Question State Terrorism?

[Scouse]

No but its just the way it is.

This isn't a thread about "how things are". This is a thread to decide if it's state terrorism.

I'm perfectly happy to say "yes, this is how things are - and it's state terrorism"

 

[Trem]

This isn't a thread about "how things are". This is a thread to decide if it's state terrorism.

I'm perfectly happy to say "yes, this is how things are - and it's state terrorism"

It isn't state terrorism.

There we go, wasn't that easy

 

[Ch3tan]

Trem, Throd, I love you both, but you are talking absolute bollocks. Israel has a right to defend itself, but if you are a Palastinian you would consider them the terrorists.

Both are at fault here, which side is the terrorist depends on your perspective. Hamas is the governing body in the strip, so does that mean they are guilty of state terrorism? If your answer is yes, then by definition so are Israel.

The problem is that Israel are making a bad situation worse, and closing doors to any kind of peace, temporary or permanent.

 

[Wij]

Trem, Throd, I love you both, but you are talking absolute bollocks. Israel has a right to defend itself, but if you are a Palastinian you would consider them the terrorists.

Both are at fault here, which side is the terrorist depends on your perspective. Hamas is the governing body in the strip, so does that mean they are guilty of state terrorism? If your answer is yes, then by definition so are Israel.

The problem is that Israel are making a bad situation worse, and closing doors to any kind of peace, temporary or permanent.

OK - so we're not actually talking about the original subject matter then ?

 

[Ctuchik]

OK - so we're not actually talking about the original subject matter then ?

They are, not just specifically Israel. And as far as i can see no one have said that Hamas does not deserve to be punished, but Israel isn't punishing Hamas, they are targeting the population only in the hopes they will get fed up with it and overthrow their government.

And that's just not gonna happen the way Israel are doing it. all they accomplish is more support for Hamas by the Gaza population.

I totally agree that Hamas should not be in control over Gaza, but this is not the way to get rid of them. And it may very well be to late to actually do something about it unless we want another Iraq on our hands.

As ch3t said, Israel is making a bad situation worse by doing what they do.

Basically all they do now is fuelling the fire.

Anyway, can anyone name one country that has overthrown their government after being the victim of collective punishment?

I've looked but i can't find anything.

 

[Trem]

Trem, Throd, I love you both, but you are talking absolute bollocks. Israel has a right to defend itself, but if you are a Palastinian you would consider them the terrorists.

I aren't a Palastinian though, I am a neutral and I say it the way I see it.

There is a shit load of dodgy propaganda being banded around concerning Israel, such as the Israel side Palastinian side picture that was posted in this thread.

Hamas ARE the problem and if they don't want THEIR people to be killed THEY should stop being dicks, but they won't, theres too much money to be made for them. Its their career. Much like the IRA.

 

[throdgrain]

You're right Trem.

 

[Scouse]

OK - so we're not actually talking about the original subject matter then ?

I tried for several pages to keep it on-thread - but throddy, silverhood and xane point-blank refused.

So now we're just arguing about any old bollocks

 

[Scouse]

I aren't a Palastinian though, I am a neutral and I say it the way I see it.

There is a shit load of dodgy propaganda being banded around concerning Israel, such as the Israel side Palastinian side picture that was posted in this thread.

Hamas ARE the problem and if they don't want THEIR people to be killed THEY should stop being dicks, but they won't, theres too much money to be made for them. Its their career. Much like the IRA.

Hamas managed to stop rocket attacks (as much as is possible in a box full of people who've had family members killed).

Israel didn't like this - because it removed their justification for their random killings of innocents - so moved in with the tanks...



BTW - I used to be pro-Israel. I'm now a neutral. I think Hamas are wankers. But so is the Israeli government - and they've the big sticks and should be at least attempting to take the moral high ground.

Quite the opposite tho. They're determined to make themselves look like total fuckheads - and succeding admirably IMHO.

 

[Scouse]

Ok. I've been PM'ed this by someone who's too scared to post it in case you gaylords jump all over him and call him a pro-palestinian fucktard, or something

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.


I'm not saying anything other than there's definately a good beating being handed out by Israeli soldiers there, followed possibly by an execution of an already-subdued person.

I will qualify that by saying it looks as badly edited as the Israeli's complete bollocks footage...

 

[Scouse]

"And it's all gone quiet over there"...

As we'd predicted in the PM's, following the posting of the above video this thread is now graveyard like.


Throddy? Trem? Anyone? Come tell us how you're "not interested" in this thread anymore...

 

[throdgrain]

Cant even be bothered to look at it, I dont give a fuck if every person in the Gaza Strip dies of aids tomorrow anyway, so please talk about it to someone else

 

[Scouse]

Cant even be bothered to look at it, I dont give a fuck if every person in the Gaza Strip dies of aids tomorrow anyway, so please talk about it to someone else

Yep. Exactly as predicted. You're a denier and an Israeli apologist. Probably because you've been taught to feel that way.


You "don't give a fuck" about reason m8. You don't want your beliefs challenged. You like the way you feel, so why bother learning anything different.


I, for one, am thoroughly pleased with this feeling of total vindication


/thread.

 

[Trem]

I haven't watched it either because it will just be (like you said) edited bullshit to justify Hamas terrorism. Much like (so you say) the Israeli footage on the boat where a commando was thrown overboard, although I aren't entirely sure how they edited that in, some sort of kick ass editing skills going on.

Simple fact is you don't know what happens but you defend the terrorists, I don't know but I defend the Israeli's.......or so it looks on both counts. Basically you get fed Hamas bullshit and you swallow it and I get fed tiny bits of clips about Israel and I swallow it.

Meh!

 

[Ctuchik]

Simple fact is you don't know what happens but you defend the terrorists,

Pretty sure no one is defending any terrorist here.

 

[rynnor]

Hamas ARE the problem and if they don't want THEIR people to be killed THEY should stop being dicks, but they won't, theres too much money to be made for them. Its their career. Much like the IRA.

Sorry but thats a load of crap - it isnt a comparable situation to the IRA because Israel are illegally occupying their land and have draconian restrictions on the Palastinians dailly life.

Anyone who thinks the two situations are comparable just does not understand whats going on in Gaza.

 

[Trem]

Sorry but thats a load of crap - it isnt a comparable situation to the IRA because Israel are illegally occupying their land and have draconian restrictions on the Palastinians dailly life.

Anyone who thinks the two situations are comparable just does not understand whats going on in Gaza.

Is it their land though? Have you read the history? Ignoring biblical mumbo jumbo obviously.

 

[throdgrain]

Ok, just to make you happy I've watched that video, but I cant really see anything to be honest

However, if you get on a ship that's about to run a Israeli naval blockade and your ship gets stopped by Israeli servicemen/special forces/whatever then you best look out.

This isnt the 1960s, putting flowers in soldiers rifles barrels dont work any more.

Not sure it worked then either.

 

[Chilly]

If hamas arnt the problem, why is west bank doing so well?

 

[Ctuchik]

Sorry but thats a load of crap - it isnt a comparable situation to the IRA because Israel are illegally occupying their land and have draconian restrictions on the Palastinians dailly life.

Actually i'm pretty sure they do have a legal right to blockade Gaza.

And Israel is not occupying Gaza, they have no military troops in Gaza itself, they are blockading it, big difference.

Anyway, technically it could be described as self defence. Only problem is that its the Gaza population that suffers, not Hamas as i'm pretty confident that they will have almost everything they need to survive anyway. They have to many dodgy contacts not to.

What Israel needs to do is stop trying to punish the population to get them to revolt against Hamas, because that will never happen.

On a brighter note, Israel have now allowed two neutral observers (one irish and one canadian) into their own investigation on what caused the deaths on Mavi Marmara. wonder what would happen if it turns out Israel was acting correctly...

 

[throdgrain]

On a brighter note, Israel have now allowed two neutral observers (one irish and one canadian) into their own investigation on what caused the deaths on Mavi Marmara. wonder what would happen if it turns out Israel was acting correctly...

What will happen is this lot will completely ignore it and start bleating on about something else

 

[tierk]

"Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."

 

[tierk]

"Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."

Eric Arthur Blair 1903-1950

 

[throdgrain]

Give it one more go for emphasis!

 

[DaGaffer]

Anyway, technically it could be described as self defence. Only problem is that its the Gaza population that suffers, not Hamas as i'm pretty confident that they will have almost everything they need to survive anyway. They have to many dodgy contacts not to.

Which is exactly the same as the situation in Iraq between 1991 and 2003. The "Coalition" enforced a blockade on Iraq for 12 years (!) and yet I seem to remember this was considered a better option than invasion by those of a liberal bent and was actually UN-mandated (even though lots of people went through lots of hand-wringing about dead Iraqi children, no-one really proposed Saddam-led-Iraq rejoin the community of Nations). The only difference between the two cases is that for some reason the population of Gaza are somehow seen as separate from Hamas, when in actual fact Hamas have a mandate from those people, which is more than the Iraqi people ever gave the Ba'ath party.

With examples like that in their own back yard, its hardly surprising the Israelis feel justified in their own blockade. Of course they could follow the American example and simply invade Gaza (and with a LOT more justification than the Americans had; the Iraqis hadn't attacked anyone outside their own borders in over a decade), but of course when they did that in Lebanon a few years ago everyone ranted about that as well.

So, Israel have three choices:
1. Invade Gaza.
2. Blockade Gaza.
3. Let Gaza do its own thing, allow Hamas to rearm and let the whole cycle start again (and please don't say this wouldn't happen; given Hamas' stated aims, it couldn't NOT happen).

Which is Israel's least worst option?

 

[tierk]

Give it one more go for emphasis!

Empty barrels make the most noise.

 

[throdgrain]

Nice.

 

[Scouse]

Is it their land though? Have you read the history? Ignoring biblical mumbo jumbo obviously.

What. A "land for the Jews"?

By definition that IS "biblical mumbo jumbo".

If we're ignoring what you told us to ignore - Israel is the only state outside the Vatican that's founded on a religion - and that was done last century by us.

So yes. Israel is a bullshit state. Not that I care about that.

 

[Scouse]

So, Israel have three choices

Or work towards a two-state solution. Or (short term) stop murdering children? Or paint their whole country blood-red and call it Hell


Three choices! Pfft

 

[Scouse]

Empty barrels make the most noise.

And yeah. Nice. I may use that