to casual player. It is a fact that dedicated gaming just cannot be combined with growing RL responsibilities.


that i have to disagree because daoc isnt much about actually spending time ingame, more of doing what u shall do effiecently when u do it. i play even more now when i have my irl life quite sorted and responsability for my girlfriend/household and university studies.

I also agree that it wouldnt prolly be any fun with no casual players because then there wouldnt be servers etc. but what do u expect the powergamers to do? sit down just to be kind?
 

Raven

Happy Shopper Ray Mears
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
44,616
its the nature of the beast, that people who play more etc will have more time to get the best items/master levels etc thats the way mmorpg's have always been, the problem is mythic keep moving the goal posts.
The game needs more content to stay alive, would people still be playing daoc if SI and TOA had not come around? i doubt it tbh. I dont have the time i used to have to play the game anymore, 2 or 3 hours a night is about all i can do, I have made myself a TOA SC temp that i am happy with, i have all the items and the artifacts i need. I have got all the level 50's i want, (1 from each pre SI base class) I have a legendary crafter and nearly a 2nd.
Power gamers have every right to play the way they do, people should not however try and match them if you cant it will only piss you off even more.
make your own targets and goals and meet them rather than trying to do what everyone else does.
The biggest imbalance in daoc is not savage growth rate, 2.5 spec points on infils, GP or enchanter debuffs its real life, those who have time for doac and those who dont.
 

Skilgannon

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
420
I think Mythic understand the problem, hence some of the comments in the MF interview regarding Catacombs.

The problem is that if you get something wrong, things like ToA, LA, RAs etc, it takes so long to be able to fix it. That isn't confined to Mythic, it is just the nature of the beast. Anyone who works for a software house understands just how long it can take to implement change.

As for now, I don't think it is impossible for the casual gamer. Difficult maybe, but if you are spending 3+ hours for 1k then it is time to adjust plans. Dying repeatedly for no return is a waste of time and subs (unless you are a masochist).

Do something else, go somewhere other than Emain. Don't spend hours on something that isn't fun.
 

Gordonax

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
1,095
cougar said:
whiners claimed daoc would "die" when realmabilitys/SI/darkness falls/sc etc etc came, and it really just made it better.

Cougar, once it becomes no fun for the majority of casual gamers, the game dies. It's not a question of whining, because there's no doubt that at the moment RvR is very much no fun for casual gamers. Obviously, not being one, that's not something you'd know about.

Take me for example. I've gone from RvRing two-three times a week pre-ToA to twice *in total* since ToA. And before you say "well play more, get your MLs, get loads of artifacts", I'm not going to change my entire life so it revolves around me playing a game in order to be competitive. I've got friends to see, beers to drink, and work to do.

At the moment, it just isn't worth playing much. That will change, of course, as the MLs and artifacts get "adjusted" back into the stone age.
 

stormwind

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
60
I hafto say I agree and I disagree...

2 weeks ago I would have looked at myself as what you would call a "powergamer", not that I was any good just that I played 10 or 14 hours a day, 7 days a week...

Now I have started my new job and I have about 2 hours a day, maybe 3 or 4. And, ontop of this, I dont have the weekends off.

Now, I can still join emain-groups, I managed to get 1 artefact activated before I started working but that doesnt make any difference imo, the only thing that may make a difference is that im ML5, but nothing super unless holding a keep or room from being seer...

Now I think that with no problems at all, you could just make a ToA template with non-artefacts, buy the items from merchants when they become avalible, and make a few new pieces or armour.
It will be a bit expensive, yes, but not anyway near impossible.

And about ToA increasing the gap between hardcore´s and casual´s, I think its just good. If you play the game 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, all year around, and you have _no_ benefit from that compared to someone playing it 2-4 hours a day, a few days a week and just when they feel like it, the game will more or less suck. And a game needs both casual players and hardcore players, not just one of them imo.

The problem now is that the gap is way to big, its ridicilous imo, it feels like its an early beta that hasnt been tested at all by anyone.. I mean 20% castingspeed? Geesh....

I think that if we wait for 1.69, there will still be 10% castingspeed there so yes, it will still be a bit overpowered just having a few items giving you this imo.. But the gap will close a bit.

And, if people wait to 1.68 before they judge ToA the destruction of daoc, then more people will have artefacts, good items and decent setups, the only thing stopping people here should actually be making the template which is little work, either search vn-boards/fh/random forums and look what the hardcore-players are doing, or spend an hour in a program and your set..

And I dont think, no matter how good or experienced you are, you cannot judge an expansion like toa before its been in the works for atleast 2 or 3 months more, since we have just started feeling the RvR effects, but right now we are barely scratching the surface.

For me, its not ToA that has destroyed the game, its the fact I cant spend 12 hours a day playing it :p

And francly, with eq2 and wow closing up around the corner, I think its a very good idea to put out an expansion in time for people to get used to it and it also recruits new players to the game since they see this new shiny box in the stores... all good to keep the game alive.
I think many from daoc will go to wow which will be a big dissapointment for 90%, since it will be crap, but mythic/goa needs to do whatever they can to keep bringing new life and new players to daoc before its doomed to be emptied by most of its population.
 

Bracken

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
2,368
Tzeentch said:
its about the smart player

LOL so how much free time you have to play a game determines whether you are smart or not? Hmm the irony... :rolleyes:


And yes the gap is wider now than ever before. Whether you regard this as a-good-thing or not depends on where you stand. Personally I accept that there are some people who play more, practice rvr more and so will beat me most of the time - but the game needs casual players (ie people who cant play 5+ hours per day). That's an economic reality and ALL players should be concerned about the current differences...even those who get off on expanding their already overinflated virtual egos. Because one day, if things don't change and the last of the casual players /quits, the final server will be shut down, the pixels will fade and the self-deluding "elite" will be left with nothing more than virtual memories of past virtual glories.
 

nol

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
734
Not even NP beats the zerg, unless you are stupid enough to go into the room they have camped with traps, power drains, fop, hop and assorted other stuff.

Leave them alone in the room, they soon pop out when they get bored and are easy to kill when well outnumbered.

Best of all you should see them whine in irc right after...it makes it all worthwhile :D

Seriously though, you need to rethink the game, no one can force you to go fgvfg, casual gamers are rp fodder. Team up, club together do whatever it takes to have fun, yes they will bitch and whine, should you care? no.

Exploit them like they exploit you.
 

stormwind

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
60
Bracken said:
That's an economic reality and ALL players should be concerned about the current differences...even those who get off on expanding their already overinflated virtual egos. Because one day, if things don't change and the last of the casual players /quits, the final server will be shut down, the pixels will fade and the self-deluding "elite" will be left with nothing more than virtual memories of past virtual glories.

I doubt any EU-server will be closed down due to ToA, very unlikely since toa keeps drawing new players to the game actually increasing the income of cash for goa...
However, when eq2 and wow hits the streets, people will flee daoc like rats leaving a sinking ship, somehow thinking wow will actually be a good game that wont suck.. Ive read alot about wow, watched movies etc etc and it looks like pure crap. EQ2 looks like magic, just to good to be true, but will feuture no real daoc-like pvp so not many will go there, I will maybe, just because the game itself will be so overwhelming that I might just not care about rvr/pvp, one hasto explore new things and move on, if I wouldnt want change I would still be on my MUD playing text-based rpg like I was 8 years ago.
ToA increases money-income since they 1) sell alot of expansions 2) many accounts are re-opened (more then people closing accounts) and 3) new players buy the game, open an account and play for 2-3 months, atleast.
There you go, daoc is saved until wow/eq2 release, only then can we now what will really happen to servers and the game.
What is even more amusing is that now mythic/goa have started working on a way for players to move your characters between servers. It will be finished before wow/eq2 is released. Coincidence? I doubt it.
 

Icebreaker

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,294
i agree with the original Poster.

And to Nol: Word :D

If you can't beat the high rr/ml10/full with artifacts uber gank elite wtf pwn group then just get more ppl and zerg them home. Easy :)

Nothing wrong with it!

Oh and you get some elite whine on irc if you kill them often enough. That's even more funny ;)

!!!!

..
.

Der Ice
 

cougar

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
28
Icebreaker said:
i agree with the original Poster.

And to Nol: Word :D

If you can't beat the high rr/ml10/full with artifacts uber gank elite wtf pwn group then just get more ppl and zerg them home. Easy :)

Nothing wrong with it!

Oh and you get some elite whine on irc if you kill them often enough. That's even more funny ;)

!!!!

..
.

Der Ice

okay, so you just lost all right to whine about albzerg xD
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom