Strong whine - RvR no fun for the casual player

[yaruar]

i agree with original poster, i feel bad irl cus its so easy to kill ppl when i think about it i usually can imagine the lone middleaged man sitting @ his randomquality computer trying to enjoy the game as a paladin. then some retard fuckwit come and 3 shots him with overpowered dd nukes at a castingspeed which rly gives him no chance.

Then i think about it some more and since he keeps coming back he really must want it up "2'an" so then it might aswell be me to give it to him

yeah but a lot of casual gamers have essentially given up on RvR now. The think keeping me interested in the game at the moment is the fact that TOA PvE is quite interesting and there are no goals there. The only RvR i do now is real defence or keep raids because it's almost impossible to compete as a casual gamer, especially one playing a non fotm character.
The other problem for casual gamers is that on the whole they don't have access to pl groups for their characters. If I want to lvl another toon I have to do it the hard way and spend a long time leveling ratherthan just doing a 12 hour session with a pl group. This widens the divide. The think i'm holding out for is frontiers which will increase the variety of RvR hopefully and make it possible for non FotM groups to have fun again.

 

[Event]

I doubt that "power gamers" will give up rvr that quickly if "casual" gamers quit rvr, coz in the end there will always be peeps who want to try their hand against the best from other realms.

The only thing worth considering in this debate imo is the fact that the full effect of toa on rvr hasn't been felt yet.

 

[sars]

I agree whith the original poster....

No matter how much you discuss this, the gab between high and low is Too big. Thats a sad fact.

 

[Dyss]

what dose the "casual players" whajn about?
its just like in the old days...
3 "power gamers" did run to amg kills a grp with 1yellowcon and some blue/green con emys. Did the "casual players" whajn then?

omg wtf you are higher lvl and me omg plz lol you have no life you mofo go and die irl, and btw im not haveing fun stop lvling or it will be the death to the game arrrrrrrrrrrgh stop it!!

nah don't think so, you just had to take another bite in the dust and didn't think that much more about it and maybe ported back to emain and grouped up with some other green and blue cons and gave it another shot. Or went back to lvling...
aren't it the same thing now?

 

[Wabbit]

First of all: thanks all for not turning this into a giant flame..must be one of the rare posts on FH that kept clean

To Dyss: In a way it is like the old days...what I was trying to say though is that it takes even more (almost impossible time) to close the gap now..I no longer have to make up for 15 levels (as lvl 35 I was getting killed by level 50's) but now I have to make up for 6 million RP's, 10 ML's (thats a lot of time!) and a few farmed and XP'd artifacts...time ti close that gap is to big now...so two solutions imho are:

1. Make it easier to get RR10, ML10 and level 10 artifacts
2. make the advantages of being high level smaller (liek they do next patch...lower +cap from +25% to +10%)

1 is not an option I think...but 2 is (to me at least) lets hope Frontiers expansion will help a bit with that too (by makeing is easier to get rp's)

 

[- English -]

whiners claimed daoc would "die" when realmabilitys/SI/darkness falls/sc etc etc came, and it really just made it better.

lol SC was DaOC biggest mistake, I mean wheres the PVE, In Sidi, Dartmoor etc. They used to be fun. Gathering a guild group to kill a few named. But now, its turned lazy so you just have to see a SCer :/

Bower masters bracer prime example - 2lb 3dex or whatever, used to be worth alot, people wouldnt back 5g for this now.

 

[Belomar]

Whatever, English, everyone knows that PvE and loot hunting is back in fashion with ToA.

 

[Clipse]

3 "power gamers" did run to amg kills a grp with 1yellowcon and some blue/green con emys. Did the "casual players" whajn then?

You used to run 2fg then aswell...... they're whining about you, you big nasty bully.

 

[rvn]

old days = teza soloing 40 albs

oh and its suppose to be rewarding to become rr10, its not suppore to be like the dinging L50 (alltho its quite easy nowdays for those who spend some time.)

 

[Iceflower]

that i have to disagree because daoc isnt much about actually spending time ingame, more of doing what u shall do effiecently when u do it. i play even more now when i have my irl life quite sorted and responsability for my girlfriend/household and university studies.

I recommend you save this post of yours and read it again when you have started your career, have a mortgage and maybe a kid too. You will enjoy the reading then

 

[Reloaded]

how much wood would a woodchucker chuck if a woodchucker could chuck wood?

 

[crispy]

casual players should stop whining and go hadrians or odins where we (or they, i dunno ) can compete, and let emain be for the guild and gank groups Think ppl will have so much respect for others that they wont port to hadrians just to get some fast rp's. If you win every fight in hadrians its time to move on to emain, and if you loose there, go somewhere else.

 

[Gordonax]

casual players should stop whining and go hadrians or odins where we (or they, i dunno ) can compete, and let emain be for the guild and gank groups Think ppl will have so much respect for others that they wont port to hadrians just to get some fast rp's. If you win every fight in hadrians its time to move on to emain, and if you loose there, go somewhere else.

Think the gank groups won't move to Hadrians the instant the "easy" rps are there? Think again.

 

[Bracken]

casual players should stop whining and go hadrians or odins where we (or they, i dunno ) can compete, and let emain be for the guild and gank groups Think ppl will have so much respect for others that they wont port to hadrians just to get some fast rp's. If you win every fight in hadrians its time to move on to emain, and if you loose there, go somewhere else.

Oh dear...

 

[kirennia]

casual players should stop whining and go hadrians or odins where we (or they, i dunno ) can compete, and let emain be for the guild and gank groups Think ppl will have so much respect for others that they wont port to hadrians just to get some fast rp's. If you win every fight in hadrians its time to move on to emain, and if you loose there, go somewhere else.

About as much respect as not adding on fights or not raiding relic keeps at 6am.....

 

[pacman]

whiners claimed daoc would "die" when realmabilitys/SI/darkness falls/sc etc etc came, and it really just made it better


you had me going until you wrote ".... and it really just made it better"

just started remembering the good old days and an image of creep killing albs and not dropping stealth made me think some nerfs were good

i think a lot of the guys that post something, just have it too easy and dont even remember the times when crafting stopped at adamantium, and you had to go RvR with drops from dartmoor and several other places.

Games evolve or die and Daoc is evolving, some parts are good, some are crap.

SC was a bad idea because it erased a lot of diferences. lots of ppl have the same spec and bonuses these days.

DF was a good idea that turned a bit sour. Mythic wanted DF to be an RvR dungeon if i remember well, it turned out "a farming seals to hinge dungeon" and screwed up the economy a lot.

Killing the dragon used to mean something, now it could be done everyday.
At this rate soon 2 fgs with R10 and ML10 fully SCed etc... could probably kill legion.

With SI came new lands and the dreaded necros and savages just for that if %&%& the game more.

The dungeons like SIDI and TG were nice but who wants drops from there now?

TOA killed a lot of SIDI drops. farming some scrolls is just a joke, artifact camping spawns just brings out the worst in ppl. Some stay waiting for 9 hours like ive read( some ppl are just freaks i guesss) and some have no manners and just take the mob from others.

At this rate even powergamers cant go on holidays or they will have to play very hard to catch up when they get back.

The way i see DAOC going is once mythic sees too many casual players leaving or complaining too much they start nerfing. Some nerfs hit powergamers too hard they start leaving. There can never be a balance in DAOC.

Maybe WoW wont be the game to end all games, and ppl are definitely putting too much hopes/hype on it,but it is going to steal players from DAOC and newbies when they get to a store they will have heard of warcraft and will pick WoW before DAOC. They might one day switch to DAOC but this game would have to be much better than WoW. And Blizzard are taking it slowly to make sure the smallest bugs/inbalances come out and not repeat SWG. Wont appeal to everyone but it will erode DAOC support base.

Havent seen ppl talking about alts too much here. Some ppl have from 2-8 50s now. How are you going to catch up on MLs with all of them or even just 1 or 2 + the odd artifact+ lvl it a bit?

1st was just getting the chars to 50, then it was giving them some rps/RAs, then farm more gold to make all of them fully SCed.Now its artifacts and MLs.

I remember when ppl asked in apk for R5 ppl to join groups or if not R5 at least fully SCed armour/weapons with a particular RA.

How long before ppl start asking for something like "group seeking tank with bodyguard ML for RvR group" in /as or apk?

How are the casual players going to compete with that?

I started in beta slowly then moved up to "powergamer" when release came out, then powergamer in other realms then powergamer on other chars.

All my accounts renewed in april. 1 has been renewed for 3 more months. the other 2 havent. Not going to farm artifacts for 5 50s etc..... Barely have time to improved a char.

Im now a casual player and at this rate ill be soon a retired player.

 

[Santa's little helper]

How long before ppl start asking for something like "group seeking tank with bodyguard ML for RvR group" in /as or apk?

All due respect to you, mate, the casual player, and the powergamer... but they are already shouting that at mtk ;/. "Take batdie, he's high ml!", and i don't blame 'em, i rather see them invite an high rr-dude, with bodyguard, who knows how to protect me, than a casual gamer with low rr, and no bodyguard - That's just survival. Lucky me im a pachealer, and my ML's/RRs aren't first priorities. :bazbeer:

Cougar - i have to agree with you that there have been many "daoc is going under"-theories, but you have to admit at all those encounters: SI, ToA, DF, SC, etc. have changed daoc. And not always to the better, imo. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder, etc.

Point of views, etc..

Anyway, my 2 cent...

 

[Ziva]

if something isn't fun then do something else which is.

Well done on making the most stupid reply in the whole thread. I don't see the TS say he doesn't have fun, he's just claiming a recent change of the game somewhat spoiled his fun.

My main problem is not the big gap between the hardcore power gamer and the casual player, i agree that when someone spends a lot of time he/she should get better rewarded for it. However my main "problem" is that while PvE comes in so many different flavours RvR doesn't. I mean, people can go to so many different spots for XP but where can i (beeing a casual player) go to find some RvR fights with equally levelled/masterlevelled/RR players? Nowhere since i can't avoid bumping into a high leveled player as much as this high leveled player can avoid bumping into "easy rpts" like me while i think both players would be much more satisfied with a challenging, decent fight.

I haven't read much so far about frontiers so maybe some of this is coming but i think many people would like to see BG's kind of concepts introduced next to the existing +50 RvR zones. This way people can choose which BG's they want to visit and hopefully get fair fights. There should be a zone for everyone to visit but why not create more variety and add some more special zones with special limits, requirements and also some different landshapes.

At the moment i think PvE is much better developed then RvR so i really hope this will change in the near future.

 

[Runolas]

I think ToA is a good expantion, but it should have been implemented over 2 patches. If Mythic had split up Artifacts and ML's with say 6mnd's I think that it would be less frustration for the casual player to compete in RvR.

I have not gotten any of my artifacts for my SB at the lvl I want, but 2-3 mnds from now I will. I still RvR and get ok rp when I'm out - so what is new. The sollution is ofc to duo/trio. The same goes for RvR-grp. Be4 toa a random fg could not compete with a hardcore gg and it will not now either. Best sollution is to run 2fg's to balance.

Imho Daoc is the best fantasy game out, mixing both PvE and PvP. I do not think WoW will be as good, and to be frank the cartoon feel does not tempt me at all.

 

[Tzeentch]

Hm, some of you misunderstood what I said, when I say - It's not about the casual player, it's about the smart - I mean PLAY smart, not casual.. don't just sit on your ass and wait for stuff to happen, organise your time and you'll get stuff done a lot faster. Arti' xping can be broken up into hours at a time etc, only certain ML paths are really critical for RvR, if something is camped then come back another time (don't tell me it's always camped - I've seen several of the most desired arti's stay up for hours at a time, might be different for albion with its regular 1000 ppl, but doubt it). In the end the ONLY thing in toa that requires killer amounts of time is arti' xping and MLs.

I seriously dont understand this, you dont _need_ to have the best template for rvr, especially if you refer to yourself as a 'casual' player, your situational awareness, people in your group, classes etc matter as always, more than your uber toa template of doom.

So can someone explain to me what the big deal is?

What takes so much of your time in ToA ?
Why do you despise non casual-gamers so much ?
Jealousy/envy, or personal bad experience?

Frontiers will not, in its current form, injure greatly the non casual-gamer groups so much really, it will affect keep warfare a whole lot more, and only enhance rvr, imo.

Everything available in ToA is available to you all, indeed I hope to be bringing several people through most of the MLs/Arti's/xping cus they had rl obligations and were away for over 4 weeks.. a lot of people also returned recently, and they are still going to compete.. if being away for 4 weeks and you can still catchup, I really gotta wonder what all this fuss is about.

I suspect its just good old fashioned ranting.

 

[Belomar]

What you say is true, Tzeentch. However, the treshold for doing these things and actually getting organized is raised with every expansion, and it is actually this threshold and not as much the actual activity that is stopping the casual players. If you know what I mean.

 

[Tzeentch]

not sure belomar.. i can understand it if it's for the 'real' new players who have no friends/money/guild/proper game knowledge.. they have the prospect of getting to lvl 50, a decent rr, maybe ml8 if they are a tank class, maybe ml5 if healer, getting artifacts, sc etc etc.. but current players are for the most part established, it's not that far to jump to become viable again.

 

[PJS]

For starters
1. yes Im an alb
2. yes i've been wtfpwnd about 100 times tonight "farming" 1k rp's max in 3 hours
3. yes the average fight lasted 5 sec (no joke)

What I think:
Before TOA: The difference between a RR2 and RR10 was huge, but on a good day a fg "low RR n00bs" could win a fight from a RR8+ group (if their RA's were down etc)
After TOA: the gap between the active players (RR8+ ML8+ and a few high level artifacts) is just to big to compete with RR2, ML3, non-artifacts using casual players.

Is it just me or does the gap between "active players" and "non active players" need to get smaller...for a casual player like me RvR is no fun like this...I dont mind it that I die over and over...but I want to have at least a chance during a fight...getting PBAOE'd for 900+ twice within a second is not fun

Coulld it be a solution to make RvR areas you cant enter if you are RR5+ or ML5+....so the n00bs like me are protected against insanly strong and balanced RR10 ML10 lvl 10 artifacts groups?

Oh and btw...I saw a fg NP or a fgh pwn 20+ albs tonight several times...so dont start posting your 'albs' zerg whines here cos atm 1fg of high RR/ML/Artifact players >>>>> 3fg normal players

20 alb assist train > NP,RR10,ML10,lvl 10 arti

 

[stubbe]

20 alb assist train > NP,RR10,ML10,lvl 10 arti

1 BGed SM > 20 alb assist-train

 

[PJS]

how much wood would a woodchucker chuck if a woodchucker could chuck wood?

depends if hes a ML1 convoker or not

 

[Belomar]

A casual player does not log on at a specific time and joins up with his buddies to do pre-arranged stuff. A casual player is often in a small guild with his friends, or in a large PvE guild. He does not arrange events and meetings on beforehand using IRC; in fact, he would be hard-pressed to say he ever used IRC. He does not have a fixed spot in an RvR group, and when he does RvR, he either does it in a random pickup group, or with his guildies/friends, and in both cases they most likely lack vital classes. He does not have a buffbot. He hasn't spent loads of time poring over game documentation and ToA tips, nor does he troll the forums a lot. In fact, he does not have the time to do these things. He is most likely stuck on ML3, simply due to the fact he always have to log early when the raid gets to the later encounters. He does not have 10+ plats, and most of the items he wants are beyond his reach. He does have the "easy" artifacts you can do solo or with a few friends, but when he turns up at the site of a desirable artifact, it is always camped. The one time he spent some of his rare in-game time camping an artifact mob, he was not able to get an FG together in time, and so someone else steamed in and took his artifact from under his nose. He zergs. He likes the thrill of RvR, and thinks his epic is the coolest-looking armor in-game. And yes, let's face it, he is all of you in a few years.

 

[PJS]

1 BGed SM > 20 alb assist-train

most albs are casters so no, next

 

[Filip]

in this patch the casual gamer will never have +25% stuff (speed/dam etc etc)..

becuase most of the % stuff drop in ml9 ...

and 25% cast speed is a world of a difference..

 

[Clipse]

RA's don't maketh RP's. Skillz do. Most RA's r over-hyped.
An ability to turn into Bagpuss aint gonna make u loads of RP's.

I roam With people everyday that have never been to TOA, and I make new friends in albion everyday, who turn out to be good at RvR. Believe it or not I watch Wizzies in my own group with half my RA's play much better than me.

I have always noticed that people lack the effort to make things happen in DAOC.

I think what you are really trying to say is "Albs are at the bottom of teh food chain" lol.

 

[Clipse]

in this patch the casual gamer will never have +25% stuff (speed/dam etc etc)..

becuase most of the % stuff drop in ml9 ...

and 25% cast speed is a world of a difference..

not by the end of the week.